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Ron Nelson
01-17-2007, 09:16 PM
So, I was in an accident on Monday. I'm fine, thanks.

The wife and I were rear-ended by a teenager on a cell phone (go figure). We were stopped, she was doing about 40 mph. I had the normal whiplash symptoms in the neck and shoulders, so I decided to skip the chiropractic route and began active release technique treatment today.

My first reaction: Ouch. But in a good way.

Now, I'm sore, but feel good with no headache. I'm also tanking on my attempt to finish the "New Rules" strength workouts and replacing it with Afterburn for the next 8 weeks or so. I'll update on the ART as go along. The doc says about 8 sessions ought to do it. We'll see.

Allen Yeh
01-18-2007, 05:46 AM
Ron,

Glad to hear you're alright! In regards to the "New Rules" I found that Phase I trying to do all 4 workouts a week was kicking my ass in terms of being able to recover I took 2 weeks off and now I'm on Phase II with 3 workouts a week and it's going a LOT better so far. Let me know how you like Afterburn.

Elliot Royce
01-18-2007, 07:43 AM
I did ART for my disc herniations and it seemed effective. Make sure you get an orthopedic evaluation for your insurance company and in case issues surface later on. You want a record if you need to initiate a lawsuit.

Glad to hear, though, that you're alright. We were rearended by a teenager when my wife was about a month away from term in pregnancy. I was ready to hit him but then had to drive my wife to hospital because it provoked contractions. Fortunately all worked out.

Cassidy Drake
01-18-2007, 08:39 AM
Nice to hear some first hand feelings on the ART. I have wanted to try it myself, however there are no practitioners in my area. Good luck with your recovery.

Jeremy Jones
01-18-2007, 02:56 PM
Glad to hear you are okay. . . I hope you didn't spill your beer.

Ron Nelson
01-18-2007, 05:27 PM
Jonsey,
You been talking to Silver? He said the same thing.

Great minds. . .

Thanks for the well wishes, all. I think everything shold work out OK without court, but being a lawyer helps if it does go there.

So far, only a little tenderness from the ART session. It's totally different from going to a straight chiro. Lots of pressure and release and some discomfort. Like a massage, only painful.

and no "happy ending."

Robb Wolf
01-21-2007, 04:03 PM
We have an ART/DC in chico we refer people to, John fragoso:
http://www.fragoso-chiropractic.com/

The guy is a miracle worker. Awesome stuff. Sorry Ron, no happy ending here either. I do have another friend however...

Ron Nelson
01-21-2007, 08:24 PM
Next appointment is tomorrow. I've only had a little stiffness in the areas he worked, mostly in the hips, which is surprising.

I always thought of Chico as the land of the "happy ending."

Ron Nelson
01-24-2007, 05:06 PM
After several delays, I finally got to session two today. Focus was on shoulders (specifically the rotator cuff), neck and hips. He did some moves on the adductors that had me reeling, but feeling pretty good afterward. The neck work was deep and painful. I like the shoulder moves as they are doing me the most good. After all that, he did a chiropractic adjustment to the thoracic spine, showed me a great ITB stretch and I was on my merry way. A few more sessions and my shoulders and neck should be better than new.

Yael Grauer
01-24-2007, 07:05 PM
Do you know what the differences in types of certifications are for ART? There's two ART docs in my city and both have "upper and lower extremity" certs but one is also certified in "spine" and "nerve entrapment."

Ron Nelson
01-25-2007, 10:46 AM
As far as I know, the specialties are obtained by going to ART classes in that discipline and practicing in that area. I noticed several notebooks in my guy's office with those titles.

I suppose it's a good way to decide on which practicioner to visit. If the problem is in the upper extremities, then see that guy; but, most I've seen are certified in upper and lower and nerve entrapment, which I take to mean impingement. Some work disorders like carpal tunnel syndrome.

By the way, last night and today I noticed soreness in the upper back around the rhomboids, but the hips feel good. I hear my hips don't lie.

Hope that helped, Yael. The ART part, not the part about my hips.

Yael Grauer
01-25-2007, 12:11 PM
I just think that any chiropractor would be able to help with your spine even if they don't have ART "spine" certs...but I don't understand the difference between all these things.

Congrats on getting your hips to tell the truth, btw.

Ron Nelson
01-25-2007, 09:24 PM
Basic difference between ART and chiropractic is the lack of "adjustments." ART is more like deep tissue massage that works trigger points, also called adhesions, in the muscle. Adhesions are usually made up of scar tissue built up over time from little injuries and repetitive use. The practicioner finds these and actively works the point while moving the muscles in the area.
Hope that clears things up for you.

Yael Grauer
01-25-2007, 09:26 PM
So I just need to figure out if I have spinal adhesions or not. LOL. Okay, I'll let you get back to your regularly scheduled thread.

Robb Wolf
01-27-2007, 05:51 PM
I like chiropractic but adjustments without addressing soft tissue holding patterns is not nearly as effective. Find a DC who is also and ART of myofascial release stud/studette and you have a very effective physiotherapist IMO.

SOME physical therapists have a background like this if they have a strong steeping in manual therapy...tough to find PT's with this background however. Most want to throw you on ice and stim. Lame.

Yael Grauer
01-27-2007, 10:44 PM
I like chiropractic but adjustments without addressing soft tissue holding patterns is not nearly as effective. Find a DC who is also and ART of myofascial release stud/studette and you have a very effective physiotherapist IMO.

Robb, I was specifically asking about the difference between DC's who have "upper extremity" and "lower extremity" ART certs versus DC's who have "spine" and "nerve entrapment" ART certs in addition to "upper extremity" and "lower extremity" ART certs.

john fragoso
01-30-2007, 09:11 AM
Credentials are key, the more ART certifications (spine, upper extemity, lower extremity, etc) the better. But perhaps the most important thing to look for is experience. ART is a technique that is fine tuned with practice, lots of it. Many say it takes about two years to become really good at this technique, and to some extent I agree, the more you do, the better you become.

Robb Wolf
01-31-2007, 07:33 AM
DR. Fragoso!!!

Hey everybody, John Fragoso is a stud athlete, amazing Chiro/ART practitioner and almost family. Pester him with questions.

Ron Nelson
01-31-2007, 10:38 PM
Good to know that a practicioner is aboard. Hopefully my other posts were accurate, in a layman sort of way.

My ART guy has been doing great so far.
My shoulders and neck are improving and my hips feel great. I'm an ART believer.

Yael Grauer
02-02-2007, 11:22 PM
Credentials are key, the more ART certifications (spine, upper extemity, lower extremity, etc) the better. But perhaps the most important thing to look for is experience. ART is a technique that is fine tuned with practice, lots of it. Many say it takes about two years to become really good at this technique, and to some extent I agree, the more you do, the better you become.

Well, since both the local ART guys have 20+ years of experience, I decided to go with the one with less credentials. I talked to the receptionists at both offices and it seems that he spends more time with his clients (30 min. visits as opposed to 10 min. visits) and is more geared towards getting you to not have to come back after the treatment is completed than the other dude (who can "eventually get you down to just once or twice a month"). Also he charges more, which makes me trust him more (lame, I know) and the receptionists made me feel more warm and fuzzy. AND my insurance covers BOTH these guys! I'm so used to paying out of pocket that I was pleasantly surprised.

I'm now done hijacking your thread now, Ron. Please resume. :-)

john fragoso
02-06-2007, 04:08 PM
Sounds like you made a good choice! It's difficult to effectively treat a patient in 10 minutes unless your performing straight chiropractic and unattended modalities. When I first started I worked in an ART office and they booked 10 minute appointments, however, we the interns and employee's did all the work and the primary doctors got their ten minutes of finishing our job. So you pay a little more for the 30 min guy (or gal), but with the longer session, the doc can acquire a good understanding of your condition & provide proper treatment. Hopefully a "happy ending" awaits you.

Jamila Bey
02-06-2007, 10:35 PM
Well hell, we're all family here so please permit me to hijack:

Can anyone speak to the benefits of preventative ART? I have a client who I train in the O-lifts and general strength stuff who raves about her ART guy.

I'm thinking of going to see him to form a relationship so that when I get banged up playing football I'll have someone who I already know and like on tap. But while I'm healthy and pain free right now, are there really any benefits I can see?

Yael Grauer
02-07-2007, 09:10 AM
Dr. Fragoso--Thanks! I started another thread on this but it quickly went down the gutter. :o Anyway, my last chiropractor was at one of those clinics where you don't have to make appointments and they try to rush everyone out as quickly as possible. I'd say something like, "Can you show me a stretch I can do to take care of that?" and the guy would give me the evil eye. :( My new chiro did the same adjustments, but I also got spend 15 minutes lying down on the weird machine that fixed my neck and back and had the remote control heater, and he gave me a little booklet with stretches and checked off which ones I should do, walked me through all of them to make sure I was doing them right, showed me little 3D spine models and explained what's going on with my back, made me show him all the exercises I do to see which ones might exacerbate my lumbar facet, AND tried to kill me with ART. I feel like I definitely got my money's worth. :D Plus he actually read the form I filled out! I always wonder why people make me fill out long forms when they never actually read them.

Jamila--I'm not sure on this, but I'd bet that even if you're healthy and pain free, it's possible you have some kind of soft tissue holding pattern anyway... Hopefully someone else will respond because I'm guessing. :)

Ron Nelson
02-07-2007, 10:46 AM
I'm sorry, what were we talking about?

As for ART helping with football injuries, not sure. My instinct would tell me massage would be more beneficial. My neighbor's son plays for the Carolina Panthers and I think he pretty much swears by massage and ice (yes, he's a starter at ILB).

Dr. Fregoso is more qualified than I to address this.

My ART guy is reevaluating me this week. Looks like I'll be cutting down to once a week then off until needed again.

john fragoso
02-07-2007, 03:32 PM
With soft tissue injuries there are three main causes: The first we all relate to -acute strains felt immediately after onset. The second and third are less obvoius-Repetitive use or overuse and the third being constant pressure(ie. poor posture). In all three of these scenarios there is insult to the soft tissue. With the last two scenarios the symptoms of pain, swelling, irritation, etc. aren't experienced right away, they develop over time. Preventative ART (or care in general) can help prevent full blown injuries from occurring. It's about addressing the situation before it becomes a problem.
An entirely separate facet of ART is performance care. With performace care the goal is to ensure that muscles are perfoming as they should and that your movement is biomechanically sound. I treat a lot of runners and with regular care they perform better, recover faster, and have increased endurance.

Robb Wolf
02-08-2007, 07:12 PM
Efficacy of ART? We were sending clients THREE HOURS AWAY to the SF Bay area for ART before we found out Dr. Fragoso was in town. ART works remarkably well in my experience.

All of the Poliquin Performance centers have ART practitioners on staff. Pretty compelling, but check it out and evaluate for yourself.

Ron Nelson
03-21-2007, 07:05 PM
Well, finished with my ART guy for the accident. All injuries have stabilized and the pain is non-existent. He even worked on my achillies and got that under control in two visits.

He left me with a series of rotator cuff exercises, most of which I already knew, and some stretches for the calf to help the achillies.

In all, I liked the treatment and the results. My injuries were minor, but getting back to normal in 9 visits is pretty good. If I ever find myself in this situation, or if I want to get my sports injuries treated, I'm going back.

Dan Silver
03-28-2007, 02:17 PM
And the riveting saga of Ron's neck comes to a close.

Let me know when the book deal comes through; I'd love to negotiate the movie rights.

-D.

Ron Nelson
03-29-2007, 08:27 AM
Piss off, skinny.

You know you cared; you just wouldn't send a card.

Bastard.

Eva Claire Synkowski
05-04-2007, 12:12 PM
hey ron thanks for posting your ART experience!

this thread got me started on ART for a pulled hamstring. pulled it about 6 months ago, restrained a cople months ago doing deadlifts. pull is pretty high on the hammy. anyway, post reading this thread, i found my dr through:

http://www.activerelease.com/providerSearch.asp

and she's been just great. started almost 2 wks ago, and ive been to 4 sessions. she thinks we'll go for 10-12 sessions. so far: injury/pain is still there, but i would say by ROM is definitely improved - possibly even better than that pre-initial injury. each session is 20 min and theres definitely some soreness from the treatment - she's really attacking the glute and hip flexors. not too much work directly on the hamstring.

anyway, ill update this once the trt has ended - but wanted to give more support for ART!

Rene Renteria
05-04-2007, 03:37 PM
Robb, would you mind listing who it is or was that you were referring folks to in the SF Bay Area for ART?

Eva, where are you? Mind putting the name of the clinic or doc where you are getting your treatment? Might be nice to have a thread that holds the info. (Are you the EC in the videos over at CF? If so, that's damn strong work!)

I've been thinking about ART for a while. I've had trouble with pulling or straining my hamstrings playing soccer for a long time. Turned out that CrossFit helped a bunch, but then I did it again. I really have to be on top of my fitness and rest to go out and play hard. I'm almost 40, so I can't imagine it's going to get any easier. I'm very tight all over, poor posture, inconsistent in my training, so it's difficult to decide what to do first. Well, maybe second; first should be training consistency (including working out, nutrition, and rest/recovery).

Nice to hear some first-hand experience with ART, Ron. Thanks for any other info!
Rene'

Eva Claire Synkowski
05-05-2007, 05:12 AM
im in boston, and going to the soft tissue diagnostic and treatment center.

http://www.softtissuetreatment.com/

im no expert - but sounds like youre a good ART candidate. you must have a good amount of scar tissue from the soccer injuries, and the poor posture isnt helping anything. ive been able to continue training with ART, although there is some picking and choosing of what exercises im doing.
maybe you could shift some focus towards mobility stuff and really working form and ROM.

you know, ive made some progress in tightness with joint mobility drills, and short/frequent stretching throughout the day. however, yesterday was the first time i really could do an overhead squat with a dumbbell (armed directly overhead, break parallel, lordotic arch, and no torque in the movement). im guessing it's not a coincidence that i started ART a couple weeks ago.

im not sure what your health insurance deal will be - but mine covers 12 sessions a year, and they are costing only $15 a session. so, i think its a steal.

and thanks! yeah, im ec.