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Yael Grauer
06-19-2009, 09:54 PM
Just wondering if anybody's supplemented with phosphatidylserine and what your results were.

Steven Low
04-02-2010, 08:26 PM
I'm going to resurrect this thread.

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Great stuff, basically an anti-cortisol supplement. Very good if you're dealing with significant amounts of volume or stress on your body or somewhere thereabouts of overreaching/overtraining. Been helping me recover pretty well from my fatigue although I still need to hardcore rest more than I have been.

---------------------------------

That said....

I've been on the lookout for a cheap (quality) source of course...

I've hit up this one on iherb to good effect:
http://www.iherb.com/Life-Enhancement-Phosphatidyl-Serine-90-Capsules/10248?at=0

It comes to approximately ~5 mg per cent or so.

So far best deal I've found is from puritan's pride albeit can't vouch for quality of it.... if you get the combo of buy 2 get 3 free you'll get 5 bottles for ~99 which is approximately ~9 mg/cents or almost 2x as cheap per.

Add in some random coupon on the web for like ~10% off or so and it goes to about 10 mg/cents which is exactly double.

http://www.puritan.com/lecithin-064/neuro-ps-300-mg-017630

Only thing I'm concerned about is that it's in junky soybean oils and stuff, but then again 95% of the products I've looked at are as well. There's so little of it considering it's a soft gel that any fish oil intake should override the o-6 ratios, so I'm not too worried.

It's pretty much overpriced everywhere else including places like poliquin's site. You get ratios of < 2mg/cent in most cases.

I only believe in vitamin D and fish oil... but this stuff has certainly been making a case for how well it's helped improve quality of sleep and recovery capability.

(Haven't tried BCAAs or anything for what it's worth though...). Been getting my whey/casein mix from whole choco milk. Need to add my colostrum to it to see if it's better though.


Am likely going to write up an article on this.

Thoughts? Comments?

Steven Low
04-04-2010, 07:25 PM
Alrighty, well no one responded.

I'm gonna bite the bullet and order this stuff. I'll let you guys know how it goes comparitively.

If it's good I'll have enough of a supply to go up to 1g/day or so, and hopefully be able to recover to full capacity within a few weeks. As it is right now I don't have enough left of the Life Enhancement stuff to go hardcore like that.


Nevermind. Ordered. Good to go...

Garrett Smith
04-04-2010, 09:10 PM
I use it with folks when they have demonstrated high cortisol levels via the Adrenal Stress Index test (Diagnos-Techs).

A typical symptom of this is when someone can't fall asleep to begin with or wakes up middle of the night and simply cannot fall back asleep. However, I want to have the test to be sure that's what is going on.

Using it willy-nilly is hit or miss. I just had an athlete test with low cortisol levels at every time point. PS would not help him at all.

Steven Low
04-04-2010, 09:29 PM
Yep, this was a good read as well:

http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_nutrition/the_truth_about_adrenal_fatigue

I had pretty much the classic signs of screwed up cortisol output. Helped me sleep better significantly pretty instantly as well, and stay asleep longer. Has done me well.

Wayne Riddle
04-05-2010, 02:41 AM
Keep us updated Steven. :)

Tony Ferous
04-05-2010, 05:22 AM
You could try this powdered stuff, ive never ordered from them but they do seem pretty cheap, even for brand name stuff.
Anyone used their bulk powders?

http://www.bulknutrition.com/?products_id=2077

I bought a Poliquin podcast at the weekend(mass gain one), he mentions lowering cortisol serveral times, 2 tips being taking 1g of mg in split doses after 4pm and stretching before bed.

PS is meant to good for improving memory too of course.

Steven Low
04-05-2010, 06:22 AM
You could try this powdered stuff, ive never ordered from them but they do seem pretty cheap, even for brand name stuff.
Anyone used their bulk powders?

http://www.bulknutrition.com/?products_id=2077

I bought a Poliquin podcast at the weekend(mass gain one), he mentions lowering cortisol serveral times, 2 tips being taking 1g of mg in split doses after 4pm and stretching before bed.

PS is meant to good for improving memory too of course.
They're about 6 mg/cent compared to the above 9-10 mg/cent. Meh.

50g total of PS (since you get 100g with 50% split) for the $89.

The above deal is 5 bottles * 60 pills * 300mg per pill = 90g total of PS for the $100 + possibly coupon discount. I think "EBATES" is the 10% off one.

Grissim Connery
04-06-2010, 11:26 AM
Sports Med. 2006;36(8):657-69.
Effects of phosphatidylserine supplementation on exercising humans.

Kingsley M.

Department of Sports Science, University of Wales Swansea, Singleton Park, Swansea, UK. M.I.C.Kingsley@Swansea.ac.uk

Phosphatidylserine (PtdSer) is a ubiquitous phospholipid species that is normally located within the inner leaflet of the cell membrane. PtdSer has been implicated in a myriad of membrane-related functions. As a cofactor for a variety of enzymes, PtdSer is thought to be important in cell excitability and communication. PtdSer has also been shown to regulate a variety of neuroendocrine responses that include the release of acetylcholine, dopamine and noradrenaline. Additionally, PtdSer has been extensively demonstrated to influence tissue responses to inflammation. Finally, PtdSer has the potential to act as an effective antioxidant, especially in response to iron-mediated oxidation. The majority of the available research that has investigated the effects of PtdSer supplementation on humans has concentrated on memory and cognitive function; patients experiencing some degree of cognitive decline have traditionally been the main focus of investigation. Although investigators have administered PtdSer through intravenous and oral routes, oral supplementation has wider appeal. Indeed, PtdSer is commercially available as an oral supplement intended to improve cognitive function, with recommended doses usually ranging from 100 to 500 mg/day. The main sources that have been used to derive PtdSer for supplements are bovine-cortex (BC-PtdSer) and soy (S-PtdSer); however, due to the possibility of transferring infection through the consumption of prion contaminated brain, S-PtdSer is the preferred supplement for use in humans. Although the pharmacokinetics of PtdSer have not been fully elucidated, it is likely that oral supplementation leads to small but quantifiable increases in the PtdSer content within the cell membrane.A small number of peer-reviewed full articles exist that investigate the effects of PtdSer supplementation in the exercising human. Early research indicated that oral supplementation with BC-PtdSer 800 mg/day moderated exercise-induced changes to the hypothalamo-pituitary-adrenal axis in untrained participants. Subsequently, this finding was extended to suggest that S-PtdSer 800 mg/day reduced the cortisol response to overtraining during weight training while improving feeling of well-being and decreasing perceived muscle soreness. However, equivocal findings from our laboratory might suggest that the dose required to undertake this neuroendocrine action may vary between participants.Interestingly, recent findings demonstrating that short-term supplementation with S-PtdSer 750 mg/day improved exercise capacity during high-intensity cycling and tended to increase performance during intermittent running might suggest an innovative application for this supplement. With the findings from the existing body of literature in mind, this article focuses on the potential effects of PtdSer supplementation in humans during and following exercise.



If you want the full article but can't access it, just PM me.

Steven Low
04-06-2010, 04:42 PM
Yeah, I have a bunch of studies I've skimmed that look promising.

Greg Davis
04-07-2010, 04:12 AM
I'm going to give this NSI product (http://www.vitacost.com/NSI-Phosphatidylserine-Complex) a try.

Actually I'll order the (120 x version) which are a bit more just because they are ready to ship.

I think these are just as cheap as what you found.. and I know vitacost has no problems with shipping to Canada.

Steven Low
04-07-2010, 06:19 AM
I'm going to give this NSI product (http://www.vitacost.com/NSI-Phosphatidylserine-Complex) a try.

Actually I'll order the (120 x version) which are a bit more just because they are ready to ship.

I think these are just as cheap as what you found.. and I know vitacost has no problems with shipping to Canada.
200mg * 300 pills / 7977 = 7.52 mg/cents

Not bad but still not close to the 9-10mg/cents. Reasonable though.

I wouldn't get anything less than 7.5 mg/cents.

Jonathan Silverman
04-10-2010, 02:09 PM
wiki says it's good for ADD too.

John Alston
04-15-2010, 08:42 AM
Searching for Phosphatidylserine shows lecithin as a source but as a soy object that's bad I assume (but cheap!)
I remember reading a MILO article not long ago where someone was promoting lecithin as a supplement...
This article (http://www.westonaprice.org/Soy-Lecithin-From-Sludge-to-Profit.html)ends with this nice summation:

When applied to fruits that are nearly ripe – going into puberty, so to speak -- LPE promotes ripening. When applied to picked fruit or cut flowers that are already ripe or blooming, however, it will "reduce senescence by inhibiting some of the enzymes involved in membrane breakdown." This can dramatically extend shelf life.38 Whether the substance could also keep human bodies fresh for funeral home viewings has not yet been investigated.

Steve Shafley
04-16-2010, 07:13 PM
I found out, anecdotally, that lecithin increases ejaculate volume, way back when I was younger and had no idea about the tricks porn stars use.

Garrett Smith
04-16-2010, 08:36 PM
I found out, anecdotally, that lecithin increases ejaculate volume, way back when I was younger and had no idea about the tricks porn stars use.
Thanks for doing that research, Shafman.

Neill Smith
04-17-2010, 01:19 AM
This looks like a promising cocktail, no? http://www.amazon.com/Nutri-Supreme-Research-Omega-3-Phosphatidylserine-Vitamin/dp/B0021XXVXC

John Alston
06-10-2010, 08:42 AM
Any updates on this stuff/idea, SLOW? Egg is also seen as a source. I uesed to eat a ton of eggs...

Garrett Smith
06-10-2010, 11:20 AM
I recently learned that the favorite studies of PS proponents were mainly done with multi-GRAM doses, and were given IV (not oral). This changes the game completely.

I am currently waiting on a shipment of some transdermal PS that is given in gram doses. I will report back.

Steven Low
06-12-2010, 10:19 AM
Any updates on this stuff/idea, SLOW? Egg is also seen as a source. I uesed to eat a ton of eggs...
It is for sure good stuff if especially if normal homeostatic mechanisms are getting disrupted via overreaching/overtraining, over-stressing, lack of sleep, etc.

Basically, reduction in cortisol leads to a better quality of sleep, especially as you get older and cortisol naturally rises while growth hormone production drops off.

The quality of supplement I have compared to the other supplement I had earlier is noticably less though. I think it may be because it's couple with the GMO soybean oil.

If you're going to try it I think it would be better off getting it in powdered form or in a different oil mix.. preferably one that doesn't contain a lot of omega 6 fatty acids.

Kevin Burns
09-19-2010, 10:01 PM
resurrection...

What does everyone think of phosphatidylserine ?

I just discovered this and I could swear it helps my sleep. Been out sick but I'm going back to the gym now with a bit more knowledge about cortisol issues and how this stuff helps.

Interested in anyone's experiences.

Steven Low
09-20-2010, 02:32 PM
resurrection...

What does everyone think of phosphatidylserine ?

I just discovered this and I could swear it helps my sleep. Been out sick but I'm going back to the gym now with a bit more knowledge about cortisol issues and how this stuff helps.

Interested in anyone's experiences.
Definitely helps with sleep.

As you age your GH secretions naturally decrease, and your cortisol naturally increases. PS promotes reduction in cortisol = deeper sleep and should help output more GH as a result from SWS.

That's not confirmed... but all I know is it is an anti-cortisol. So you're getting that benefit at least

Garrett Smith
09-20-2010, 03:43 PM
You are probably right that it is helping with your sleep, that is one of the main issues that I use it for.

Everything else it helps with, in regards to lowering cortisol, is rather slow and steady over time, which makes it hard to really notice major effects.

Yael Grauer
09-20-2010, 09:46 PM
What's a good brand to try out? Would it help with cortisol as much as, say, mg + zinc + vit c?

Garrett Smith
09-21-2010, 06:36 AM
What's a good brand to try out? Would it help with cortisol as much as, say, mg + zinc + vit c?
Seriphos from Integrative Therapeutics is one I use when people can't/won't use the cream. It should help a lot more than the three things together you mentioned.

Steven Low
09-21-2010, 07:05 AM
What's a good brand to try out? Would it help with cortisol as much as, say, mg + zinc + vit c?
http://www.iherb.com/Life-Enhancement-Phosphatidyl-Serine-90-Capsules/10248?at=0

That's the one I use. If you've never used iherb (which I'm sure you have though) you can use people's discount code for $5 off first order. Mine is "LOW052"

I've never heard of the cream though Garrett... you have a link to that?

Yael Grauer
09-21-2010, 09:32 AM
Cool. My man has a stressful job which has sometimes affected his sleep (we think) so will check it out. So fat been trying zinc/mg in the form of min. ascorbates with limited effect.

Garrett Smith
09-21-2010, 09:46 AM
This is the stuff I use, AdrenaCalm by Apex Energetics. It likely won't be available over the internet for much longer, the company is cracking down.
http://www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com/adrena-calm-k16-p-managing-stress.html

I've been finding that dealing with imbalances in GABA really helps many people in a faster manner.

Kevin Burns
09-21-2010, 11:59 AM
I've been finding that dealing with imbalances in GABA really helps many people in a faster manner.

Please elaborate !!! Thanks

Garrett Smith
09-21-2010, 05:10 PM
Stress overactivates the sympathetic nervous system. GABA, being an inhibitory neurotransmitter, can help shift the balance back towards parasympathetic. Taking GABA directly only helps for so long. Working on the GABA system helps to actually change it.

Steven Low
09-21-2010, 05:54 PM
Garrett,

Do you have any preference with GABA derivatives?

I have a regular bottle of GABA, but it didn't seem to really do anything for me. I've heard some derivatives are better than others at being absorbed though. Know of the specific ones?

Garrett Smith
09-21-2010, 09:29 PM
Regular GABA cannot penetrate a patent blood-brain barrier, so if regular GABA works for someone, it implies "leaky brain".

phGABA (PharmaGABA) can penetrate the BBB, however, as Chad and I have discussed off-line, the body seems to adapt to it pretty quickly.

I use this product (http://gfchiro.com/gabatone.html) to help raise GABA levels. I like it quite a bit for myself, patients have liked the results too.

Yael Grauer
09-21-2010, 10:44 PM
I've taken GABA and, although it did help with sleep, I found it mildly addictive.

Steven Low
09-22-2010, 05:57 AM
Regular GABA cannot penetrate a patent blood-brain barrier, so if regular GABA works for someone, it implies "leaky brain".

phGABA (PharmaGABA) can penetrate the BBB, however, as Chad and I have discussed off-line, the body seems to adapt to it pretty quickly.

I use this product (http://gfchiro.com/gabatone.html) to help raise GABA levels. I like it quite a bit for myself, patients have liked the results too.

Yeah, that's what I thought in the GABA research reading I did. Regular GABA doesn't penetrate but I guess Ph does. I might try that.

Yael Grauer
09-22-2010, 11:13 AM
Interesting, I read that liquid or sublingual does penetrate. What is leaky brain? LOL.

Garrett Smith
09-22-2010, 11:37 AM
Interesting, I read that liquid or sublingual does penetrate. What is leaky brain? LOL.
http://www.articlealley.com/article_1043325_17.html

Basically a BBB that is allowing things to penetrate that shouldn't be...the neurological equivalent of leaky gut...although the two can go hand-in-hand.

Yael Grauer
09-22-2010, 07:34 PM
Yeah, that's a Swiss cheesy argument.

Jarod Barker
09-24-2010, 05:24 PM
Hey Dr. G, I know this thread moved on to GABA, but I've been trying a few different phosphatidylserine products to try to get the cheapest per dose, and I've noticed that powder products do nothing for me. But anything with the gelcaps seems to work. Especially anything with "Neuro PS" in it. I don't know if this is just an absorption thing or if it's something to do with digestion, but I thought it was something worth noting. With the capsules with powder in them, I can take literally grams of PS and feel nothing.

Garrett Smith
12-20-2010, 05:15 AM
The original (and impressively positive) studies on PS were done on a PS+DHA complex obtained from cow brains. Since cow brains aren't exactly a desirable source of anything these days, and there have been mixed results with soy-derived PS by itself, I had an idea.

Last night, I put some EndoAmp Max (PS complex + alpha-GPC) in my mouth along with some high-DHA fish oil and emulsified D3 drops, and swished them around together until I felt they were really well mixed. I used the emulsified D3 in the hopes that the emulsification would help to mix everything together even better.

I really felt like the effects (making me very sleepy) hit me much harder and faster. Who knows, could be placebo.

Russell Crosswy
01-28-2011, 01:08 PM
Is there a good book or source of info I can learn more about the GABA pathway?

Found this link (http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/addiction/reward/pathways.html) which has a helpful illustration.

Darryl Shaw
01-29-2011, 04:56 AM
Phospholipids and sports performance.

Abstract.

Phospholipids are essential components of all biological membranes. Phosphatidylcholine (PC) and Phosphatidylserine (PS) are Phosphatidyl-phospholipids that are required for normal cellular structure and function. The participation in physical activity often challenges a variety of physiological systems; consequently, the ability to maintain normal cellular function during activity can determine sporting performance. The participation in prolonged intense exercise has been shown to reduce circulatory choline concentrations in some individuals. As choline is a pre-cursor to the neurotransmitter Acetylcholine, this finding has encouraged researchers to investigate the hypothesis that supplementation with PC (or choline salts) could enhance sporting performance. Although the available data that evaluates the effects of PC supplementation on performance are equivocal, acute oral supplementation with PC (~0.2 g PC per kg body mass) has been demonstrated to improve performance in a variety of sporting activities where exercise has depleted circulatory choline concentrations. Short term oral supplementation with soy-derived PS (S-PS) has been reported to attenuate circulating cortisol concentrations, improve perceived well-being, and reduce perceived muscle soreness after exercise. More recently, short term oral supplementation (750 mg per day of S-PS for 10 days) has been demonstrated to improve exercise capacity during high intensity cycling and tended to increase performance during intermittent running. Although more research is warranted to determine minimum dietary Phospholipid requirements for optimal sporting performance, these findings suggest that some participants might benefit from dietary interventions that increase the intakes of PC and PS.

http://www.jissn.com/content/4/1/5

Russell Crosswy
01-29-2011, 02:21 PM
Just read that paper, very interesting.

Supplementation helped with perceived soreness, performance in some aspects, and mental well-being.

Steven Low
01-29-2011, 06:58 PM
Is there a good book or source of info I can learn more about the GABA pathway?

Found this link (http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/addiction/reward/pathways.html) which has a helpful illustration.
For any pathway you can learn about it by search

X synthesis or X biosynthesis if you wanted to know the specific transformation of chemicals. Google images

If you wanted to learn about a particular pathway I would just google search it regularly... X pathway or check out wiki articles on specific chemicals.

Donald Lee
02-15-2012, 03:12 PM
I just got some PS and some other stuff, but I'm wondering what are some recommended/effective dosages for PS.