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Steve Shafley
01-18-2007, 05:43 AM
Can you say "bandwagon"?

6# weight loss

Not fat loss. I'd probably say that 2-3# is fat loss and 2-3# is water loss. Probably 1# of lean mass lost.

271 (Monday, Jan 10) to 265 (Today) - wearing underwear/t-shirt

8 out of the last 10 days I've fasted from ~8PM to 2-5PM the next day.

I'm noticably leaner, both in appearance (facially) and in skinfold measurements, but I'm not doing enough skinfold stuff to track, just to get a trend...down ~2-3mm suprailiac, right now. Abodominal circumference is down too. However, I think I need to eat more calories during my eating periods, and I'm starting to get a bit worn out during/after training.

The yerba mate combined with a Thermbuterol (OTC thermogenic) pretty much knocks my appetite down to nothing until 3-5 PM.

That's the result of 8 days of not eating anything from 8 PM to ~2-5 PM the next day. My eating periods are getting cleaner too, with me focusing on proteins, fruits and veggies.

Like I said, though, I think performance is taking a hit. I'm going to squat today. I'm probably going to cry.

Also, after 4 days of ZMA (and Microlactin), I finally got a good night's sleep last night.

Supps:

~5-10 fish oil caps from Sams club
-multi-vit
-ZMA (last 4 days)
-Microlactin (a Stolle milk fraction...read some interesting stuff about it)
-occasional B-complex
-2 grams of c daily
-1-2 thermogenics on fasting days

And, to make a note of it, the food I've eaten has ranged from good choices (last night was cottage cheese, berries, ground beef, cheese, apple, low carb torilllas, ice cream) to atrocious.

Steve Shafley
01-18-2007, 05:45 AM
I'm going to push this further towards "paleo" style refeeds for the most part, with lots of meat, leaves, and berries (I stole that phrase from Dan John, since he's the V-diet man now)

Dave Van Skike
01-18-2007, 11:38 AM
Interesting results. Are you tracking kcal at all durting the feed? How many days a week are you IF'ing.

Also, if I may pester, what is the deal with ZMA? I get real sleepy but then no sleep...Seems like there is a real short window as with melatonin. I switched to ZMA because everything else was leaving me groggy and floppy for my AM lifting session.

Steve Shafley
01-18-2007, 12:09 PM
Not right now, Dave. I would guess that they've been wildly varied, from as little as 1500 calories to as high as 4000 calories.

With the thermogenic, it really acts strongly as an anorectant.

I IFed 8 out of the last 10 days.

I usually IF Sunday night through Friday night.

ZMA has a window for me too, it's 20-45 minutes after taking it. If I miss it, I have trouble getting to sleep, just like you report. I have no theory about it, either.

I would like to ease into the 2000-3000 kcal range, with a tendency towards the meat, leaves, and berries.

Chris Forbis
01-18-2007, 04:42 PM
Dave -

I am not Steve, but here is how I do it.

MWF - one meal ~5pm, 2200cal
TuThSa - two meals (and pwo shake), 1 pwo (~630am during week, ~10am weekend), other 5pm, 4100cal
Su - one cheat meal (usually pizza) at noon, and one other meal, 4800cal

Every now and then something like wings or beer gets thrown in on top of everything.

Average: 3400 calories a day
Staying lean and mean on this (6'4", high 170s, 8-10% ? bodyfat).

Stuart Mather
01-20-2007, 06:18 PM
I alternate between 16 and 20 hrs fasting every day. I only ever notice hunger at about the 13 hr point, then it vanishes until I decide to eat. But then I have been doing this for four months now. I used to get pretty hungry early on. I'll try the yerba mate ( I have tea. Is that how you take it?) to see if it affects the 13 hr point hunger. Nor sure wether the other thermogenic you mentioned is even available in Australia ;).

It's a bit embarassing, but I don't even work out. I just do push up handstands ( with a bit of leg waving about for the core strength) and lifting leg arcs, about eight times a day, in very short bursts in with whatever else I'm doing, every day, until I feel a slight burn. The IF seems to have built muscle and trimmed fat, even though my calorie intake is way down.

I've eaten meat, fat, leaves and a few berries (and dark choc) for over four years. Talking about fat, none of you seem to mention it as a big part of your diet.

Meat, leaves and berries? Where's the fat?

Stuart.

Chris Forbis
01-20-2007, 08:14 PM
Stuart-

75% of my non-cheat meal (one cheat meal a week) calories are from fat. Mostly from grassfed beef, but also nuts, coconut oil, and fish oil.