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Frank Needham
07-27-2009, 12:35 PM
For those of you that are familiar with SS or similarly simple lifting programs I'd like to discuss what effect throwing a metcon in between work days would have.

Given that SS is a novice, or advanced novice program, would it be detrimental to the hoped for strength gains to do this on in between days and, if so, to what degree?

If SS to be soley used for strength gains, does that mean that you would somehow nullify the sought after gains by trying to keep up some metcon?

I'm imagining that the answer would be "it depends", but, "it depends" on what specifically? For example, could short heavy metcons be used on alternate days without detriment, or?

Ben Smith
07-27-2009, 02:05 PM
I'd recommend doing the metcon on the same day as your heavy workout - my preference was Friday, as I had a two-day break before my next workout. This way you don't compromise the sacred sloth of your rest days.

Steven Low
07-27-2009, 03:20 PM
What Ben said.

Optimally, you don't want to do a metabolic workout with SS... but if you really need to get your conditioning level up then do it after the workout of the day before you're going to take the 2 day rest.

Frank Needham
07-27-2009, 08:01 PM
So, one day week, on the day before the two day break. What type and duration would be acceptable so as to not interfere with the SS program? Sprints, swings, dragging? Less than 10 minutes? Maybe it would be best to gauge the intensity and duration by from one's energy and fatigue levels at the end of the week.

Allen Yeh
07-27-2009, 08:21 PM
At the end of the 5/3/1 book by Wendler, he throws a bit in there about conditioning after the sessions. Basically he recommended either hill sprints or Prowler pushes/sprints after each session.

Craig Brown
07-28-2009, 08:32 AM
I'd go short & heavy...two bell swings, or as Allen (or should I credit Wendler?) said hill sprints, sled drags, etc. A 'nice' finish is just five or ten jumping squats/plyo push ups/chins for 3-5 minutes. Keep it simple, and don't let it eat into your recovery.

Ben Smith
07-28-2009, 10:41 AM
I only started adding metcon back in because I got sick of sucking during my occasional pickup basketball games. My metcons were always sprint/jump based for that reason.

Ex: 5 rounds for time of:
- 200m sprint
- 10 36" box jumps

Burpees and medicine ball throws are also nice, especially in combination (go down to the bottom of a burpee, then instead of jumping and clapping grab a 20+ pound med ball and throw it backwards over your head. This requires some space. 50 reps for time.)

Basically, I chose something where I never slowed down because of muscle fatigue, instead picking movements that were"easy" enough for my strength level. If I had to stop, it was just to breathe. A little different from the recommendation above of short and heavy, but goals differ.

Frank Needham
07-28-2009, 12:05 PM
I think what I'm looking for would be to A: keep up some conditioning and B: keep my weight down (I know, SS isn't supposed to be for that purpose) while going through this SS cycle. I'll try some different things and report back on what seems to work for me. Thanks to everyone for the input.

Ben Smith
07-28-2009, 03:53 PM
Everyone's got different goals. The only time someone gets criticized for not packing on weight during SS is if they whine about not getting maximum results.

Steven Low
07-28-2009, 04:03 PM
Everyone's got different goals. The only time someone gets criticized for not packing on weight during SS is if they whine about not getting maximum results.
Well, rx'd that is.

If the weight gain is shoddy
If the strength gains are shoddy
If you stall out fast
etc.

If you changed any of the program like you could program novice strength better than Rip then you will get berated, haha.

If you understand that changing it will change your gains (muscle and strenth usually for the worse at the expense of gains in other attribute(s)) then sure go for it. :)

Frank Needham
07-28-2009, 05:15 PM
"whining about results"....yeah, that's the point in those type of discussions. You don't really get to call the program "xxxx" if you modify it somehow and expect to get the advertised result. I'm not expecting to become a beast power lifter, just to stay in condition for life's vagaries.

Gant Grimes
07-29-2009, 12:52 PM
Frank, any metcon you do will cut into your potential gains on SS. It might mean you reach the intermediate phase at lower weights. It might also take you another couple of months for your linear progression to top out. So it's not necessarily bad.

Generally, the best way to get good at X is to do X, eat for X, and recover for X. When you add Y, there are problems. (You see what I did there, ladies?). Some problems you can live with; some you can't.

If you want to add metcon, add a light one on Friday. Then maybe add one on Wednesday after a month. At this point your SS workouts should be difficult, so you'll have to add even more.

Frank Needham
07-29-2009, 06:43 PM
I guess I'll have to identify what I'm doing as SSM for Modified or SSHM - Heavily Modified. I do want to get a lot stronger but at this point in life, putting on a lot of weight to do it just doesn't seem appealing. Too bad getting stronger is generally equated with getting bigger.

Steven Low
07-29-2009, 11:08 PM
Eh?

If you don't want the hypertrophy don't eat for it.

Frank Needham
07-30-2009, 09:38 AM
Eh?

If you don't want the hypertrophy don't eat for it.

If you've never been over a buck-fifty in your life ;P then not eating is probably much easier than for someone approaching 190 lbs. That may be a subjective observation though. Me loves to eat, anything. So while doing a strength based program I tend to get fatter/bigger. For me not to gain while doing this will be a real accomplishment. You skinny sobs make me envious at times.

Gant Grimes
07-30-2009, 02:20 PM
I guess I'll have to identify what I'm doing as SSM for Modified or SSHM - Heavily Modified. I do want to get a lot stronger but at this point in life, putting on a lot of weight to do it just doesn't seem appealing. Too bad getting stronger is generally equated with getting bigger.

I'm a weight class athlete that has used (and is currently using) a linear progression program. Like Steven said, if you don't want the extra mass, don't eat for it.