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View Full Version : Mid-Hang Snatch with PVC


Ben Moskowitz
07-13-2009, 07:59 PM
Here's the video. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdAqSE-TaWE)

Well, it's not quite PVC, but it's close. I've been working through the drills for the snatch in Olympic Weightlifting as part of my warm-up. Since the mid-hang snatch is at the end of the chapter and the next step is add weight, I thought now would be a good time to check in with some internet coaching.

Blair Lowe
07-13-2009, 11:45 PM
My 2 cents. I did the slow mo watching via the trick I learned from Steven Low of pushing the play/pause button quickly.

When you start pulling after the shoulder shrug with the elbows, you havent' fully opened your hips. On one of them I still saw your knees bent. I'd like to see you push through the forefoot really opening that hip. Maybe it was just the clothes but maybe someone else will see this.

When using the pvc or light weight ( bar only ), I like to work the motions in slow motion really focusing on extension of the hips, knees and foot ( something Steve said I should also try ). Mainly, I do this because I find it's a weak point in my lifting or was. Probably still is but probably way better than last year.

Ben Moskowitz
07-17-2009, 07:21 PM
When you start pulling after the shoulder shrug with the elbows, you havent' fully opened your hips. On one of them I still saw your knees bent. I'd like to see you push through the forefoot really opening that hip. Maybe it was just the clothes but maybe someone else will see this.

When using the pvc or light weight ( bar only ), I like to work the motions in slow motion really focusing on extension of the hips, knees and foot ( something Steve said I should also try ). Mainly, I do this because I find it's a weak point in my lifting or was. Probably still is but probably way better than last year.

Thanks for the catch, that's huge. I was watching video of my hang power cleans today from the CF.com WOD, and I was definitely "short-rooming" the clean. And it's the least complex thing you can do, ahh! Besides going through positions slowly, are there any fixes for incomplete hip extensions?

Blair Lowe
07-17-2009, 07:37 PM
I wish I knew. Hopefully more knowledgeable people than me will comment. Patience, maybe.

Ben Moskowitz
08-15-2009, 04:35 PM
OK, here's round 2. I've been working through the progressions in the book, with particular emphasis on the mid-hang snatch pull. I like to get into the mid-hang, jump as high as I can, reset, and then do the pull while trying to maintain the jumping sensation. Sort of a cool complex, maybe.

In any case, here's the video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6RwPmm9BkA)

I wish I could figure out how to put music into the vid with Windows Movie Maker so it's more exciting, but oh well.

Blair Lowe
08-15-2009, 09:15 PM
I think it looks better. Time will tell when you do it with a real bar empty or loaded.

Ben Moskowitz
08-15-2009, 10:24 PM
Cool. I'll start practicing with a bar or a training bar and report back later.

Martin Bonn
08-16-2009, 04:06 AM
hey ben,

(i m quite new to all this so you might want to take anything i say with a grain of salt!)
just a couple of things i noticed, and they might only occur because you are training with a light bar.
1.) arms aren t 100% straight...just a minor thing and is probably gonna sort itself with some weight

2.) right, so this can be contested depending on how you've been taught and what your expericence is etc: it looks to me like all the acceleration on the bar comes from you leaning back (i.e. all spinal erectors and some hams), you legs are quite straight when you initiate the second pull, so there is little quad involvement. in other words it look like there isn't much double knee bend.
when i figure out how to capture a still image and paste it in here i ll show you what i mean (look on page 49 of greg's book at the bottom right...that s the position you want to get to before you jump).

having said that, you have nice speed throught he middle and it looks a lot better than when i first started!

Blair Lowe
08-17-2009, 01:08 AM
I don't know what it means, but you are hopping backwards as you are snatching.

I did see the arms but maybe I thought that was how your arms were naturally.

Allen Yeh
08-17-2009, 05:50 AM
When you bring the bar to the mid hang position, try to really push your hips back and a tip from Leo S. when I was down at his affiliate was to go from high hang to mid-hang quickly, rather than going from high hang to mid-hang slowly. So you should start at high hang, push your hips back to mid-hang and quickly reverse to a snatch/power snatch.

I'd recommend progressing to a bar and refilm, PVC is ok but it's easy to mask errors, using a bar it will give a little bit more feedback and let your body know what it feels like. Have you been using the Burgerne warmup? If not I'd do that every time.

Ben Moskowitz
08-17-2009, 08:55 PM
Thanks for the tip. I've been warming up with either skill transfer exercises or just earlier PVC progressions shown in the book, but yeah, can't go wrong with the Burgener WU.

Ben Moskowitz
09-09-2009, 09:54 PM
OK, here's a video with the bar (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49Mk5h6lhA0). It's about a week old.

Yuen Sohn
09-11-2009, 09:01 AM
Ben,
Looking good.

It's verrrry subtle, but I get the sense you're engaging the arms just a tiny bit early (before hips fully extend). It's very tough to tell at this weight though. I'd like to see you move up in weight (as per your planned progression) to see if that better reveals any technical issues.

Ben Moskowitz
09-15-2009, 10:51 PM
Looking back, I noticed some of that when I stepped through on the Quicktime files on my computer. I left the book up at school, but I think the next step was to take it to the floor, so I've been practicing the 1st pull positions. It feels really weird going from below the knee to the hang because it always feels like I have to pull the bar into my thighs for the last few inches rather than just using the legs.

video:
1st Pull Positioning (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FUYudW8AQU)

I could throw in some weighted hang pwr snatches later this week too.

Michael McKenna
09-16-2009, 05:30 AM
Ben, I think your first video was better than your recent ones. After watching the video you just posted, I wondered why I hadn't commented. But looking back on the first video, I saw some better positions, and figured you were on the right track. But now, not so much.

I would focus on two things: 1. Get your shoulders over the bar and 2. hip extension. In your start, in your pulls, in all of them except on that first video, your shoulders are behind the bar when you start your explosion. Keep your hips higher and shoulders over the bar longer. When you see good lifters lift, they do this. When you see good lifters screw up their big lifts, they do what you're doing now.

Hip extension is the key to making a lift. Lost in the discussion of jumping or not, etc. is this: Jumping gets the athlete to focus on explosive and powerful extension of the body. You need a violent and explosive extension to lift well. That violent and explosive extension does not come from the feet, it comes from the hips and the knees, moving together, and flattening the plane of the body out. If you want to think "jump", go ahead. But instead of lifting your feet off the ground as you would in a vertical leap, keep them flat. Right when you're at the point of the jump where you're going to leave the ground, DRIVE your feet flat into the ground. This movement will start teaching you the violent and explosive hip extension you need.

Do it slowly 2-3 times with the empty bar or a broomstick/ pvc. Then do it faster. Olympic Lifting isn't slow. Don't train your movements slowly.

I may have missed something here on the forum, but if you're in St. Louis, why can't you go to the Kirkwood Weightlifting Club for some instruction?


http://web.mac.com/kirkwood.wl/Kirkwood_Weightlifting_Club/Home.html

Ben Moskowitz
09-24-2009, 11:42 AM
Thanks for the analysis Michael. I have always been thinking about jump rather than driving my feet flat through the ground. I think this different cue will help curtail "short-rooming" my hip extension.

When I got home, I chose to work out in the neighborhood gym so I could coach my sister a little bit. At the time of your suggestion, I got some pain in my shoulder joints and knee, so I decided not to head to an Oly gym. Since then, I've been icing, resting, and working on trigger points. I look forward to working my technique from the ground up (again).