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Frank Needham
01-14-2007, 03:29 PM
At this time I am doing the SS program and will continue for about 5 more months. SS is supposed to be good for 6 months, or longer, and from there I intend to do this program:
http://www.exrx.net/WeightTraining/Weightlifting.html
There is a link within the first page to a Hormone Fluctuation Model at http://www.exrx.net/ExInfo/Overtraining.html#anchor1453377. How are these blood tests normally administered?

Elliot Royce
01-15-2007, 03:37 PM
I saw those MSU programs and they looked pretty cool but I got the sense they were designed for young athletes with plenty of time on their hands.

I showed them to my O lift coach and he liked them but since most of his trainees are older than 30, I think he felt they were a bit much.

Frank Needham
01-16-2007, 05:37 AM
Thanks for the feedback Elliot. They do look tough but I'm going to give it a go anyway. Six weeks on paper doesn't look so bad a length of time to last. If I die 1/2 way through I'll just go to plan B. It'll be a kind of test for me to see how far I've come at that time. What does your coach have you doing if I may ask?

Elliot Royce
01-16-2007, 11:03 AM
Right now, mostly just working on the basics with snatches, cleans, and squats with variants on the above. Plus some c&j. There are a lot of building blocks you can do (I forget all the names).

I've asked him for a more formal program since I want to get a bit more serious on it (perhaps even at the expense of CF). I'll get back to you when I have more information.

Robb Wolf
01-16-2007, 11:53 AM
Looks like a fanny kicker! Keep us posted.

Frank Needham
01-16-2007, 04:45 PM
We'll see what happens. Right now I'm making good progress on the SS program doing 3 days per week, bumping things up 2.5% each week and flipping workouts from AB to BA on alternate weeks. My mass is climbing a bit and I'm completing all workouts in 45-50 mins maximum.

So, if my gains continue and I don't get injured doing something stupid like that I have confidence that by 6 months I should be able to do the MSU experimental program. Mind you, I'll be starting out at levels where I can be assured of making good runs at weights that'll guarantee PRs for quite some time.

Coach Rutherford
01-16-2007, 06:44 PM
I had an opportunity to speak with Dr. Kilgore about this template. The discussion included pretty graphic details of what your body will experience during the HARD weeks.

I'm personally interested in your experience. Please update this thread.

Mike ODonnell
01-16-2007, 06:50 PM
Frank on your SS plan what are you using for rest periods? 1 min? 3 min? more?

John Vernon
01-16-2007, 08:47 PM
Yeah buddy! I did that MSU program about a year ago. I started during winter break from school and wrapped up during the first few weeks of school. I'll have to find my old training log that's somewhere in storage to get the specifics. I do remember making great gains in my O-lifting, set a PR in both my lifts.

I cut my met-con down to 1-2 days a week, or I would cut it out completely and focus on BJJ. Which happened to be where I noticed the biggest difference. I was able to roll with some pretty hefty dudes and get them out of their game because they weren't able to overpower me like other guys at 170 pounds.

One thing is for sure, it will kick your ass. Once those workouts start doubling up get some rest, eat, & stretch, my homework definitely suffered at that time but it was my last semester. I developed a pretty good case of PT in my right knee towards the end of the cycle. It was a lot of fun though, I might do it again some time but I like your idea about getting some serious training in before starting it again...I am definitely not even close to being able to start that again anytime soon.

Good luck.

Frank Needham
01-16-2007, 09:33 PM
I had an opportunity to speak with Dr. Kilgore about this template. The discussion included pretty graphic details of what your body will experience during the HARD weeks.

I'm personally interested in your experience. Please update this thread.

You bet Coach. As a matter of fact I was gonna broach the subject of workout logs here on the boards. Maybe I'll bring this up with Robb to see what he thinks.

If you don't mind could you share the details of your conversation with the Doc?

Frank Needham
01-16-2007, 09:40 PM
Frank on your SS plan what are you using for rest periods? 1 min? 3 min? more?

Mike, right now I'm going sold out all the way through but honestly that would be coz I'm not hitting heavy weights just yet. My 5mr for each exercise right now is squat 195, bench 175, dead 230, press 120, squat power clean 125. I'm finishing in 45 mins on average so I'm doing about 1 set every 2 min. If I've got a few minutes time left I'll do dips or pulls.

John, thanks and it sure would be interesting to hear about some of your notes on the program.

jerry.mobbs
01-17-2007, 01:05 AM
Frank

I also started the 5*5 in January. New Years Resolution!

I'm doing 3 mins total (work+rest) for Squat, Dead, Power Clean and 2 mins for Bench and Press.

Doing 1 SS workout in every 4 day CF cycle. I just do the SS work out instead of something like Front Squat 1,1,1,1,1,

How about comparing progress after every month?

My max 5*5 numbers are close to yours.
Squat 198
Bench 154
Dead 236
Press 115
Power Clean 136

Jerry

Coach Rutherford
01-17-2007, 03:34 AM
J.V.'s experience with the template is a good summary of the conversation. He said that everyone who uses it (and survives) sets personal records. The challenge is in managing the stresses with focus on restoration.

Rick Deckart
01-17-2007, 10:15 AM
Thanks for the link, I knew the template from Practical Programming but wasn't aware that a full excel template did exist.

No offense but unless you are very good in snatches and clean and jerks I think you would be much better served with a less taxing program. Cost benefit ratio would be much better IMO. After all, although this was used with beginners, it is really a very advanced program for advanced athletes who have very good technique in the classical lifts and the appropriate years of training history to cope with the involved stress.

Just so to be clear, I think a beginner could follow such a template successfully, but before I would try something like this I would stay a couple of month on the WFW progam outlined in the next paragraph, or do Mike Burgeners WOD for two or three month. After that you should have a pretty good idea what your 1RM in the snatch and clean and jerk is and consistency in both lifts as well. If you technique is mediocre I think you should abstain from the HFM.

Regards.

Peter

Frank Needham
01-17-2007, 04:40 PM
Thanks for the advice but I jump in with both feet when I see something I like, and I like the looks of that program.

Elliot Royce
01-17-2007, 07:40 PM
Frank:

Gung ho is good but keep an eye out for tendonitis and technique. I started out with Jim Schmidtz's (US Olympic coach) program of 5x5 on most of the Olympic lifts 3x per week, put the weight up quickly, and ended with major tendonitis.

Good luck and keep us posted. I've asked my coach to give me a beginner's program. He just set the New England masters' records for his age: 110kg snatch and 157kg c&j. He's going for the world record in his age group on the C&J. Pretty impressive, in my mind.

Rick Deckart
01-18-2007, 01:16 AM
Frank,

good luck with the program. My main concern still is that I don't believe that half a year of SS is proper preparation for an olympic lifting peaking cycle. I don't not know your training history, but unless you trained the classical lifts (snatch/clean+jerk) and have some basic skill and consistency in them I frankly think it is wasted time to start something like this...

Of course I could be wrong but chances are that you would make far greater gains with less stress following a different routine at this time in your training. You can always start such a routine after achieving some consistency in the olympic lifts.

Regards,

Peter

Frank Needham
01-18-2007, 05:02 PM
I read these responses this am but no time to respond and thought about them today. Thoughtful posts such as given deserve a thoughtful answer. So, my intent, which I might not have very fully communicated, is to take a run at the program once done with 6 months of SS. Knowing that I am not a gifted O lifter (yet), I will start the lifts at points that guarantee that I can make it through the 6 weeks and will be evaluating my progress througout very closely. Just for good measure I think I'll tape some of it and post my attempts, heavily edited of course. If I bomb, so be it, I'll just reset and have at it again. If that doesn't seem to be an option at that point I'll prolly go to doing the Starr intermediate 5x5 as shown in this link:
http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/5x5_Program/Linear_5x5.htm

Robb Wolf
01-18-2007, 05:49 PM
You bet Coach. As a matter of fact I was gonna broach the subject of workout logs here on the boards. Maybe I'll bring this up with Robb to see what he thinks.

If you don't mind could you share the details of your conversation with the Doc?

I'd love to do some logs...I will talk to Greg about what would be involved. I have had an idea about some type of statistical analysis associated with a training log...how much efficiency does one experience from one program or another? One can track it as % change per week, or as a function of time invested (total workout) tonnage...I think some interesting stuff is lurking there but it would be hard to get that put together.

Frank Needham
01-18-2007, 06:29 PM
Robb, I shot you a real short email on keeping logs here as well. I'm looking forward to see what you have in mind.

Robb Wolf
01-19-2007, 07:24 AM
I'd definitely second the caution to ease into the OL's. Time spent on light technique work will pay off not only in a better ultimate top performance but longevity in the sport do to decreased injuries. Nicki Nibbler of CF North jumped into the OL's and won an age group national championship...and really pushed the lifts. I think shoulder tendinitis plagued him for nearly a year before he backed up a little and did more foundational training. Just something to consider.

Greg Everett
01-19-2007, 09:32 AM
The people have spoken:

Training Log Forum (http://www.performancemenu.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=28)

Elliot Royce
01-19-2007, 11:53 AM
Cool...this way I won't have to feel guilty if my workouts stray from the straight and narrow CF path (like excessive amounts of bench presses).

Frank Needham
01-19-2007, 05:34 PM
I like it!!