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View Full Version : Just the O'Lifts, ma'am...


Brian Lawyer
05-09-2009, 07:35 PM
My coach wants me to stop all strength training and just do O'Lifts for a while. Anyone know where I can find a program with just O'Lifts or any suggestions on how to put together a structured program with just O'Lifts. I was thinking something approx 3-4 days per week for 4 weeks or so.

Steven Low
05-09-2009, 08:22 PM
Why can't your coach do it?

Also.... PMenu main page? Or Mike's gym?

Chris H Laing
05-10-2009, 03:16 AM
Are you allowed to squat or do the power versions of the lifts?

Brian Lawyer
05-10-2009, 05:22 AM
Why can't your coach do it?

Also.... PMenu main page? Or Mike's gym?

Steven, Thanks for stating the obvious...j/k:) . When I say just the O'Lifts I mean he literally just wants me doing Snatches and Clean and Jerks for a while.

Chris, My coach is really wierd about any technique related exercises or power versions. He says all those do are help you get good at those exercises. I..e if I want to get good at snatch balances then train snatch balances. That being said, he is not totally against them. When I was first learning the lifts and had virtually no third pull he did prescribe some Shrug unders and for overhead work he prescribed snatch balances. At this point in my development he is pretty adamant about just doing the O'Lifts.

I had a couple thoughts. One of which was to follow PMenu Main page or Mike's gym and just cut out any Squats, deadlifts, presses, etc. Still leave in the technique stuff, hangs, powers, balances, pulls, etc.

Another thought was the 21 day bulgarian cycle on Mike's gym page. It is basically only the O'Lifts or a power version with a BS or FS at the end of each work out. So that program would be really easy just to cut out the squats and make pure O'Lifts. Last time I tried the 21 day bulgarian cycle I got frustrated with it because when I get in my 90-95% 1rm range for snatches I get real inconsistent like about 50/50. Most of the bulgarian cycle keeps you around 90-95% the whole time so if I am only hitting 1 for 2 or 3 for 4 it turns into a real frustrating workout. I could modify the program and take all the percentages down ~2-3% which should put me in a range where I am more consistent.

George Mounce
05-10-2009, 05:38 AM
Your coach needs some humility and needs to realize that if you don't work on imbalances and strength needs from all directions, it won't matter if you snatch and CJ all the time, because you aren't going to get better (and guess what, you just said you aren't!)

The reason why the CA WOD/Mike's Gym WOD and such work is that they make you a better Oly athlete by hitting not only strengths, but weaknesses.

Don Stevenson
05-10-2009, 06:14 AM
There is nothing wrong with cutting a program down to the basics but cutting out all assistance exercises like squats and pulls is in my opinion taking it a bit too far and won't give you the best results.

If i'm working with someone specifically on Olympic lifting and they need an abbreviated program then I program in at least one lift from each of the following categories each day because I believe that they are the three main elements of Olympic lifting.

Pulling power

Cleans
Power cleans
Clean Pulls
Snatch pulls

Leg Strength

Front Squat
Back Squat

Getting under the bar

Jerks
Snatches
Snatch balance
Hang Clean

Garrett Smith
05-10-2009, 07:22 AM
Your coach needs to give you this program or tell you where to find it.

Brian Lawyer
05-10-2009, 07:58 AM
Your coach needs some humility and needs to realize that if you don't work on imbalances and strength needs from all directions, it won't matter if you snatch and CJ all the time, because you aren't going to get better (and guess what, you just said you aren't!)

The reason why the CA WOD/Mike's Gym WOD and such work is that they make you a better Oly athlete by hitting not only strengths, but weaknesses.

OK guys, before all the regulars jump in here with there own 2 cents (i.e. George, steven, Garrett) let's stick to my original question. I was just inquiring if anyone knew of a more structured program that basically just did O'lifts. That being said, I do value the regular guys inputs. You all usually give me great informtion.

George, working imbalances is exactly what my coach is doing. As I noted above, he is not totally opposed to technical work. He watches me and prescribes things to fix my deficiencies. When the third pull was my problem he made me do shrug unders. When overhead strength was an issue he prescribed Jerk Supports. Now he thinks it is in my best interest to just do the lifts for a while. I can already squat or deadlift plenty of weight so I tend to agree with him. I'm going to give it a try for 3 or 4 weeks. I am just trying to find some structure to follow.

Garrett Smith
05-10-2009, 08:37 AM
Brian,
My coach is two hours away. One of his biggest contributions to my lifting was sending me a program over email. I don't understand why you are looking other places than directly from your coach.

Here's a program:
Day 1 - Snatch
Day 2 - C&J
Day 3 - Snatch and C&J

To ask your coach for sets and reps shouldn't be too much to ask for, really. Especially when all you are being told to do is the competition lifts!

Another reason to ask your coach for a program is that strictly competition lift programs seem to be a rarity--nearly every program adds other lifts.

Brian Lawyer
05-10-2009, 10:44 AM
Brian,
Here's a program:
Day 1 - Snatch
Day 2 - C&J
Day 3 - Snatch and C&J


Garrett, That is actually a decent idea. I may give it a try.

Here was my coaches recommendation, "I recommend the Tommy Kono program of three days a week. He as well as I think you should read your body on the workout day during the workout to plan the weight. These set in stone workouts from my years of training/coaching just do not work very well. "

I tend to agree with my coach. I think there are a lot of problems with these boxed (i.e. mainpage WOD) workouts. I have been to a few different O'Lifting gyms now and the 3 days per week apporoach above is actually how a lot of O'Lifting camps seem to approach things. They basically have 3 classes per week, MWF. Lifters show up and start snatching. Coach observes and makes up the program from there. The coach observes the lifters, corrects them with coaching cues, tells them to drop/add weight, tells them to move on to CJ's, then gives them some assistance either strength or technique exercises to do at the end based on what they saw during practice.

All that being said, I am not a regular at my local O'Lifting gym. I train mostly on my own. Hence why I was trying to find something with some semblance of structure to plan my workouts around.

glennpendlay
05-10-2009, 11:06 AM
Brian,

I'm not sure what relationship you and Richard have, but I do find it odd that he told you to do snatch/clean and jerk but didnt give you any ideas about specific programming. Why dont you just ask him what he recomends?

But I do have to go against the grain here, and say that from what I've seen of your lifting, a snatch and clean and jerk program sounds good to me. I might add in front squats, but thats about it.

I think we have talked about this type of program before...

Mon/wed/fri/

12-15 snatches. Start around 80 kilos and move up as able.
8-12 clean and jerks. Start around 100 kilos and move up as able.
2-3 singles on front squat, heavy as you are able.

If you are fairly effecient at the Olympic lifts, that is, your lifts are significant percentages of your squat/deadlift strength, then this is an INCREDIBLY demanding program.


I will add one more thing here. And its in no way meant to be disprespectful to anyone else on this forum or thread. The idea that you have to do lots of squatting, heavy pulls or deadlifts, upper body work, etc, to gain strength or to get a good workout when OLing is false. I believe this idea comes from the experience of most, who are not specializing on the Olympic lifts, and whose effeciency and technique are not really great.

Take your "average" general strength athlete, crossfitter, gym rat, who might deadlift 450lbs, squat 400lbs, clean 225, and do an ugly powersnatch with 175. The feeling and effect that such a person will get from doing the Olympic lifts is COMPLETELY different from the feeling that someone who is specializing on the lifts, and pretty good and effecient at the lifts will have.

10 clean and jerks with 300lbs, when your front squat max is 320 and your deadlift and backsquat max is 350... is a whole different proposition.

Again, this is not meant to disparage people who arent OLers. Its very cool that people who are more "generalists" include the Olympic lifts in their programs. I am always happy to see that, and everyone should know what their max clean is, or they cant really call themselves a lifter! Specializing is not for everyone, or even for most, and I have the utmost respect for those who are all-around strong and in good shape. going in that direction myself lately, in fact.

But, just like the guy who just got his first muscle-up still doesnt really know anything about how a high level competitive rings routine feels, the guy whose clean is 50% of his deadlift doesnt really know much about how a workout of snatch and clean and jerk feels to a skilled competitive lifter.

glenn

Dave Van Skike
05-10-2009, 11:28 AM
this makes me want to try the oly lifts but then I think how long it would take to get from the shitty powerclean i have now to squat clean with a decent % of my max pull ... I just don't have that many years left.

Brian Lawyer
05-10-2009, 11:39 AM
I will add one more thing here. And its in no way meant to be disprespectful to anyone else on this forum or thread. The idea that you have to do lots of squatting, heavy pulls or deadlifts, upper body work, etc, to gain strength or to get a good workout when OLing is false. I believe this idea comes from the experience of most, who are not specializing on the Olympic lifts, and whose effeciency and technique are not really great.

Yes everybody, I do talk to my coach I was just seeing what ideas you all had, which is not very many apparently:) . While this thread has been growing my coach and I came up with a few good ideas.

Thanks Glenn. What you said above was what I was trying to explain to these guys except you definitly know how to articulate it much more. Plus you are more authoratative than I am. Also, coach and I have a good relationship except that sometimes I don't listen to him or believe what he tells me...ha.

So as noted above, I have been going back and forth with my coach via email while this thread has been growing. He is not much of a blogger. Here is what we came up with for those who may be in a similar training situation as myself, that is, you have a decent strength base and really just need to get consistent with the Snatch and CJ.

Basic Criteria: 3 days per week split, 1 hour to 1.5 hour per workout, if I feel bad go lighter, if I feel good go heavier, use the following workout options which can be done in any order or any frequency:

Workout 1:
sn 4-6 sets of 3 reps with working weight (working weight = 65% - 75% depending how I feel)
CJ 5-7 sets of two CJ's with working weight

Workout 2:
20/20 workout. AKA Joe mills workout. I really like doing this workout. This one is great at helping you get consistent with your lifts. Look it up online if you don't know what I am talking about.

Workout 3:
Sn 12-18 singles on the minute 80-90% depending on how I feel.
CJ 15-21 singles on the 1.5 minute 80-90%

Workout 4:
Max per day. Do proper warmup reps and sets then take 3 attempts at a PR or close to a PR.

Workout 5 (what glenn said above):
12-15 snatches. Start around 80 kilos and move up as able.
8-12 clean and jerks. Start around 100 kilos and move up as able.
2-3 singles on front squat, heavy as you are able.

For any of these you can add the heavy single front squats like Glenn said.

Questions/comments....

Brian Lawyer
05-10-2009, 11:45 AM
So there you all go, "Just the O'Lifts, ma'am. Nothing but the O'Lifts". Let me qualify the above program by saying I am in no way qualified to give any body a workout program...haha. But I am going to try the above program myself for a month or so. I got 5 days to choose from which should give me some decent variety. I have two great O'lifting coaches I talk with on a regular basis who both seem to agree I just need to O'Lift for a little while and take out all the fluff for a little while.

Brian Lawyer
05-10-2009, 12:09 PM
I'm not sure what relationship you and Richard have...

Side note to Glenn, Richard says I analyze too much and read too many books when I should just snatch and CJ. I have to agree with him and admit he is probably right as evidenced by this thread I started.....have a good one!

Timothy Scalise
05-10-2009, 12:21 PM
There is nothing wrong with cutting the fat in the program. the Tommy Kono program is snatch, clean and jerk, pulls, and front squats as it is in his book, Tommy is my coach, and he doesnt really care if you can do a heavy pull or not, but how much you can snatch and clean and jerk. If I was going to do 3 days a week I would do both lifts all 3 days, or one lift mon, wed, both on friday like G said. if you only did one the first 2 days, then I would do lots of singles, work up to a daily max, back down and up again. Personaly I would do both lifts both days just change the order up so one day was more of a focus on snatch, while the next would be on cleans. so run that by your coach and see what he thinks, and good luck.

Brian Lawyer
05-10-2009, 12:32 PM
... Tommy is my coach...

Timothy, You get to train with Kono! I thought I was cool because I got to train with Glenn a couple times...no offense Glenn...

glennpendlay
05-10-2009, 12:55 PM
Timothy, You get to train with Kono! I thought I was cool because I got to train with Glenn a couple times...no offense Glenn...

Tommy Kono? who's he? :D


I've talked to Tommy a number of times, though not so much about training. But I'm familiar with his philosophies on OLing. They are the same as the majority of other successful coaches... put all the effort you can into quality work on the competitive lifts. Big squats and deadlifts dont matter much. And the mental side of the game is much bigger than most people think.

Timothy, do you think this is an accurate representation of Tommy's thoughts on training?

glenn

Timothy Scalise
05-10-2009, 01:10 PM
I was pulling once, about 30 kg more than what I could clean, and he said , it looks like a deadlift with a shrug, use less weight so you can be explosive. I love Tommy, I in no way can fully relay Tommy at this point, as im still learning, I do say that he is always preaching technique. I went a long time without training with him and picked up some bad habbits, two weeks ago I worked with him one day, and my max lifts are now easier just from fixing my starting position. As far as training he usally says 3 days a week, snatch, clean and jerk, snatch pulls, clean pull, front squat. He told me that about a half an hour on snatch and clean and jerk, half an hour on pulls, half an hour on squat 2 hours, anything over that and your just tired and picking up bad form. Also, if your thinking too much, wich you tend to do when you first start training with him cause he has SO MUCH INFO to give, you over think everything lol, then usally just move on to the next thing. He is all about quatlity training, not pushing past what you are good with. no point in doing something if it is not crisp, clean, and technical. Seriously though that guy can watch you lift 3 times, and pick it apart to the smallest thing and work wonders if your willing to listen.

Timothy Scalise
05-10-2009, 01:14 PM
There is nothing wrong with cutting the fat in the program. the Tommy Kono program is snatch, clean and jerk, pulls, and front squats as it is in his book, Tommy is my coach, and he doesnt really care if you can do a heavy pull or not, but how much you can snatch and clean and jerk. If I was going to do 3 days a week I would do both lifts all 3 days, or one lift mon, wed, both on friday like G said. if you only did one the first 2 days, then I would do lots of singles, work up to a daily max, back down and up again. Personaly I would do both lifts both days just change the order up so one day was more of a focus on snatch, while the next would be on cleans. so run that by your coach and see what he thinks, and good luck.

let me fix something, it doesnt seem to matter to him if you can pull heavy if your goal is to snatch and clean and jerk, it matters how much you can clean and jerk. That is what I have picked up. He is big on squating though, the guys that all train with him, told me that he used to not train people unless they could squat 400, I havnt asked him that so I dont know for sure. But he is always saying to get a big squat to have big O lifts

Brian Lawyer
05-11-2009, 12:35 PM
I polished off my listing and compiled the attached document. We'll call this version 1.0. It's open for comments, mainly open for suggestions of workouts to add to the list.

Brian Lawyer
05-11-2009, 12:41 PM
Let me qualify my above post by saying that list I compiled is open for suggestions of legitimate olympic lifting routines for full time Olympic lifters. Note that on my list I showed which coaches recommended the different routines. I don't want to get blasted by all the crossfitters with their AMRAP snatch and CJ suggestions.

Greg Everett
05-11-2009, 12:52 PM
I haven't actually read this thread beyond the original post, so forgive me if this has already been posted.... brian - try Burgener's "bulgarian" program. 5-week deal available on his site that is nothing but sn, cj and fs.

Garrett Smith
05-11-2009, 12:53 PM
Brian,
Here's your new program. Alternate days of Grace and Isabel. Problem solved. :p :p :p

Arden Cogar Jr.
05-11-2009, 01:30 PM
Brian,
Here's your new program. Alternate days of Grace and Isabel. Problem solved. :p :p :p


All I have to say about that is ....Oh my. :D

All the best,
Arden

Arden Cogar Jr.
05-11-2009, 01:40 PM
Brian,
What's the programming - week to week - layout going to look like.

I get the varoius types of workouts limited to snatch and clean & jerk. Your coach obviously feels you need to work on the full movements to get better at the full movements. Once you technique has improved then you go back to the "those silly strength" exercises.

What was it, Shane Hammon, a dude that could legimiately squat 1000 in competitive powerlifing (likely over 800 raw), used an empty bar for six or eight months before his coach let him use a plate?

Same example, but less extreme in that you are actually allowed to move weights.

My initial reaction to a lot of the percentages listed is that you might be going to heavy to frequently. I would not recommend going over 90% that often, especially for a novice to intermediate lifter. Hell, I don't recommend going over 85% that often for a novice to intermediate lifter. You need to use "practice weights" to practice. I consider 75 to 80% good practice weights. Perfect the technique and then move foreward.

I'm finally at a position in my own development where I feel as though I can finally start moving some weights over 85%. I'm still a novice, but my technique is finally to where I need to start moving weights that will push my technique. If that makes any sense?

Good luck. Great topic.

All the best,
Arden

Brian Lawyer
05-11-2009, 02:39 PM
Brian,
What's the programming - week to week - layout going to look like.


Arden, Check out the attachment I did above. I don't know if you saw that or if you were referring to the listing I actually cut and pasted into the thread. I had to do a zip file because CA forums doesn't let you have a word document over 19kb.

I alluded to the programming in the basic concepts section at the top of my attached file. Basically I am going to try choosing from that list of workouts for 3 days per week approximately 4 weeks. If I feel good, lift heavier. If I feel bad, lift lighter.

I know what you mean about the percents working above 90% too much. My coach hates being tied down to percents and I tend to agree with him. You will see on that attachment I gave pretty broad % ranges to choose from and some of the workouts stop at about 90% or so.

Timothy Scalise
05-11-2009, 02:56 PM
the workout 5 on your link... the one Glenn gave you is pretty much what I do, but I do pulls after on mon,wed, fri and front squats on tues , thrus, sat. I let how i feel dictate how much I end up lifting that day. I just started this a couple weeks ago, and it feels great somedays im not as sharp as I would like, but those are the days I go lighter and really drive form. sounds like you got lots of great advice from some good coaches, listen to the people with proven results and experiance I say.

Brian Lawyer
05-11-2009, 03:30 PM
the workout 5 on your link... the one Glenn gave you is pretty much what I do.... sounds like you got lots of great advice from some good coaches, listen to the people with proven results and experiance I say.

Tim, If you haven't tried it yet try that 20/20 workout I listed the first one. I really like that one.

I usually go to the forum because the forum guys are really good at general brainstorming. Other than that, I usually go by what the legitimate coaches say.

Timothy Scalise
05-11-2009, 03:47 PM
word, and for the record I did not mean that as a knock to anyone in the forum, there is lots of great minds in here. I might try that 20/20 out, im not really doing much other than the lifts and squats right now though, as I got a meet comint up in june.

glennpendlay
05-11-2009, 03:47 PM
Brian,

What was it, Shane Hammon, a dude that could legimiately squat 1000 in competitive powerlifing (likely over 800 raw), used an empty bar for six or eight months before his coach let him use a plate? Arden

I've been friends with Shane since way before he made the switch to OL... he didnt go 6 months before putting weight on the bar... He did a few workouts with the bar and then added weight slowly... In fact I believe his first competition was 3-4 months after he started OL, and he clean and jerked about 400lbs at that first meet.

glenn

Timothy Scalise
05-11-2009, 03:51 PM
actually I looked again and that 20/20 does look fun probably will give it a go here

Brian Lawyer
05-11-2009, 03:53 PM
Brian,
Here's your new program. Alternate days of Grace and Isabel. Problem solved. :p :p :p
Seriously, after doing a full Snatch and CJ workout my coach had me Clean 100kg as many times as I could, and he's not even a crossfit coach. Based on what he saw of my cleans he just wanted me to start cleaning until I got fatigued because he says I get loosened up and clean more fluidly when I am tired and have to rely on good form not brute force.

Brian Lawyer
05-11-2009, 03:58 PM
actually I looked again and that 20/20 does look fun probably will give it a go here

Wear a digital wrist watch helps so you can track your on the minute reps and rest time. Don't do too much warmup as I think the first set of 5 otm is still intended to be in the warmup range. If I miss one I still like to get all my reps in so I just wait till the next minute for my next attempt. But, as I noted on my sheet, I am getting really close to the perfect 20/20 with no misses.

Timothy Scalise
05-12-2009, 04:10 PM
so I was going to do the 20/20 today, got out there to warm up, and went to do a power snatch with the bar, and cracked myself in the head very hard, you could hear the bar reverb. didnt think much of it eventhough all the guys that lift down there were going wow, then I saw the drops of blood on the platform lol. Tommy Kono was telling me about this one world record holder he knew that had a scar on his forehead from something similar. I started, but couldnt finish so I packed it up. Got to talk to Tommy today got some help on techniuque work as well and I asked him what he though were good assistance exercises as this thread got me wondering what he thought about them. He looks at me and goes "Tim, the only assistance work you need is the front squat."

Brian Lawyer
05-12-2009, 04:29 PM
"Tim, the only assistance work you need is the front squat."

So sounds like you are in the same boat as me training wise. We must have similar physiques and backgrounds since both our coaches want us to just work the O'lifts for a while and throw in some front squats if we really have to get our strength fix. I am sure that prescription doesn't go for everyone.... But for us that is why I started to compile that list I made.

Sucks you hit your head. I have done that before but haven't drawn blood yet. So I wonder what we do that makes us smack ourselves in the head. Do we start pulling through with the 3rd pull to early, lean forward too much...

Is it going to close up on it's own or are you going to have to get stitches.

Timothy Scalise
05-12-2009, 04:44 PM
it looked like I took an elbow in a UFC fight at first, was dripping, I put my hand up and made my way to the paper towels, my hand was covered in blood, got lots of looks from the older people in the gym I felt kind of bad. not gonna get stitches, just sitting here with gauze and a bandaid on it, it might scar, but eh no biggie.

Greg Everett
05-14-2009, 09:00 AM
Good points here. It's interesting to note that this becomes more and more obvious as one progresses with the lifts. That is, as a lifter begins sn/cjing greater and greater weights and that gap between squats/DLs/etc closes further, it becomes clear that no amount of work on squts/DLs/etc will continue pushing them far enough to maintain those earlier gaps, and the attempts to only limits the development of the sn/cj... the trick is deciding how much of what and when each lifter needs. When a grown man comes in who can only back squat 70 kg, he has some squatting and pulling in his near future...


Brian,

I'm not sure what relationship you and Richard have, but I do find it odd that he told you to do snatch/clean and jerk but didnt give you any ideas about specific programming. Why dont you just ask him what he recomends?

But I do have to go against the grain here, and say that from what I've seen of your lifting, a snatch and clean and jerk program sounds good to me. I might add in front squats, but thats about it.

I think we have talked about this type of program before...

Mon/wed/fri/

12-15 snatches. Start around 80 kilos and move up as able.
8-12 clean and jerks. Start around 100 kilos and move up as able.
2-3 singles on front squat, heavy as you are able.

If you are fairly effecient at the Olympic lifts, that is, your lifts are significant percentages of your squat/deadlift strength, then this is an INCREDIBLY demanding program.


I will add one more thing here. And its in no way meant to be disprespectful to anyone else on this forum or thread. The idea that you have to do lots of squatting, heavy pulls or deadlifts, upper body work, etc, to gain strength or to get a good workout when OLing is false. I believe this idea comes from the experience of most, who are not specializing on the Olympic lifts, and whose effeciency and technique are not really great.

Take your "average" general strength athlete, crossfitter, gym rat, who might deadlift 450lbs, squat 400lbs, clean 225, and do an ugly powersnatch with 175. The feeling and effect that such a person will get from doing the Olympic lifts is COMPLETELY different from the feeling that someone who is specializing on the lifts, and pretty good and effecient at the lifts will have.

10 clean and jerks with 300lbs, when your front squat max is 320 and your deadlift and backsquat max is 350... is a whole different proposition.

Again, this is not meant to disparage people who arent OLers. Its very cool that people who are more "generalists" include the Olympic lifts in their programs. I am always happy to see that, and everyone should know what their max clean is, or they cant really call themselves a lifter! Specializing is not for everyone, or even for most, and I have the utmost respect for those who are all-around strong and in good shape. going in that direction myself lately, in fact.

But, just like the guy who just got his first muscle-up still doesnt really know anything about how a high level competitive rings routine feels, the guy whose clean is 50% of his deadlift doesnt really know much about how a workout of snatch and clean and jerk feels to a skilled competitive lifter.

glenn

Alex Bond
05-14-2009, 09:02 AM
Workout 3:
Sn 12-18 singles on the minute 80-90% depending on how I feel.
CJ 15-21 singles on the 1.5 minute 80-90%


This is an incredible workout. I had a blast doing it. Never really got out of breath, but I was soaked in sweat.

Arden Cogar Jr.
05-14-2009, 09:11 AM
Brian,
What you have written and what's in the zip file sounds like a good plan to me. Just listen to you body as you go along.

All the best,
Arden

Arden, Check out the attachment I did above. I don't know if you saw that or if you were referring to the listing I actually cut and pasted into the thread. I had to do a zip file because CA forums doesn't let you have a word document over 19kb.

I alluded to the programming in the basic concepts section at the top of my attached file. Basically I am going to try choosing from that list of workouts for 3 days per week approximately 4 weeks. If I feel good, lift heavier. If I feel bad, lift lighter.

I know what you mean about the percents working above 90% too much. My coach hates being tied down to percents and I tend to agree with him. You will see on that attachment I gave pretty broad % ranges to choose from and some of the workouts stop at about 90% or so.

Arden Cogar Jr.
05-14-2009, 09:13 AM
I've been friends with Shane since way before he made the switch to OL... he didnt go 6 months before putting weight on the bar... He did a few workouts with the bar and then added weight slowly... In fact I believe his first competition was 3-4 months after he started OL, and he clean and jerked about 400lbs at that first meet.

glenn


glenn,
I didn't realize that. I knew that he clean and jerked that much in his first comp, but I was under the impression he was brought along very slowly on purpose because of all his potential.

I would have been awesome had someone gotten ahold of him when he was a teenager. Hell, it was awesome anyway you look at it. Unreal power in his legs and trunk.

All the best, Arden

glennpendlay
05-14-2009, 09:20 AM
Arden,

Yes Shane was truly awesome. Even more than his lifts suggest, if that possible. I've trained with him and been able to watch him do some amazing stuff. Shane had so much power in those legs it was almost inhuman. And to top it all off, he was, and is, about the nicest and most humble guy you could ever meet.

glenn

Brian Lawyer
05-14-2009, 09:41 AM
Here is the updated list. I don't think I changed much on the actual list of work outs but I tweaked my introductory paragraphs in an attempt to give a lifter a little more concise direction.

Gant Grimes
05-14-2009, 11:07 PM
Other than that, I usually go by what the legitimate coaches say.

This has never failed me.

Arden Cogar Jr.
05-18-2009, 03:21 PM
Brian,
Looks good to me. Let us know how it works out.

All the best,
Arden

Brian Lawyer
10-03-2009, 07:25 PM
Your coach needs some humility and needs to realize that if you don't work on imbalances and strength needs from all directions, it won't matter if you snatch and CJ all the time, because you aren't going to get better (and guess what, you just said you aren't!)

The reason why the CA WOD/Mike's Gym WOD and such work is that they make you a better Oly athlete by hitting not only strengths, but weaknesses.

Thought I would update this post. There were some people who freaked out at the thought of just snatching and CJ with no strength work. George Mounce for example. My last competition was May 10. Since then I took a month off from lifting and did nothing but Snatches and CJ's all summer. I just did a competition today and set a snatch PR at 236lbs and Clean PR at 278lbs. Missed the Jerk though. I just thought you all would like to know the world didn't implode because I stopped doing strength and all the other supplemental exercises.

glennpendlay
10-04-2009, 01:01 AM
good job, brian!

michael cooley
10-04-2009, 04:42 PM
Here is what we came up with for those who may be in a similar training situation as myself, that is, you have a decent strength base and really just need to get consistent with the Snatch and CJ.

Basic Criteria: 3 days per week split, 1 hour to 1.5 hour per workout, if I feel bad go lighter, if I feel good go heavier, use the following workout options which can be done in any order or any frequency:

Workout 1:
sn 4-6 sets of 3 reps with working weight (working weight = 65% - 75% depending how I feel)
CJ 5-7 sets of two CJ's with working weight

Workout 2:
20/20 workout. AKA Joe mills workout. I really like doing this workout. This one is great at helping you get consistent with your lifts. Look it up online if you don't know what I am talking about.

Workout 3:
Sn 12-18 singles on the minute 80-90% depending on how I feel.
CJ 15-21 singles on the 1.5 minute 80-90%

Workout 4:
Max per day. Do proper warmup reps and sets then take 3 attempts at a PR or close to a PR.

Workout 5 (what glenn said above):
12-15 snatches. Start around 80 kilos and move up as able.
8-12 clean and jerks. Start around 100 kilos and move up as able.
2-3 singles on front squat, heavy as you are able.

For any of these you can add the heavy single front squats like Glenn said.

Questions/comments....

Is this basically what you ended up doing, or did you modify your approach?

mpc

Arien Malec
10-04-2009, 04:44 PM
Congrats, Brian! Strong work.

(But imagine what you would have totaled if you had done low bar squats, limit deads, and box squats?

Sorry -- couldn't resist)

Brian Lawyer
10-05-2009, 08:34 AM
Is this basically what you ended up doing, or did you modify your approach?

mpc

Michael,
I took a very intuitive approach. One of my new favorite workouts was to start with 2cleans+1Jerk, 5-7 sets. Then finish with singles of snatches. I started doing this because I felt my cleans were way off but my snatches felt OK. It paid off because I set a PR clean at the meet which felt light. There is actually a zip file attachment to one of my above posts that lays out the workout options better than that post you quoted.

Here are the links to my competition lifts. There was some possible elbow flexion on a few lifts but the judges here are pretty liberal. My jerks felt out of whack the whole time. I wasn't really getting my head through and the bar back over my scapula well. That fault was really exagerated on the last jerk.

BW = 90kg (198lbs)
Snatch
1 attempt 95kg (210lb)
http://www.youtube.com/user/blaw1979#play/uploads/5/lyhQqsmBG2c

2 attempt 100kg (220lb)
http://www.youtube.com/user/blaw1979#play/uploads/4/ZVCcy6Fd4R4

3 attempt 107kg (236lb)
http://www.youtube.com/user/blaw1979#play/uploads/3/N_eAaDl66cE


Clean/Jerk
1 attempt 115kg (242lb)
http://www.youtube.com/user/blaw1979#play/uploads/2/dPFt9eWMPEw

2 attempt 120kg (265lb)
http://www.youtube.com/user/blaw1979#play/uploads/1/jntFZYLykG8

3 attempt 126kg (278lb)
http://www.youtube.com/user/blaw1979#play/uploads/0/E7pluY2RWSo

glennpendlay
10-05-2009, 09:02 AM
your definately looking better than last time I saw you, except for the jerks... you need some practice with lighter jerk weights, focusing on getting in front of the bar, and getting more weight on the front foot. nice pulls though, both on snatch and clean.

michael cooley
10-05-2009, 10:03 AM
Terrific work, Brian! I think I've seen you lift out there at Van Alstyne before (I have trained regularly at Spoon's over the years).

Just for kicks, you did did leave out one other set-rep scheme that is a favorite of Flemming's. If you train at Spoon's sometimes, you've probably seen up on the board:

70% x 6 (as a set; not singles)
80% x 4
85% x 3
90% x 2
95% x 1
85% x 3 x 5 sets

Even doing just one lift for the day, it's an obscene amount of work, and near-impossible for me to complete (I'm 38 years old) without completely bonking for the next week. That said, I know Travis slogs through this one periodically (I think for just one lift or the other in a given session).

mpc

Brian Lawyer
10-05-2009, 10:15 AM
I updated my word document with workouts 7 and 8. I added Michael Cooley's workout noted above. See the below attachment.

michael cooley
10-05-2009, 10:28 AM
I updated my word document with workouts 7 and 8. I added Michael Cooley's workout noted above. See the below attachment.

No, Brian, no! :eek: The world's just not ready for that! :p

mpc

Keith Miller
10-06-2009, 04:54 PM
Very good stuff, and your lifting was very good Saturday!! I'll be following this for the next 4 weeks leading up to american Masters.