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Bill Ennis
02-10-2009, 07:28 AM
Hi Everyone ;
I've been following a mostly Paleo diet the past month with IF 1-2X per week . I feel good , lifts are improving . My question pertains to the amount of saturated fat intake on a daily basis . My macronutrient %s are ~35 % fat +/- , ~35% protein +/- , with the remainder (minority ) as carb .
Can anyone tell me what is recommended for grams/day of sat fat or % of daily cals from sat fat .
Thanks.
Bill

Grissim Connery
02-10-2009, 04:39 PM
cordain has some articles stating that, in relation to the fat profiles of wild game that hunters would try to eat, it's nearly a 50/50 of saturated to unsaturated fat, with a really low % of PUFA to MUFA. so it's like equal amounts of sat to MUFA. he gave more exact numbers, but that's pretty much the gist of it.

Mike ODonnell
02-10-2009, 07:45 PM
Robb Wolf also has some good info on it: http://robbwolf.com/?p=87

Darryl Shaw
02-11-2009, 05:36 AM
According to Cordains research saturated fats account for 10 - 15% of energy in the average hunter-gatherer diet. Obviously as fats provide 9 kcal/g this is quite a small amount of fat in terms of g/day but as long as you're following Cordains advice to stick to sensible portion sizes, choose the leanest cuts of meat and remove all visible fat you don't really need to worry about it.

http://www.thepaleodiet.com/articles/CRC%20Chapter%202006a.pdf

Bill Ennis
02-11-2009, 04:13 PM
Thanks alot for all the info guys , I appreciate it.
Bill

Scott Kustes
02-12-2009, 07:57 AM
If you're eating grass-fed or wild meats, don't even be concerned about it. I eat grass-fed beef and lamb and the fatty cuts are the most delicious...lots of vitamins in that fat. Other good saturated fats sources are coconut oil, palm oil, pastured lard, and grass-fed butter.

Dave Ogilbee
02-12-2009, 09:21 AM
I've been recently looking into buying more grass-fed meats, butter and eggs, shying away from the typical corn-fed products at the supermarket. Might be a bit away from the topic, if so I appologize, but is "free-range organic" basically saying grass fed or are they just stating that they don't cage/confine their animals? Any tips on particularly what to look for when purchasing these kinds of things?

John Kilbane
02-12-2009, 09:41 AM
Speaking of Sat. fat, is ghee considered healthy like grass-fed butter? Anyone ever tried it?

Arien Malec
02-12-2009, 10:09 AM
Speaking of Sat. fat, is ghee considered healthy like grass-fed butter? Anyone ever tried it?

Ghee is just clarified browned butter, so it's going to depend on the source material.

Grissim Connery
02-12-2009, 10:18 AM
always take the skeptic approach. if it doesn't say grass-fed, then it's not grass-fed.

Arien Malec
02-12-2009, 10:48 AM
According to Cordains research saturated fats account for 10 - 15% of energy in the average hunter-gatherer diet.

Reading the article (thanks for the reference, BTW) depending on the time of year (e.g., eating animals fattened for winter), "typical" hunter-gathers consumed up to nearly 18% saturated fat.

That amount can be higher seasonally for hunter-gather societies who ate higher than the median range in animal. Cordain's table inexplicably stops at the 65% of animal derived nutrients range, despite that (55-65%) being the median, not the upper range of nutrient ratios, but includes data well below the median.

Unless I'm reading this wrong, the 10-15% saturated fat calculation is biased toward the lower end of what typical h-g societies ate.

It should also be noted that the Masai eat and inhabitants of the Tokulau ate staggering amounts of saturated fat with no ill effects.

Bill Ennis
02-12-2009, 07:18 PM
Darryl;
Thanks for posting that book chapter ; it was very interesting. What book is that out of ?
Bill

Darryl Shaw
02-13-2009, 05:31 AM
Speaking of Sat. fat, is ghee considered healthy like grass-fed butter? Anyone ever tried it?

As ghee and butter are both dairy foods which were unavailable to stone age hunter-gatherers they aren't included in the paleo diet.

Darryl Shaw
02-13-2009, 06:21 AM
Reading the article (thanks for the reference, BTW) depending on the time of year (e.g., eating animals fattened for winter), "typical" hunter-gathers consumed up to nearly 18% saturated fat.

That amount can be higher seasonally for hunter-gather societies who ate higher than the median range in animal. Cordain's table inexplicably stops at the 65% of animal derived nutrients range, despite that (55-65%) being the median, not the upper range of nutrient ratios, but includes data well below the median.

Unless I'm reading this wrong, the 10-15% saturated fat calculation is biased toward the lower end of what typical h-g societies ate.

It should also be noted that the Masai eat and inhabitants of the Tokulau ate staggering amounts of saturated fat with no ill effects.

I suck at math so I may be reading it wrong too but I think the reason the % saturated fat is biased towards the lower end of the scale is because he excluded data where the protein content of the diet was over 35.1% of energy. In the discusion at the end of the article though Cordain states "The present data suggests that the normal dietary intakes of saturated fatty acids that conditioned our species genome likely fell between 10 to 15% of total energy.".

I just did a quick search to see if I could clarify things and found Cordains response to Katharine Milton's editorial article (Link (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/71/3/665)) where she highlighted some flaws in Cordain's Ethnographic Atlas data. -

Within the nutritional community, it is common knowledge that the quantitative and qualitative lipid composition of domesticated meats is vastly different from that found in wild game. Game meat contains lower proportions of fat, especially saturated fat, than does meat from grain-fed domesticated animals, even on a whole-carcass basis (5). Nowhere in our article did we recommend that people should eat high-fat, domesticated livestock. Our take-home messages were that hunter-gatherer diets were higher in protein and lower in carbohydrate than are current Western diets or dietary guidelines and that this macronutrient balance may provide insight into potentially therapeutic diets. If any implication were to be inferred, it would be that dietary fat should emulate fat sources found in game meat and organs (high in n-3 fats, low in n-6 fats, and high in monounsaturated fats).
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Again, we do not recommend increases in intakes of domesticated animal fat, only of lean protein from lean animals, preferably protein that may also contain significant amounts of n-3 and monounsaturated fat such as that found in game meat. Consumption of low-fat dietary protein at the expense of carbohydrate is the nutritional pattern that is consistent with our species' evolutionary history and represents a viable dietary option for improving health and well-being in modern people. Further research is needed before this dietary pattern can be recommended without reservation, particularly in subjects with preexisting kidney disease.

Macronutrient estimations in hunter-gatherer diets. (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/72/6/1589)

Also on page 85 of The Paleo Diet Cordain states -

With the Paleo Diet - unlike the average American diet - at least half of your fats are healthful monounsaturated fats. The other half is evenly split betwen saturated and polyunsaturated fats. There are no synthetic trans fats. And the crucial omega 6 to omega 3 fat ratio is about 2 to 1 which greatly reduces your risk of heart disease.

Darryl Shaw
02-13-2009, 06:40 AM
Darryl;
Thanks for posting that book chapter ; it was very interesting. What book is that out of ?
Bill

I'm not sure where the article was originally published but I found it on Cordains site - http://www.thepaleodiet.com/published_research/. You can find other articles on this subject at www.paleodiet.com but if you're looking for paleo diet books you should get Deadly Harvest by Geoff Bond and The Paleo Diet by Loren Cordain.

Bill Ennis
02-14-2009, 09:50 AM
Thanks again.
Bill

Scott Kustes
02-16-2009, 09:28 AM
As ghee and butter are both dairy foods which were unavailable to stone age hunter-gatherers they aren't included in the paleo diet.
But nonetheless, grass-fed versions of both are just fine.