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Brian DeGennaro
04-15-2009, 09:52 AM
I was wondering what everyone's thoughts on health and mass gain are. Is rapid mass gain a particularly healthy endeavor, even if it is only for a quick 10-20lbs over the course of a few months? Is gradual mass gain more desirable? As Mike OD said in a thread below "If large gains in body weight is the goal......embrace the sin of gluttony.....or take steroids." To tie that in to my first statement, will these few months of gluttony take their toll in the long run?

Dave Van Skike
04-15-2009, 10:36 AM
I was wondering what everyone's thoughts on health and mass gain are. Is rapid mass gain a particularly healthy endeavor, even if it is only for a quick 10-20lbs over the course of a few months? Is gradual mass gain more desirable? As Mike OD said in a thread below "If large gains in body weight is the goal......embrace the sin of gluttony.....or take steroids." To tie that in to my first statement, will these few months of gluttony take their toll in the long run?

i'll bet dollars to donuts no one really can be sure. At your age it's probably safer than not...in terms of bodycomp you're pumping out amounts of testosterone naturally that guys over 30 would need a prescription for so if you're under 25 the time is now.

I hate to say this but I have a sneaking suspicion that unless someone is well outside the average height and build parameters of a male human (over 6'3) it's not particularly "healthy" to be much over 200 pounds period, even at low bodyfat.

Donald Lee
04-15-2009, 10:52 AM
I think as long as you understand that connective tissue are slower to adapt to training stimuli than muscle rapid mass gain shouldn't be too much of a problem (e.g., You shouldn't start lifting HEAVY all time all of a sudden just because you got big and strong.) From other health perspectives, I don't know.

Mike ODonnell
04-15-2009, 12:19 PM
Few months probably won't be devastating.....esp if you are under 25 like Dave said. The question then becomes....after you are done, and go back to a "healthier" way of eating which will include less calories....and try to burn excess fat....are you really thinking that you will keep much of that weight gain in the end?

A slow and steady muscle gain is always better than the old school of bulking up/cutting down IMO for "health" reasons.....cause in the end you still probably only end up with a few extra lbs of muscle over a couple months. But the slow and steady way may also help keep insulin resistance factors low and be kinder to your gut.

In the end.....you may find your healthy natural bodyweight in and around say 180-190lbs rather than 220 (just using round numbers). Then it just comes down to your own personal decision of what weight you want and why. If you like feeling bloated all day at 220lbs....then go for it....been there, done that...much happier and leaner now.

Kevin Perry
04-15-2009, 04:35 PM
Doing the bulk thing just sucks if you have a mild lactose problem and get sick easily from certain foods, I can't even stomach protein shakes without feeling bloated, constipated, and just sick all day.

I try to look at it this way, even though some of us are young and can probably handle a couple phases of throwing that food down your throat, is it really worth it feeling like crap day in and day out only for a few solid pounds of muscle? Im finding much more success recently from using zone guidelines/paleo guidelines and adjusting from there. Feel better, more energy, and weight gain can be adjusted. As a result, my own body weight is steady climbing back up.

I can't even manage to keep with mass gain like that half the time because life is so busy and im tired of feeling like shit all the time.

Mike ODonnell
04-15-2009, 06:03 PM
Read this....possibly the best nutrition article on mass gain/bodybuilding.....ever.......
http://www.westonaprice.org/men/splendidspecimens.html

Learn to love eggs....lots of them.....and go buy some digestive enzymes....may help reduce bloating.

Patrick Donnelly
04-15-2009, 08:53 PM
With regards to the whole "feeling bloated" thing - how many calories per day are you guys talking there?

At the moment, this is what I shoot for every day. I don't always make it, but the thing that holds me back is always the time it takes to eat, not feeling bloated. This is on an IF schedule with a 5-8hr eating window too.

Beef/Pork/Fish: 350 calories
Whey Protein: 200
Eggs: 1000
Olive Oil: 3000
Nuts: 350
Avocados: occasionally 1-2 per day, when I have them
Fruit: 200
PWO Carbs: 200 (honey, sweet potatoes, dates etc.)
Veggies: 30
Ice Cream: 1000 (only half the time)
Nutella: 1000 (only half the time)

That's between 5000-7500 calories per day. Like I said, I don't always make it, but it's never feeling "bloated" that holds me back. It's time constraints. I'm sure the massive amounts of eggs, ice cream, and Nutella aren't the best thing for me, but it's not a permanent way of eating, so I'm not that concerned.

I'm hoping to make my way from 94kg to 105kg by December, with a loss of a couple of points of bodyfat. I haven't weighed myself recently, so I don't know how it's going, but I tend to gain weight slowly.

Brian DeGennaro
04-16-2009, 05:20 AM
Yeah, the biggest bitch with gaining weight in college is time constraints and quality of food. However, I'm not too worried about rapid weight gain at the moment because I already did gain a nice chunk of weight between August and November (went from 148lbs to 162lbs, and this was after I dropped the fat). I was just wondering if it was worth a shot to put on a quick 8kg and then drop the fat.

When I was gaining I was eating absurd amounts of meat, fruit,vegetables, nuts, potatoes, some breads/pizzas (totaling upwards of 7000 most days, sometimes more). But now that I'm at a nice stable weight after this gain, I don't like eating my breads/pizzas and the meat (here at least). The meat is such poor quality that too much doesn't sit well in my stomach, and I don't like grains in general, never have. On top of that, this semester only gives me a window of about an hour to eat food, which only allows me to eat 3500-4000 cals, which is still shy of what I eat when I'm not gaining.

And MOD, that is a fantastic article by the way.

Kevin Perry
04-16-2009, 08:30 AM
7000 cals a day. Thats insane. Well if you want to put on the 8kg then go for it.

Patrick Donnelly
04-16-2009, 11:52 AM
Brian, you eat 7000 calories per day to gain weight? Shit. I've got, like, 40lbs on you and I'm only doing the same. Perhaps I need to reconsider what I call "eating a lot."

Arden Cogar Jr.
04-16-2009, 03:23 PM
At this stage of my life, I'm beyond trying to gain mass. But I've found that I still, if I want to attain a certain strength goal, I have "to eat my way through the sticking points."

Oh the humanity.

All the best,
Arden

Brian DeGennaro
04-16-2009, 06:44 PM
Yeah, Pat, while I gained that 20lbs (including ~8lbs fat) between August and November/December I ate as much as I could handle at breakfast, lunch, and dinner. It was comical to see me put 7-10 plates and 7-10 bowls to get washed in the cafeteria, on top of the nuts I ate throughout the day. I realized that that first 12lbs of muscle was much needed because of the ease I gained it. Normally I eat 5000 to maintain.

Kevin Perry
04-16-2009, 07:04 PM
Brian,

you do realize you are a genetically gifted freak of nature right?

Brian DeGennaro
04-16-2009, 07:18 PM
And I refuse to accept that until my doctor shows me that. If I were genetically gifted I would be stronger now, and I would've been a much faster sprinter in high school. I'm also a TEENAGER as well so that is definitely going to be a huge factor in this.

Kevin Perry
04-16-2009, 07:36 PM
hell you and I are the same height but even in HS when I was very active I was never able to pack down that many calories. I think i'll ask the doc for a bigger stomach next time.

Patrick Donnelly
04-16-2009, 09:51 PM
I think i'll ask the doc for a bigger stomach next time.
A variation on gastric bypass?