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Jim Wenson
01-18-2009, 11:11 AM
I am in kind of dire straights right now. All of the sudden, I can not eat vegetables without becoming extremely bloated in my abdomen, which in turn is knock you down painful. The pain typically occurs within a half hour of eating the vegetables. It is centrally located in my abdomen. I was wondering if anyone here has ever heard or come across anyone with this type of problem.

A little back ground. I am 28 year old male, 215lbs, 25-30% fat. I completely believe following IF and Paleo, but am just starting to do it consistently. I have always battled my weight and have craved sugar and carbs my whole life. For the past two years I have been CrossFitting, PM'ing, Oly Lifting, and eating better. I have never gotten eating down consistently. I have been able to eat the veggies in the past. I decided to make a life commitment and change my eating and life style. I haven't had any sugar or non-paleo foods for about 12 days. About day 7, I couldn't eat vegetables anymore. I became extremely bloated. I can eat my meals without bloat and only minor pain if they consist of fat and protein only. I also checked, I am in ketosis. Don't know if that means anything. Also, doing a 15-17 hour daily fast. I drink a a ton of water and always have, thirsty constantly. No soda's, coffee or tea either. I take fish oil and just started ZMA. I also started drinking some kefir after the pain started. I have never been allergic to anything before. It's almost like a switch was flipped.

My diet is based on .7-1g of protein per lean body mass. I then keep my carbs below 100g a day, all from veggies and fruit. Fat compromises the rest of my daily caloric intake.

I am currently doing a 24 hour fast. Thanks MOD for the advice!

If nothing comes to mind, thanks for taking the time to think about.

Garrett Smith
01-18-2009, 01:07 PM
I have a patient with ulcerative colitis with a similar intolerance to vegetables.

Her trigger is stress, how have your stress levels been lately?

Jim Wenson
01-18-2009, 01:38 PM
I have a patient with ulcerative colitis with a similar intolerance to vegetables.

Her trigger is stress, how have your stress levels been lately?

Hard to say. I am wound pretty tight naturally and tend to stress normally. Trying to work on it. But, I couldn't say that it is at any greater level than normal.

Garrett Smith
01-19-2009, 08:08 AM
Is it both raw and cooked vegetables?

Jim Wenson
01-19-2009, 08:51 AM
Is it both raw and cooked vegetables?

Yes.

Garrett Smith
01-19-2009, 09:50 AM
Decent article here: http://www.realage.com/GICenter/Articles.aspx?aid=10409

Trying Beano tablets might be a good thing to try first.

What about starchy stuff, like sweet potatoes?

Jim Wenson
01-19-2009, 10:29 AM
Decent article here: http://www.realage.com/GICenter/Articles.aspx?aid=10409

Trying Beano tablets might be a good thing to try first.

What about starchy stuff, like sweet potatoes?

Good article, definitely things to think about. I tried Beano and it seemed to help, then like a switch was flipped, and it no longer provided the digestion help.

I haven't had an starchy stuff, in quite awhile, so I don't know. Yesterday, I didn't eat any veggies and was fine. Maybe a very low grade pain was present.

Garrett, thank you so much for your time and responses. I really appreciate them.

Garrett Smith
01-19-2009, 12:04 PM
Give me (and others) the timeline again. When you went strict on the diet plan, when the veggie intolerance started, when you started (or were already doing) Beano and when it stopped working, and any other things you have tried that have helped or made it worse.

Do any other things with fiber in them (nuts, seeds, etc.) cause aggravation?

Jim Wenson
01-19-2009, 12:16 PM
Give me (and others) the timeline again. When you went strict on the diet plan, when the veggie intolerance started, when you started (or were already doing) Beano and when it stopped working, and any other things you have tried that have helped or made it worse.

Do any other things with fiber in them (nuts, seeds, etc.) cause aggravation?

I have a little issue with the bloating before I decided to make a commitment to my diet. I had been taking beano for a while on and off again. No problems. Eat as many veggies as I wanted. Then on the 5th, I took to my diet seriously (no more cheating at all). On the 13th, the extreme bloating occurred even with beano. Since the 13th, if I eat veggies, I bloat.

The only things that have helped, is to not eat veggies. Protein and Fat seem to be fine. I have been also drinking kefir, but this was after the pain started. I tolerate the kefir just fine. I really haven't tried anything else. I didn't introduce anything new to the diet after going strict. Eating the same stuff as before, but just not cheating at all. I would typically eat healthy all week and then fall of on the weekends.

Garrett Smith
01-19-2009, 12:44 PM
Have you yet tried eating well-overcooked (mushy) veggies?

Any bloating with any fruit? What about the nuts/seeds?

I'm trying to help figure out whether it is the fiber or something else.

Jim Wenson
01-19-2009, 12:50 PM
Have you yet tried eating well-overcooked (mushy) veggies?

Any bloating with any fruit? What about the nuts/seeds?

I'm trying to help figure out whether it is the fiber or something else.

I am not sure about the fruit or the nuts. I don't think I have any issues with either. I will eat nuts today, without any veggies, and I will try fruit tomorrow. I have been eating almonds, and I don't think they have given me any problems. I will double check though.

Haven't tried over-cooked veggies.

Garrett Smith
01-19-2009, 01:19 PM
If you've been eating almonds, then you're likely okay with the nuts.

Definitely try the fruit (whole) and report back.

Then try a small amount of very overcooked veggies and watch for reactions. The extra cooking may really help.

In the meantime, you may want to take a multivitamin to cover your bases.

Jim Wenson
01-19-2009, 01:35 PM
I just had 1/2 ounce of almonds and almost immediately my stomach started hurting. Not nearly as bad as veggies, but much smaller dose. I had been eating almonds before with no problems.

Can you develop an intolerance to fiber this quick?

Edit: An hour later, the almonds have caused some pretty bad pain/cramps and bloating.

Garrett Smith
01-19-2009, 04:05 PM
Sounds a lot like IBS to me:
http://www.digitalnaturopath.com/cond/C21201.html

You'll want to get this checked out by a good gastro doc sometime, preferably by one who treats the cause and doesn't just push meds to suppress symptoms. Many gastro docs that my patients have previously seen never even address diet or say that diet has nothing to do with their symptoms.

You may also want to get a stool test for parasites. I use www.parasitetesting.com .

Jim Wenson
01-20-2009, 09:21 AM
From the description of IBS on your link sure hits the nail on the head...

"...are often fiber-intolerant and have a tendency to like fats because they produce a feeling of well being. They often respond well, even dramatically so, to a multiple digestive enzyme formula."

It's just surprising that it sprung up on me so quick. Especially the nut intolerance. Which triggered a memory that my brother had developed a peanut intolerance a while ago. So I called him up and I told him what I was going through and he said it sounded much like the same thing he went through when he started to go "clean" in his diet. I thought it was just peanuts he had a problem with, but turns out it was a bunch of foods with fiber. He wasn't sure how long it lasted, but is now able to eat anything in any amount that he wants.

I guess, I am going to wait it out for a period of time. If nothing improves, I will see a GI dr. I just will avoid the things that cause problems. I just had a 5th an apple, and we'll see how I react. My brother said fruit didn't bother him.

Garrett thank you so much for all the time you spent helping me. I really appreciate it. It was nice to get some solid advice and guidance.

Garrett Smith
01-20-2009, 10:07 AM
Jim,
Glad I could help.

You may want to treat this situation like weight training--build up slowly with the fiber. Your gut may just be having a tough time with a sharp increase in fiber and needs some time to adjust. Definitely talk in depth with your brother about this, if his went away, that's likely a good sign for you.

Best of luck.

Mike ODonnell
01-20-2009, 03:30 PM
Fiber is over-rated. I have PLENTY of bowel movements with limited veggies and fruit intake. Take some digestive enzymes and enjoy your meat and fat. :)

Jim Wenson
01-20-2009, 09:07 PM
Fiber is over-rated. I have PLENTY of bowel movements with limited veggies and fruit intake. Take some digestive enzymes and enjoy your meat and fat. :)

I actually picked some up today! I definitely don't mind missing out on the fruit/veggies. Meat and Fat are my friends! BACON!! Might miss the apples for awhile.

Garrett Smith
01-21-2009, 05:12 AM
See if unsweetened apple sauce works, as a start. Not too much.

Jim Wenson
01-22-2009, 09:22 PM
See if unsweetened apple sauce works, as a start. Not too much.

Don't worry, I am not in an hurry to experience that pain again. I think we might have some apple sauce laying around, I will give that a shot.

Jim Wenson
02-16-2009, 09:47 AM
Well, I wanted to just check in and give you guys an update. I have been staying away from veggies and nuts. I was able to eat apples without any problems. Stomach has been fine with this type of arrangement.

I recently added a few almonds back in without any problems, as long as it's only about 3 or 4 at a time. So, I am slowly recovering. Haven't been brave enough to try some veggies, but will here soon.

I am going to write this off as a withdrawl from sugar and grians. Body freaked out.

I also, have lost about 22 pounds since I started. It has been mostly fat as my strength has not decreased. I am coming out on the other end of the switching from burning sugar to fat and things are definitely improving.

Thanks for all your help.

Garrett Smith
02-16-2009, 09:47 PM
Be vigilant with what you know you need to do.

Good job taking care of yourself.

Jane Michel
02-16-2009, 11:28 PM
Happy ending! Good on you Jim for being able to stay away from veggies and nuts and grats on dropping the 22 pounds of mostly fat.

I feel privileged to be on the same boards as Garrett and MOD and the other experts at PM.

Garrett Smith
02-17-2009, 04:34 AM
*blush*

Thanks Alicia. If only more of my patients at least did the exercise thing, like nearly everybody here my life would be so much easier.

I much prefer to "tweak" athletic folks than to try to overhaul poor-diet couch potatoes.

Amanda Mitchell
03-05-2009, 01:19 PM
I have this same problem with veggies when eaten on large amounts. I typically have 5-7 "servings" at one meal. I have tried the beano and it works sometimes, but I refrain from taking it daily if possible. I have tried probiotics, but saw no significant benefit; would digestive enzymes be the way to go?

I hate that I can feel so bad after eating something so healthy. And I love my veggies, so I've just been dealing with it...

Garrett Smith
03-05-2009, 03:05 PM
All veggies, or particular ones? Do you eat certain veggies on a very consistent basis? Does raw vs. cooked make any difference?

Amanda Mitchell
03-05-2009, 04:05 PM
Cooked or raw, doesn't matter. Notice it more with eggplant than anything else, but it happens with everything. I eat a large raw salad every night with red leaf lettuce, tomato, cucumber, mushroom, red onion and artichoke. I eat cooked veggies with my protein and fat in addition to the raw salad. I cut broccoli about a year ago because the bloating was pretty significant, but then I would eat an entire head of broccoli in one sitting :)

Garrett Smith
03-05-2009, 04:29 PM
Try no nightshades. No tomatoes, potatoes, peppers, eggplant, paprika. My guess is that one or more of these is present in nearly every meal you eat.

Eggplant and potato have the most solanine and alpha-chaconine, notorious for causing nausea and vomiting.

Eating the same foods every day is a sure-fire way to create food sensitivities/allergies, bloating is one of the "nicer" early warning signs.

So, I'd start with avoiding the nightshades for a month and not eating any particular veggie more than 3-4 times in a week. The best approach might involve you not eating any of your "regular" veggies for a month, and finding substitutes now.

Amanda Mitchell
03-09-2009, 02:17 PM
Try no nightshades. No tomatoes, potatoes, peppers, eggplant, paprika. My guess is that one or more of these is present in nearly every meal you eat.

Eggplant and potato have the most solanine and alpha-chaconine, notorious for causing nausea and vomiting.

Eating the same foods every day is a sure-fire way to create food sensitivities/allergies, bloating is one of the "nicer" early warning signs.

So, I'd start with avoiding the nightshades for a month and not eating any particular veggie more than 3-4 times in a week. The best approach might involve you not eating any of your "regular" veggies for a month, and finding substitutes now.

Tomatoes may be the hardest on that list to give up, but I'll try it for one month and see how I feel. I am a creature of habit, but always willing to try new things. On with my journey to vegetable variety...