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Mike Romano
08-18-2009, 12:54 PM
Hey Guys

Just got back my blood work. Doc says everything is great, except I appear to have abnormal liver function (AST/APT or whatever are 55/49, forget which is which). Any thoughts? Never drink alcohol, never use NSAIDS, anti-inflammatories, etc.. I eat Paleo with about 13-15g (EPA+DHA) fish oil per day, two 18 hour fasts per week. Have 1 cup caffeinated coffee every morning, take ZMA (NOW) before bedtime. Will share the rest of the results once I actually see the report...any other questions just lemme know. I've been reading about adrenal insufficiency....?

Steven Low
08-18-2009, 04:54 PM
If you worked out soon before your tests the AST/ALT levels and such can be elevated b/c of the muscle damage. Particularly because of hard exercise which most of us here do

If that's not the case then tonestly if you feel great, and everything is great... he may be trying to treat the numbers instead of the patient.

Tony Ferous
08-19-2009, 07:00 AM
I dont know much about the enzymes but thats sure alot of fish oil. Why so much?

Mike ODonnell
08-20-2009, 07:45 AM
Just did a whole thing on fatty liver issues....but it pertains also to all stressors that could be effecting the liver (such as things in the environment around you):
http://www.fitnessspotlight.com/2009/08/18/speed-up-your-metabolism-fatty-liver-disease/

Of course Steven is right about working out also, hence why it may be better to go back and retest another day as well....and you may see a different result. Dunno...not a Dr.

Mike Romano
08-22-2009, 08:29 AM
wow! a lot of replies, thanks guys...

I have a cup of coffee every morning with breakfast, so probably not that. Didn't excercise that day, so probably not that. And Mike, any other thoughts on milk thistle? It's mad expensive, so if its snake oil.......

Fish oil is high as per robb wolf's recommendations, recovery is a lot better with it that high (particularly with college-quality meat). Actually dialing it down to 5g/day of carlsons because of money issues, however.

Herniated disc pain? Could this provoke it? I had high levels all the way back in January as well, and I was more stressed then, so this doesn't really make too much sense.

Once again, really appreciate all of the help.

Mike ODonnell
08-23-2009, 09:27 AM
And Mike, any other thoughts on milk thistle? It's mad expensive, so if its snake oil........

I heard it from reliable sources that it helps (especially with livers destroyed by alcohol)....but then again, I'd suggest doing a little search about it....

As for cost....I used to get it in liquid form for like $5 and it lasted a few weeks....I usually just buy a bottle once a year after New Years and give my liver a helping hand after the holidays.....

Garrett Smith
08-23-2009, 01:16 PM
Milk thistle is far from snake oil.
Hepatoprotective herbal drug, silymarin from experimental pharmacology to clinical medicine. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17213517?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=2&log$=relatedreviews&logdbfrom=pubmed)
Silymarin offers good protection in various toxic models of experimental liver diseases in laboratory animals. It acts by antioxidative, anti-lipid peroxidative, antifibrotic, anti-inflammatory, membrane stabilizing, immunomodulatory and liver regenerating mechanisms. Silymarin has clinical applications in alcoholic liver diseases, liver cirrhosis, Amanita mushroom poisoning, viral hepatitis, toxic and drug induced liver diseases and in diabetic patients. Though silymarin does not have antiviral properties against hepatitis virus, it promotes protein synthesis, helps in regenerating liver tissue, controls inflammation, enhances glucuronidation and protects against glutathione depletion. Silymarin may prove to be a useful drug for hepatoprotection in hepatobiliary diseases and in hepatotoxicity due to drugs. The non traditional use of silymarin may make a breakthrough as a new approach to protect other organs in addition to liver.
Regular milk thistle is okay, but has some issues with absorption rates. I prefer SiliPhos, which is silybin bound to phosphatidylcholine (basically making it both fat- and water-soluble, many times more absorbable). Studies on SiliPhos linked to here (http://www.ultrathistle.com/siliphos_clinical_studies.html).

You mentioned stress. Well, here's what simple chronic stressors can do to mice (and their liver enzymes):
The effects of long-duration, low-temperature ground transportation on physiological and biochemical indicators of stress in mice. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18292774?ordinalpos=8&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum)
Transportation affected the following parameters in both strains of mice: (i) serum corticosterone concentrations, (ii) expression of the chaperone proteins Hsp70 and Grp78 in various tissues and (iii) concentrations of serological enzymes that are associated with liver disease.

Mike Romano
08-26-2009, 02:31 PM
yeah, think stress might be it. All my other work was exceptional though: 78 HDL, 46 Triglycerides, CRP of .3 ....not too worried