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Donald Lee
01-05-2009, 06:43 PM
I'm wondering how far down most of you guys can go with a flat back on the good morning stretch? With a little bit of light contract-relax stretching I can get to parallel pretty easily, but getting beyond parallel is brutal. Even then, I can barely get below parallel.

My lower back keeps on rounding at the bottom of the ATG squat, which keeps on reaggravating my lower back injury. I've resorted to pistols and RDL for lower body work until I can squat without rounding my lower back.

Gittit Shwartz
01-06-2009, 01:35 AM
I can't get far below parallel either, and I don't think many people can (except yogis).
I also feel it's more of a hamstring flexibility issue than lower back, but I may be completely off on this one.

What did you do for lb rehab? I injured my back a few months ago (not badly but enough to need a couple months off from bridging) and I found a protocol that really helped: 1-3 sets each of 50 reps GM and deadlift with a broomstick; increase reps up to 75 until that's easy, then start adding a bit of weight. Your lower back should be going up in flames. I did this every morning for 3 weeks. Forget where I found the link, I think it may have been on this forum or in Jay Cohen's blog.
Chiropractic helped also.

Jay Cohen
01-06-2009, 01:38 AM
Don;

Here you go: http://ditillo2.blogspot.com/2008/06/rehabilitating-lower-back-bill-starr.html

Gittit, glad it helped.

Donald Lee
01-06-2009, 10:01 AM
I'm familiar with Bill Starr's rehab protocol. My problem isn't so much the rehab. I've been rehabbing and having many setbacks, so I've decided to slow play it.

My problem right now is that I can't keep from rounding my lower back at the bottom of the ATG squat. If I contract my hip flexors really hard and squat slowly, I can prevent the rounding, but I don't think I should have to squat that slowly to avoid rounding.

I'm thinking my problem may still be tight hamstrings. I do make sure that I can get to at least parallel in the GM stretch before I squat though. And, I SMR my piriformis.

Which is why I'm wondering just how flexible people who ATG squat are in their hamstrings.

Dave Van Skike
01-06-2009, 10:51 AM
hamstrings are only side of the joint. hip flexors, adductors and ankle flexibility make a bigger difference for me WRT to depth.

I also don't believe in tight hamstrings as much as I believe in weak hamstrings. I tried for years to get my hamstrings to loosen up and quite pullign on my low back, was really bad when I was mMTB racing, woudl just seize up after 3-4 hours. tried all manner of stretching, RDL's fixed it in about a month.

Donald Lee
01-06-2009, 01:40 PM
I did the good morning stretch today, and I was able to get lower than I've ever gotten before. I'm thinking that it may have something to do with having done RDL's yesterday and having done 1-Leg RDL's today with a weight for the first time.

I tried air squatting right after the stretch, and I didn't really have rounding of the lower back, but I still had the butt wink.

I stretch my calves and ankles, so I know they're not the problem. I don't see how tight hip flexors or adductors could cause a rounding of the back...maybe weak hip flexors. I do have a tight right hip flexor though, which makes my right glute pretty hard to activate. I don't even know how you'd stretch your adductors. Would hugging your leg stretch your adductors?

I've noticed that the tight muscles on my body are generally weaker. Maybe, I need to stretch and strengthen my hip flexors? L-sit works the hip flexors, right? I never thought of myself having weak hip flexors, but I guess that could be the case.

Also, earlier in my rehab, the RDL really did the trick in loosening up my hamstrings as well. I think it has something to do with the fact that your CNS won't let a muscle stretch to a length in which it doesn't have strength in; hence, why people who don't perform full ROM exercises tend to feel that working out reduced their flexibility.

Dave Van Skike
01-06-2009, 04:06 PM
I dunno. I don't stretch but I do drills that open the hip first, lunges forward and to the side, face the wall squats then rdl's. this always seems to help.

plus, like i said. i don't believe in tight anything. I belive things get weak.

the body gets used to certain positions and starts to like the muscles in those shortened positions...when you move the joint out of it's comfort zone and into an ROM where it's not comfy.... boom. "tightness" the movement goes all wrong and things are not fluid. this is a nuerological problem, not a muscle problem per se. same thing with a screwed up joint, knee, shoulder whatever. you move it to where it iimpinges or abrades or is loos and the muscles reflexivley tighten and then atrophy....this is a lovely cycle that ends athletic carreers and makes life unpleasant.

this is de facto "weakness"....so I don't stretch I try to strengthen the musculature over a greater and greater ROM. so when I'm squattign "wrong" the thing that fixes it is to do it "right"

squatting
overhead squatting
front squatting
split squats,
rdls
dl's
swings

Donald Lee
01-06-2009, 07:01 PM
I dunno. I don't stretch but I do drills that open the hip first, lunges forward and to the side, face the wall squats then rdl's. this always seems to help.

plus, like i said. i don't believe in tight anything. I belive things get weak.

the body gets used to certain positions and starts to like the muscles in those shortened positions...when you move the joint out of it's comfort zone and into an ROM where it's not comfy.... boom. "tightness" the movement goes all wrong and things are not fluid. this is a nuerological problem, not a muscle problem per se. same thing with a screwed up joint, knee, shoulder whatever. you move it to where it iimpinges or abrades or is loos and the muscles reflexivley tighten and then atrophy....this is a lovely cycle that ends athletic carreers and makes life unpleasant.

this is de facto "weakness"....so I don't stretch I try to strengthen the musculature over a greater and greater ROM. so when I'm squattign "wrong" the thing that fixes it is to do it "right"

squatting
overhead squatting
front squatting
split squats,
rdls
dl's
swings

HMMM...could tight abductors contribute to a butt wink? I do leg swings, but other than that, I don't do any work on the abductors. I don't do the cossack or side lunge or the splits or anything. I guess I'll try that and see if that alleviates the problem.

Donald Lee
01-07-2009, 12:14 AM
hamstrings are only side of the joint. hip flexors, adductors and ankle flexibility make a bigger difference for me WRT to depth.

I also don't believe in tight hamstrings as much as I believe in weak hamstrings. I tried for years to get my hamstrings to loosen up and quite pullign on my low back, was really bad when I was mMTB racing, woudl just seize up after 3-4 hours. tried all manner of stretching, RDL's fixed it in about a month.

I mixed up adductors with abductors. In my last post, I meant that I would try stretching my adductors. What you're saying makes sense now. I thought you meant abductors.