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Matthieu Hertilus
04-19-2009, 05:01 PM
I've posted many times often in search of advice and opinions, which I greatly appreciate by the way, on my fat loss goals. However, my strength gains have stalled( which I expected) while my fat loss efforts are at a hault as well: would it be wrong to completely shift to a fat loss workout routine (i.e. higher volume, short rests, barbell/kettlebell complexes) from the strength and now Bulgarian cycles I've been following in effort to get rid of this fat once and for all, after which I would return to start a new strength or bulgarian cycle? Or is it a matter of adding more metcon on top of the bulgarian cycle + revamping my diet once again (i eat very cleanly: mainly paleo foods with no carbs other than that from veggies, nuts, and occasional pieces of fruit)?

Steven Low
04-19-2009, 05:54 PM
Dude, you've made so many posts over so many different forums, most of us probably don't know what you are actually doing.

So why don't you post up what you've been eating, and what you've been doing for training (and how long as well for each) and then we'll see where you're at. Stats for height, weight, lifts too.

It would also be good to make a training log as well.


My initial thought is you suffer from paralysis of analysis... trying to do too much at once. However, I hope I am wrong. :)

Garrett Smith
04-19-2009, 09:58 PM
Yes, post what you're actually doing, and how long you've actually been actively doing each thing.

Define your length of time for stalling as well. A week doesn't mean you've stalled.

Matthieu Hertilus
04-20-2009, 10:31 AM
you guys are right. i need to take a step back and look at what ive doing as far as training and diet is concerned and go from there

Steven Low
04-20-2009, 05:44 PM
you guys are right. i need to take a step back and look at what ive doing as far as training and diet is concerned and go from there
... so post up son.

Derek Weaver
04-20-2009, 07:10 PM
you guys are right. i need to take a step back and look at what ive doing as far as training and diet is concerned and go from there

What Steven said. If you're going to take the time to post all of these threads, at least take the time to respond to the requests from the people who you're asking for help from.

We know you're into Oly & PL... and you're focused on fat loss. What does that mean exactly?

how many cals/day and what is the composition of your diet?

What does your training look like? Sleep? Any other supplementation or recovery methods at work here?

Jay Cohen
04-21-2009, 09:50 AM
Ya, what they all said x 2.

Here is almost an undisputed fact:

80% of Body Composition is achieved in the kitchen, period, end of story.

If you don't have your diet dialed, and are not blessed with great genes, then no matter what activity you're pursuing, you screwed.

Matthew Bacorn
04-21-2009, 08:08 PM
In analyzing your goals, I would offer this:

legitimate concerns - too weak, too slow, in pain, unhappy

un-legitimate concerns - too fat, too skinny, not enough volume

just take care of the top list and the bottom one will disappear on its own

Jenna Beckson
04-22-2009, 01:06 PM
I totally agree with Matthew. One thing that worries me the most is how much everyone is concerned with fat loss. When we're focused on the negatives, we easily become more distressed. However, if we were to focus on how much stronger we can become, it gives us more drive to achieve our goals. Good luck with everything. And don't ever use the word fat on yourself!! I always call myself huggable :p

Jon Brody
04-22-2009, 01:10 PM
<<<<<< Pleasantly Plump

Matthieu Hertilus
04-22-2009, 01:13 PM
I totally agree with Matthew. One thing that worries me the most is how much everyone is concerned with fat loss. When we're focused on the negatives, we easily become more distressed. However, if we were to focus on how much stronger we can become, it gives us more drive to achieve our goals. Good luck with everything. And don't ever use the word fat on yourself!! I always call myself huggable :p

Thank you for the words of encouragement I needed that. While I wouldn't say fat necessarily, I'm not where I want to be, and I see nothing wrong some healthy determination in reaching a goal and trying to acquire as much knowledge as I can to get there.

Gavin Harrison
04-22-2009, 01:18 PM
<<<<<< Pleasantly Plump

Everybody loves a fat man. -Taft

Matthieu Hertilus
04-22-2009, 01:18 PM
What Steven said. If you're going to take the time to post all of these threads, at least take the time to respond to the requests from the people who you're asking for help from.

We know you're into Oly & PL... and you're focused on fat loss. What does that mean exactly?

how many cals/day and what is the composition of your diet?

What does your training look like? Sleep? Any other supplementation or recovery methods at work here?
As far as diet is concerned, I'd say I get about 1600 calories a day distributed in about 2 or 3 meals a day. (i usually go by eating when I'm hungry).
-Minimal carbs (usually 1 or 2 pieces of fruit post workout)
-Good fats (coconut oil, olive oil, almonds, walnuts, fish oil, soybean oil from hummus) ~60% of my diet
- Protein (fish, lean chicken and turkey, bcaa's) ~ 35%
- And plenty of veggies

Garrett Smith
04-22-2009, 02:03 PM
Keep it coming, Matthieu. We need to know the other stuff too.

Derek Weaver
04-22-2009, 04:02 PM
I know this tends to be a dissenting opinion, but calories count. If you go by eating when hungry, but don't have an idea on caloric intake then all the hunches are useless.

More info.... we're getting there.

Steven Low
04-22-2009, 06:09 PM
So why don't you post up what you've been eating, and what you've been doing for training (and how long as well for each) and then we'll see where you're at. Stats for height, weight, lifts too.

It would also be good to make a training log as well.

We got the bold.... kinda.... now we need the rest.

Matthieu Hertilus
04-22-2009, 06:36 PM
5'6", 170lbs, ~12% bf.

I've done the strength cycle for 3 weeks and I'm currently on week 4 of the Bulgrian Cycle. For the past 3 weeks I've omitted the metcon portion of the workout to keep my strength up. I work usually first thing in the morning (only time I can get it in).

-Morning: Some sort of caffeine (ex. Fast Twitch) w/ 5g o BCAAs and 2.5g creatine
-Post Workout: 5g BCAAs and 2.5g creatine (the past week I've added a bannana or two w/ it)
-Meal 1(1.5 - 2hrs later around 2pm): Veggies (raw brocoli or spinach) + 35g worth of protein (coming from fish, turkey, or chicken) + 30g worth of fat (coming from walnuts, almonds, olive oil, coconut oil, soybean oil from hummus)
-3hrs later (around 5pm) ~ 5g BCAAs and 2.5g creatine
-Meal 2(3hrs later around 8pm): Same as Meal 1
- Before Bed: 5g BCAAs, 2.5g creatine, ZMA's

Matthew Bacorn
04-22-2009, 08:54 PM
Hey Matthieu, how old are you?

Also, if you haven't yet, head on over to Whole Health Source (http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/) and get to reading

As for my personal opinion, i would suggest ditching the soybean oil and eating some animal fat

Not stressing out about it may help too (this is my big problem; it can become a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy)

Derek Weaver
04-22-2009, 11:31 PM
5'6", 170lbs, ~12% bf.

I've done the strength cycle for 3 weeks and I'm currently on week 4 of the Bulgrian Cycle. For the past 3 weeks I've omitted the metcon portion of the workout to keep my strength up. I work usually first thing in the morning (only time I can get it in).

-Morning: Some sort of caffeine (ex. Fast Twitch) w/ 5g o BCAAs and 2.5g creatine
-Post Workout: 5g BCAAs and 2.5g creatine (the past week I've added a bannana or two w/ it)
-Meal 1(1.5 - 2hrs later around 2pm): Veggies (raw brocoli or spinach) + 35g worth of protein (coming from fish, turkey, or chicken) + 30g worth of fat (coming from walnuts, almonds, olive oil, coconut oil, soybean oil from hummus)
-3hrs later (around 5pm) ~ 5g BCAAs and 2.5g creatine
-Meal 2(3hrs later around 8pm): Same as Meal 1
- Before Bed: 5g BCAAs, 2.5g creatine, ZMA's

You don't eat enough. You get what? maybe 70 grams/protein, 30-40 grams of carbs and 60 grams of fat?

It sounds like you've got ~150 lbs of lean body mass. Caloric intake for maintenance of bodyweight will put you anywhere between 2100-2400 calories/day.

At 70 grams of protein = 280 calories
30-50 grams of carbs = 120-150 calories
60 grams of fat = 540 calories

Total = a maximum of 970 calories/day. If you're consistently 1100 calories below maintenance, and with that diet composition then I think I get what's going on with body comp/weight. You can stand to get another 100 grams of protein in (400 calories, up to ~1350-1400/day now). Carbs aren't evil, but they're not really required for an Oly lifter either. Semi-ketogenic should do fine +/- ~ 100 grams/day.
Fill in the rest how you want to so long as protein is set at 1 gram/lb of bodyweight (for an oly lifter this is important).

Spend a few days figuring out what it is to eat at maintenance. BCAAs and creatine won't cover your caloric requirements, not even close. I don't even know what the caloric value of a "serving" is for either, but it ain't much.

After you've figured out how much you actually need to maintain bodyweight, no increase, no decrease... stay there for a couple of weeks. I'm guessing your metabolism has taken a whollop from undereating so heavily and could use the time to repair. Then adjust downwards accordingly until you start to lose again.

And read these article here. http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/category/fat-loss/physiology-fat-loss/page/2. Start with the series on Set Points, then move backwards onto Page 1 ending with the Body Weight Regulation Wrap Up.

That should keep you busy for a while and answer a lot of questions.

Robert Johnson
04-23-2009, 05:02 AM
I am about same body weight, I eat about double that amount, with much lighter weight lifting, and only one leg currently functioning.

Matthieu Hertilus
04-23-2009, 05:31 AM
Derek, I suspected I may have been undereating but I've posted a little while back as to the fact that I don't get that hungry, or I should say I get full quite easily (especially from all the veggies). Should I still try to force myself to get in more calories?

Garrett Smith
04-23-2009, 06:03 AM
If the bulk from veggies is keeping you from eating enough, you may have to reduce them, or eat more starchy veggies (ie. sweet potatoes, parsnips, carrots) to get more calories from them (and add fat to them, of course).

Derek Weaver
04-23-2009, 09:55 AM
Derek, I suspected I may have been undereating but I've posted a little while back as to the fact that I don't get that hungry, or I should say I get full quite easily (especially from all the veggies). Should I still try to force myself to get in more calories?

Yes. Do what Dr. G said. Whether to add more fat is up for debate in my opinion. Whatever you run best on is what you should increase. Not a whole lot of need for carbs for an oly lifter, but if you run better on carbs and continue to lean out, then switch those figures for carbs and fat (i.e, lower fat, higher carbs).

You've got enough caloric room just to get to maintenance that you can give yourself a week or two shifting the two macros around.