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Christian Mendoza
02-10-2009, 08:28 AM
Please advise...seems to be a real challenge to complete the second pull.
Here's the latest, dated 2.8.09
http://www.youtube.com/djkaus1980
Much appreciated!!

Brian Lawyer
02-10-2009, 09:26 AM
Christian, I personally thought those looked pretty good! Why don't you throw some weight on the bar, then we can really see your deficiencies. I think you are sandbagging a little at 40kg. :)

Get yourself up to a decent working weight my friend. I found for myself, 155lbs is a good working weight. Of course, my form isn't perfect every rep with this weight, but when I am properly warmed up I rarely miss at 155lbs. Therefore, it is a good working weight to practice form with.

glennpendlay
02-10-2009, 10:58 AM
i second what he said, looks good but its hard to tell too much with a weight that looks to be less than 50% of your max

Christian Mendoza
02-10-2009, 12:33 PM
I wish I could say that was less than 50% of my max. I'm sure with proper technique in place, I could definitely hit 80...The most I've snatched was 75, which, I may or may not be able to do that now. I know I can get 70. Between the videos taken in November and February, is when I've been trying to tackle this problem.

I often see the second pulls of experienced lifters, and how they really arch backwards sometimes. Is that a consequence of viciously extending a heavy weight? Or is it a conscious action? I haven't noticed if the same occurs with a lighter weight. I'm not sure why I have so much trouble keeping the bar close; perhaps a bad habit I'm trying so hard to break, because my elbows used to bend much less than now (if any bend at all!).

Thanks for everyone's inputs.

Brian Lawyer
02-10-2009, 12:56 PM
I often see the second pulls of experienced lifters, and how they really arch backwards sometimes. Is that a consequence of viciously extending a heavy weight? Or is it a conscious action? I

I have a couple ideas. I wouldn't mind hearing Glenn's opinion though. Here are my ideas.

1. I watched a Dan John video one time and his coaching cue wasn't the basic "jump/shrug" most coaches do. It was something like jump and look at the ceiling.

2. I also saw in the WCC Lifting video, they suggested putting a picture on the ceiling and extending until you catch a glimpse of that picture in your upper peripheral view, then pull under the bar.

Do those make sense?

Christian Mendoza
02-10-2009, 01:01 PM
Makes sense. Seems like that extension is more exaggerated than I think. I've also been told to not rush the first pull; I never jerked it from the ground, but I think I have tried to move faster than I currently am (until I transition to that second pull), and that seems to help some. Just gotta keep hacking away at this!

Brian Lawyer
02-10-2009, 01:18 PM
I've also been told to not rush the first pull; I never jerked it from the ground, but I think I have tried to move faster than I currently am (until I transition to that second pull), and that seems to help some. Just gotta keep hacking away at this!

It's that added weight that I think may help with rushing through the first pull. When the weight it really light it is easy to miss the first pull. Add a little more weight and you have to get a good first pull to set up the second pull.

So like for me as an example, as I am working on my form/technique/timing with my above noted working weight, I almost am doing two separate exercises, a halting snatch deadlift followed by a mid-hang snatch. Of course, I try not to pause or anything in between and make the snatch one fluent motion as best I can. Then as the weight increases and I start working closer toward my one rep max it has to be one nice fluent motion.

Take whatever I say with a grain of salt though cause I am still a beginner at this like you. I have some snatch and C&J coaching vids a couple weeks back if you want to look.

Christian Mendoza
02-10-2009, 01:20 PM
Sure, I'll have a look at those as well - are they posted on the web somewhere? I appreciate your input, and wish you luck with your training too.

glennpendlay
02-10-2009, 01:27 PM
just watched one of your older vids. Much better basis for analysis.

The exaggerated arch works for some and not for others. But you are not extending on top at all. Fix the big problem first, get some second pull extension, JUMP with that weight, once you are doing that, then you can think about exaggerating it like some do, but dont worry about that till your getting way better knee/hip extension at the top of the lift.

glenn

Brian Lawyer
02-10-2009, 01:42 PM
Sure, I'll have a look at those as well - are they posted on the web somewhere? I appreciate your input, and wish you luck with your training too.

Here is my first digital coaching thread. Derek Maffett usually has a good eye for form:
http://www.cathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3670

Here is the thread where I tried to take everyone's advice from the above thread into consideration and fix my technique. There wasn't any response on this thread but I have the same thread on crossfit that got more response.
http://www.cathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3680

Here is my video from last week where I was trying to work "Power Snatch + Snatch Balance + Mid-hang Snatch". This thread got quite a bit of discusion going regarding snatch balances.
http://www.cathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3803

Brian Lawyer
02-10-2009, 01:48 PM
I wasn't fortunate enough to get Glenn Pendlay to respond to one of my digital coaching threads and I am sporting his dang shoes in everyone of my vids. I put those Do-Wins through workouts like those at least 3 days a week for past 3 months or so.

glennpendlay
02-10-2009, 02:09 PM
Brian,

Sorry. I just started paying more attention to the forums here... never used to do much reading here except for some of the diet stuff. Promise ill comment on your next set of videos!

glenn

glennpendlay
02-10-2009, 02:18 PM
Now I just went and looked at your vids... and im curious... whos your coach? if you dont mind saying that is...

Brian Lawyer
02-10-2009, 02:29 PM
sorry Christian for hijacking your thread. Let me just respond to glenn:

First, you gave me one PT session at the Y!!

Otherwise, I don't want to throw my coach under the bus, because on my thread when I say "my coach says this or that", I am not criticizing his advice. I am only throwing it out there for conversation.

It may sound like bogus advice to the outsider, but I have to respect that he has seen me working out in person numerous times with various amounts of weight. So he probably has good reasons for telling me how to do things the way he tells me how to do stuff and I probably don't translate his advice well to my threads.

I will say he is a dedicated Olympic lifting coach and takes guys to competitions. Not some CF certified average joe who thinks he can teach a Snatch.

glennpendlay
02-10-2009, 02:40 PM
Darn, now I remember you. I knew I was missing something, geez i feel like an idiot! The shaved head should have given you away... and you probably already told me who your coach is, I just forgot.

For what its worth, your 195 clean and jerks look pretty darn good to me, the ones you posted 1-17-09.

As I remember, when the weight got around the 220lb mark when you were here in WF, you were having trouble catching. Your catches look pretty smooth and in good position on the videos. Nice improvement. Also you were having trouble with the heavier jerks when you were here, wanting to lean a bit and put them out front if memory serves.

Id love to see a vid of you doing something in the 220-230lb range just to compare what i saw when you were here.

Brian Lawyer
02-11-2009, 07:22 AM
Christian, Again apologize for hijacking your thread. I worked out one time with Glenn in Wichita Falls. Let me just respond to him one more time.

Darn, now I remember you. I knew I was missing something, geez i feel like an idiot! The shaved head should have given you away... and you probably already told me who your coach is, I just forgot.


I figured you didn't remember me or was mad at me over my hot sports opinions about Do-wins and stuff...haha. I was just giving you a hard time:) .... That is also your Rogue bar and WFW bumpers in all my vids...All the equipment is holding up well for my 2 or 3 O'Lift workouts per week.

As it stands right now, I have a 206lb snatch PR and a 243lb C&J PR. My jerks are feeling real good now. It's my cleans that got me stuck last time I maxed out. Then again, last time I maxed out, I hit 243lbs C&J so easily that I tried to make a jump to 265lb C&J and missed the clean 2 or 3 times. I probably should have attempted 250lbs first..

Christian Mendoza
02-11-2009, 01:20 PM
Well, I trained this morning, and changed my start position. If you notice in the videos, my rear is in the air before I stoop down for the first pull. I've noticed some start right off the ground with the bars against their shins. This is what I tried, and I definitely felt the bar take a different path, and everything else fell into place. At one point, I did catch a glimpse of the ceiling, and a couple times, pulling my self into the receive position, it was solid...no rocking onto toes, so I think that weight was dead on my heels where it should be. I was getting over-zealous, and tried doing 70kg, as my 6th or 7th set (after doing heavy back squats before snatches), and I was able to get it up, but sloppy; I might've been getting tired, but the doubles of 65kg felt great. I'm gonna work with this some more. I wish I had my camera this time to see the difference, because I definitely felt one.

Brian Lawyer
02-11-2009, 01:48 PM
I was getting over-zealous, and tried doing 70kg, as my 6th or 7th set (after doing heavy back squats before snatches), and I was able to get it up, but sloppy; I might've been getting tired, but the doubles of 65kg felt great. I'm gonna work with this some more. I wish I had my camera this time to see the difference, because I definitely felt one.

Thats awesome! It's good to have a balance between being perfectly technical and just knowing when to throw some weight on the bar.

Christian Mendoza
02-14-2009, 09:31 PM
Please check out the lifts dated 2.14.09...improvements from the ones dated 11/08? For instance, the 70kg lift from 2.14.09, and the older ones from 11.20.08, and 11.29.08...Thanks for the input again! I also forgot my shoes today, so I was wearing tennis shoes; definitely a difference in stability!

http://www.youtube.com/djkaus1980