PDA

View Full Version : Mid-Hang different from RDL position?


Brian Lawyer
01-07-2009, 10:36 AM
Greg Everett prescribes a lot of exercises done from Mid-hang. I wanted to clarify were the Mid-hang position is. Generally I start a snatch, CJ, or variation of those lifts either from the floor or start from just above knees in what I would call an RDL hang position.

So my question is the "mid-hang" coach Everett refers to an even higher position than the RDL hang position I described above.

I looked under exercises for a video of an exercise that starts at Mid-hang but didn't see any.....

Thanks Guys!!

Matt Edwards
01-07-2009, 10:45 AM
I would assume it's about mid-thigh. Along with the hang variations, he also prescribes high hang. So I'm assuming mid-hang is the median of the two.

Greg Everett
01-07-2009, 10:51 AM
Brian -

Mid-thigh. This is the point at which you should be reaching as much knee extension as you'll get prior to the scoop occurring (i.e. there will be only a slight knee bend at this point). If you're starting lifts from just above the knee or at the knee, you should not be in a position that resembles an RDL at the same point - you need to have more bend the knees and a more upright posture.

Garrett Smith
01-07-2009, 10:58 AM
I believe mid-hang is the starting position for the second half of this two-position clean video:
http://www.cathletics.com/exercises/videos/2posClean.mov

Brian Lawyer
01-07-2009, 11:13 AM
Thanks Matt, Greg, and Garrett.

So do you start from high hang, then go to mid-hang, then Clean/Snatch, thus getting some stretch reflex....or do you start at mid-hang, then Clean/Snatch? I used to do the former but then my coach told me those were wrong and started having me do hang cleans/snatches by starting from above my knee caps. It is probably not a strict RDL position, as Gregg noted above, but basically just starting from the second pull, which I thought starts after the bar clears your knee.

I could be wrong about that. I think first pull is to clear bar of knees, then second pull is full extension from there.

Brian Lawyer
01-07-2009, 11:17 AM
added signature. Just checkin to see if it works.

Greg Everett
01-07-2009, 11:44 AM
Brian -

Anything below high-hang, set the start position a moment before starting the lift. For high-hang, just down & up (i.e. dip and go) in the Burgener terminology.

The scoop does begin right as the bar passes the knees for many lifters - but ideally it shouldn't start until the bar is a bit higher - around mid-thigh. Try to find some video of Stefan Botev for a good example of this.

Brian Lawyer
01-19-2009, 03:24 PM
Brian -

Anything below high-hang, set the start position a moment before starting the lift. For high-hang, just down & up (i.e. dip and go) in the Burgener terminology.

The scoop does begin right as the bar passes the knees for many lifters - but ideally it shouldn't start until the bar is a bit higher - around mid-thigh. Try to find some video of Stefan Botev for a good example of this.

Hey Coach,
I came back to revisit this thread based on some discussions I have been having with Derek Maffett over on my 1/14/09 digital coaching thread. Now that we have clarified the "mid-hang" position versus the "hang"position, which I had previously referred to as RDL position, would the "Jump/Shrug" cue occur at the mid-hang position?

I ask because my coach doesn't seem to care about bar positioning for the "jump/shrug" cue. He is more focused on vertical shins or he has even mentioned shins beyond vertical...

Thanks,

Brian DeGennaro
01-19-2009, 04:15 PM
Brian, I think your coach is concerned about you keeping the weight back on your heels for the best drive and positioning. The scoop will just happen even more naturally if your weight is towards the heel. You won't have the tendency of rising onto your heels early or jumping forward.

Greg Everett
01-20-2009, 11:24 AM
Hey Coach,
would the "Jump/Shrug" cue occur at the mid-hang position?

yes. just remember that the shrug is pulling you down after the jump has lifted the bar up.

Brian Lawyer
01-21-2009, 08:31 AM
yes. just remember that the shrug is pulling you down after the jump has lifted the bar up.

Thanks Coach. Another question, same topic. In your book, you make a point about practicing transitioning from Hang to Mid-hang position, and vice versa. Is this done via hips or via knees?

Also, could you elaborate on the importance of transitioning between the two positions. It appears to be just a matter of inches....well I guess depending on how long your legs are.

Greg Everett
01-21-2009, 09:06 AM
knees, and that's the point and the importance - it's very common for athletes to begin scooping immediately after the bar passes the knees rather than waiting until it's a bit higher on the thighs. this means less hamstring tension, and consequently less snap in the 2nd pull.

Brian Lawyer
01-21-2009, 09:48 AM
knees, and that's the point and the importance - it's very common for athletes to begin scooping immediately after the bar passes the knees rather than waiting until it's a bit higher on the thighs. this means less hamstring tension, and consequently less snap in the 2nd pull.

That is what I thought. I think this is also the point my O'Lifting coach has been trying to ingrain in me. He has a different coaching style, where as he is not real concerned with where the bar is (i.e. hang or mid-hang), but he is really wanting me to get that full knee extension prior to jump/shrug. He is looking at my shins to see that they are vertical or beyond vertical prior to the jump/shrug.

So in theory, aren't my shins supposed to be approximately vertical as the bar passes the knees (i.e. hang) and therefore at mid-hang I am reaching the beyond vertical point with my shoulders well out in front of the bar.

Also, just so we are on same page with different terminologies, is your reference to the "scoop" the same as my reference to the "jump/shrug" cue....

Greg Everett
01-21-2009, 07:24 PM
Well... You don't want full knee extension. Kind of close, but not full.

Regarding shin angle.... maybe close to vertical, but I don't find that a helpful marker for 2 reasons. One, if it's a little off vertical, are you really going to be able to tell? Two, I'm not sure if the shins should be perfectly vertical at that point - probably a little forward of vertical actually.

The scoop is the forward movement of the knees under the bar during the double knee bend. It would occur at that "jump" moment, but it's not really the same thing.

Brian Lawyer
01-22-2009, 11:12 AM
Thanks Greg. This thread has been very helpful to me. Between you and my coach I think I am putting two and two together and getting a really good first pull. I'm extending through my knees to the mid-hang position, holding the bar in real tight with my lats, at which point my shoulders are well forward of the bar, then I hit my jump/scoop/shrug and boom weight pops up. Good things happen when you set yourself up with the correct first pull!!

Well... You don't want full knee extension. Kind of close, but not full.
I know what you mean.

The scoop is the forward movement of the knees under the bar during the double knee bend. It would occur at that "jump" moment, but it's not really the same thing.
Got it.