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View Full Version : Problem with my pulls and a recommendation I need help understanding


Arden Cogar Jr.
08-20-2009, 08:50 AM
Hello All,
I'm having a doozy of a time finishing my pulls in both my cleans and snatches. I'm cutting them short, but I'm recognizing the problem and trying to correct as I go. A great coach recommended that I try some "fishing pole pulls." That's a new one on me. Anyone ever heard of them or could enlighten me on the drill? I want to understand and get the technical issues as down as I can. For an old fart.

All the best, Arden

Arden Cogar Jr.
08-20-2009, 09:43 AM
here's the video that led to the comment:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WwUQwybwvo

I want to understand it completely as I want to master these lifts as well as my old butt can.

Thanks in advance for any assitanced offered.

All the best,
Arden

Yuen Sohn
08-20-2009, 12:13 PM
Hi Arden,
Any more detail you can offer regarding the fishing pole pulls? I'm just wondering if they might go by a different name than what people around these parts call them.

Edit: Oh wait, nevermind...I just saw the comment you were referring to.

Yuen Sohn
08-20-2009, 02:05 PM
*Caution, I'm pulling this out from the depths of my ass...
Perhaps it is a high pull from the hang position, with an emphasis on complete extension at the finish. I'd be curious to see what Bull has to say.

In looking at your video, I think your extension (esp. at the hip) could definitely be faster. I imagine those loads must feel like baby weights for you, but I'd be interested to see just how fast you can move them. As one coach recently pointed out to me, "Stop being TFN (Too F-cking Nice)!"

Arden Cogar Jr.
08-20-2009, 08:01 PM
*Caution, I'm pulling this out from the depths of my ass...
Perhaps it is a high pull from the hang position, with an emphasis on complete extension at the finish. I'd be curious to see what Bull has to say.

In looking at your video, I think your extension (esp. at the hip) could definitely be faster. I imagine those loads must feel like baby weights for you, but I'd be interested to see just how fast you can move them. As one coach recently pointed out to me, "Stop being TFN (Too F-cking Nice)!"

Yuen, Good stuff, even if it is from the depths of your ass. I'll definitely let you know what Bull says. My guess is exploding with the weight and getting full extension. Make it quick and fast. I need it.

All the best,
Arden

Allen Yeh
08-21-2009, 03:44 AM
take an old fishing pole and slide it through one of the holes in your squat rack/cage facing outside. Put it at a height just at the collarbone, then do your high pulls and pull it high enough (using your big shrug and high elbows) to make the end of the bar impact the end of the fishing pole. If you see the pole move, you've finished your pull.

I just saw this comment on your video.

Michael McKenna
08-21-2009, 07:29 AM
Jamie,

Joe Delago used to do those pulls. I think they're effective, but not necessarily in hip extension. I'll review this thread and the vids again and comment later.

The easiest way to do them is to take a broomstick and put it in your squat racks/ power racks at mid-chest height. Then, turn sideways on the platform and do your pulls.

Okay, read the thread again and looked at the videos again. Stuff that helps me (I'm working on getting the technique back now, too, and hip extension is my current issue). When you do pulls, shrug HARD and drive your heels into the ground. As you do this, you'll have to pop your hips straight but not into the bar to get the pull right.

Go 70-80% heavy from high blocks (not hang snatches). You'll need the extension to make the lifts (see my workout on Facebook from Weds morning).

My self-cues for better snatching involve me "pulling the bar into my lap". I actively think of this as I extend. This cue helps me to do two things: 1. WAIT to extend until the last possible moment, and TWO: STAND TALL with the pull.

Brian DeGennaro
08-21-2009, 07:43 AM
I like the idea but I just have issues with high pulls in general, simply because you will tend to pull with the arms to raise the weight up instead of guiding it. That and I feel it teaches you to hang out at the top and allow the weight to rise as opposed to reversing directions immediately after extending. The bar always goes up after completing a pull and pulling under.

Anyways, that said, my advice would be this:

- high hang lifts, just like Yoon said.

- Sn/Cln Pullx2-3 + Sn/Cln - here you want to focus on standing up nice and tall on each pull, but immediately relaxing as soon as you extend. A good idea is to perform the first one slow, the second faster, and third the fastest. Take your time in this drill, do not rush each movement.

- Cue yourself to "hit the bell" as I say it. When you complete the pull you should feel this "whip" at the top of it, so a simple cue I use is imagine you are the lead weight in the high striker carnival game, so imagine there is a bell at head level that you need to hit in order to "win". You need to get tall with your whole body in order to hit the bell and feel this whip/"hit the bell". Someone also told me that when they think of the cue they think about changing directions immediately because if they did that in reality they would want to get away from the bell afterwards.

That's my $0.02 Arden.

Arden Cogar Jr.
08-21-2009, 09:04 AM
Jamie,

Joe Delago used to do those pulls. I think they're effective, but not necessarily in hip extension. I'll review this thread and the vids again and comment later.

The easiest way to do them is to take a broomstick and put it in your squat racks/ power racks at mid-chest height. Then, turn sideways on the platform and do your pulls.

Okay, read the thread again and looked at the videos again. Stuff that helps me (I'm working on getting the technique back now, too, and hip extension is my current issue). When you do pulls, shrug HARD and drive your heels into the ground. As you do this, you'll have to pop your hips straight but not into the bar to get the pull right.

Go 70-80% heavy from high blocks (not hang snatches). You'll need the extension to make the lifts (see my workout on Facebook from Weds morning).

My self-cues for better snatching involve me "pulling the bar into my lap". I actively think of this as I extend. This cue helps me to do two things: 1. WAIT to extend until the last possible moment, and TWO: STAND TALL with the pull.


Mike,
Awesome stuff. I get it.

On the snatches, think "pull the bar into my lap" then extend hard and tall without bouncing the bar when it hips my lap or crease of my hip. When the bar goes weightless, think high elbows. Then jump under it, squeeze the bar hard, spread my hands and punch my traps into the base of my skull.

On the cleans think "pull the bar to the top of my thighs" extend hard and tall without bouncing it out.

I can do this. I'll do some with 80% and make that shit go as weightless as I can. It's weird, but I can do very high hang snatches with up to about 85 to 90% of what I pull form the floor. So there's an obvious disconnect somewhere.


Thanks again for your help. Means a lot to me.
All the best,
Arden

Arden Cogar Jr.
08-21-2009, 09:10 AM
I like the idea but I just have issues with high pulls in general, simply because you will tend to pull with the arms to raise the weight up instead of guiding it. That and I feel it teaches you to hang out at the top and allow the weight to rise as opposed to reversing directions immediately after extending. The bar always goes up after completing a pull and pulling under.

Anyways, that said, my advice would be this:

- high hang lifts, just like Yoon said.

- Sn/Cln Pullx2-3 + Sn/Cln - here you want to focus on standing up nice and tall on each pull, but immediately relaxing as soon as you extend. A good idea is to perform the first one slow, the second faster, and third the fastest. Take your time in this drill, do not rush each movement.

- Cue yourself to "hit the bell" as I say it. When you complete the pull you should feel this "whip" at the top of it, so a simple cue I use is imagine you are the lead weight in the high striker carnival game, so imagine there is a bell at head level that you need to hit in order to "win". You need to get tall with your whole body in order to hit the bell and feel this whip/"hit the bell". Someone also told me that when they think of the cue they think about changing directions immediately because if they did that in reality they would want to get away from the bell afterwards.

That's my $0.02 Arden.

Brian,
The drill you mention - it sounds almost like a matrix - high hang, mid hang, then from floor? Is that right. I love this things. Absolutely love them. Gets the heart rate up like nobody's business.

I like the cue as well. I went to drive my heels, shrug like hell and bash my head on a bell that's directly above my head.

I really think I'm missing a lot of acceleration I could be putting on the bar and it's these sort of things that really help. Sometimes I hit it perfect, but it's rare at this stage. Last week I was doing a clean pull with around 185 and I must have hit it perfect, because the bar went weightles and continued upwards to nearly my sternum. It sorta shocked me when it happened. I normally only get it to my navel.
So it's going to become a learned thing.

I'm going to start doing the matrix as part of my warm ups. I believe it will groove me getting tall and working on the items address in this thread.

Thanks so much for all your efforts. I'll do my best to implement them.

All the best,
Arden

Brian DeGennaro
08-21-2009, 09:15 AM
The drill I specifically outlined is just 2-3 pulls from the ground, then a full lift from the ground. And yes, doing these drills as a warmup prior to the full lifts is key. I personally have a very difficult time trying to do skills and technique stuff one day and then just lifts the next. Might as well use skills/tech stuff as a warmup instead.

Arden Cogar Jr.
08-21-2009, 09:38 AM
The drill I specifically outlined is just 2-3 pulls from the ground, then a full lift from the ground. And yes, doing these drills as a warmup prior to the full lifts is key. I personally have a very difficult time trying to do skills and technique stuff one day and then just lifts the next. Might as well use skills/tech stuff as a warmup instead.

Gotcha. Not a matrix. But pulls from the floor. 1st up to where the bar hits the crease of hip (or upper thighs) but you don't rip it. 2nd from floor to crease (upper thigh) and you rip it with a pull. 3rd, you do the full lift?

Just want to make sure I'm getting it. I could definitely benefit from something like this. I've spent so many years doing slow pulls with a lot of weight that switching to pulling faster is a lot harder. I'm starting to deadlift close to 300 pretty darn quick, so I'm pysched about that. It's coming. Slowly but surely. Trying to re-wire at my age is not easy. Gotta start somewhere.

All the best,
Arden

Brian DeGennaro
08-21-2009, 09:43 AM
Yeah, 2 or 3 pulls and then a full lift. It's a good drill to work the positioning and feel.

Arden Cogar Jr.
08-27-2009, 06:20 AM
Yeah, 2 or 3 pulls and then a full lift. It's a good drill to work the positioning and feel.

Brian,
I wanted you to know that I did this matrix yesterday. It wasn't planned the way I did it. When I got to our YMCA, I realized I forgot my addistars. So I had to do my cleans in Vans. I had trouble shuffling my feet, so I stopped with box squat cleans and did your three rep matrix with a power clean at the end. Note, I didn't shuffle my feet. Just drove my heels, heaved, and got under it without moving my feet.

Anyway, this shit works. I did 135 like it was nothing yesterday and that is very clsoe to my personal best power clean with my sexy shoes on. I was astounded. I guess it imprints how to pull the bar and contact the thighs at the right place. I felt like I had another 10 to 15 kilos in me for a non shuffling power clean (it really looks like a muscle clean now that I think about it). And, to be frank, my power cleans suck as I don't bend my knees much. I shuffle wide and bend my knees a little to get down.

Just wanted to let you know and thanks so much for the thoughts.

All the best,
ARden

Brian DeGennaro
08-27-2009, 11:55 AM
Anytime. I wish this drill would give me a 135kg muscle clean...

Arden Cogar Jr.
08-27-2009, 01:47 PM
Anytime. I wish this drill would give me a 135kg muscle clean...


someday, I don't see it being an issue at all for you. My coach is happy in that, and this is quote mind you, "You're finally moving weights you can't curl." :D

Oh....so many wasted years of bodybuilding and power bodybuilding.

all the best,
ARden