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View Full Version : And the wheels come off the kettlebell wagon


Steve Shafley
02-02-2007, 08:53 AM
http://www.irongarmx.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=11744

The below quote is allegedly from Steve Cotter and verified as such.

Folks,

Guess I had better have evidence before saying something like that, especially in a public forum.

Yes, Pavel is a fraud, that's right a phony.

Meaning, he has made up his credentials, stolen and plagiarized to created the illusion of expertise in a subject that until very recently, no one here knew anything about, meaning there was no way to dispute his claims

He has been found out and I have decided to do a public service by educating the brainwashed masses about the accuracy of his claims.

All of this information will be out in the open soon enough.

That is all for now. Please discuss.

P.S. What does it mean when a man makes a public display of being "hot and manly"? Yeah, that's what i thought---not that's there's anything wrong with that!

Dave Van Skike
02-02-2007, 10:00 AM
http://www.irongarmx.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=11744

The below quote is allegedly from Steve Cotter and verified as such.

Wow. Not sure who's wolf crying to believe. Thsi whole deal has been carried on with teh least amount of class neccesary. What's true won't really matter in the end. Case in point. If you piss off enough people and deal sharply with your peers in any business, it comes back to bite hard.

What is is about the "self improvement" bidness that brings out the nastyness? Is it becuase what is beign sold is an illusion?, is it becuase PT's and trainers have a faulty understanding of intellectual property?

Allen Yeh
02-02-2007, 10:00 AM
whoah

Mike ODonnell
02-02-2007, 10:28 AM
Even if it is true, too late....Pavel has made his millions. Stories like that....although sad, really do more harm than good to the overall community of fitness and how it is perceived by the general public....in that respect all coaches will suffer. I use KBs...read some of Pavel's book and got some information from them.....so really I can't complain no matter what his credentials are because I learned something....wasn't a religious follower of his though so really doesn't affect my day too much.

On the other end....the general mass media is just getting on the KB bandwagon....so as far as fitness "trends" go...it's just beginning. I'm sure Crunch and Curves will have KBs soon.....

Catherine Imes
02-02-2007, 10:36 AM
I was in Latvia competing along with Cotter and told to NOT mention Pavel while there because of some of the things that Cotter is now stating.

Cotter is not crying wolf on this. I've known him for 3+ years. It was not his original intent to go public with this information. He told me as much yesterday. There is something going on with Pavel, John Ducane and Cotter that made him do this and I can tell you that it isn't because he is no longer a Senior RKC. He would have let it go....

The fact that Steve Maxwell left as well is more proof.

This divide has been brewing for a while. I've been to the RKC workshops, assisted at 2, and I compete in Kettlebell Sport. DD has shifted quite a bit from when I joined. I considered myself fairly loyal to them until recently.

As I have stated elsewhere, the consumer/athlete will benefit with from this divide. DD has some very serious competition in regards to their Kettlebells. Now with this mess, they could start seeing some serious declines in their workshop attendance.

CI

Dave Van Skike
02-02-2007, 10:54 AM
I hope you're right Catherine. I also hope this doesn't come back to bite Cotter or Maxwell either. Regardless of the facts, I've learned a good deal from all the parties involved.

A real tangible benifit would be to see KB prices come down and to get some of the marketing BS get washed off of all the factions. Maybe someday a rubber band will be....just a rubber band, a kettlebell will be a heavy ball with a handle and "squat therapy" will be a polite reference to pepto-bismol.

Catherine Imes
02-02-2007, 11:01 AM
I agree Dave..

Did you see the link to Lifeline KBs in Kettlebell/Dumbbell forum? I've checked them out at the Monkey Bar Gym in Madison. They are very nice and very affordable.

I don't like it when stuff like this happens. I'm not sure I would have handled it the way that Cotter did. While I've been kind of in the know on some things, there are things I don't know or know in their entireity; which is fine. I'll be the first to admit that I will speak on Steve's behalf because he is a friend.

CI

joe murphy
02-02-2007, 11:45 AM
"Yes, Pavel is a fraud, that's right a phony."

sorry, but its tough for me to take anyone seriously if they have worked with pavel for years and are just figuring that out ... especially if they are heavily invested in the kettlebell/ponzi scheme.

Steve Shafley
02-02-2007, 11:49 AM
Well, I guess it's just time to sit back and watch what happens. I've always had a modicum of respect for Pavel and his materials, despite the marketing and the "comrade" schtick, and Steve Cotter has always been very highly respected in this particular S&C community.

Ronnie Ashlock
02-02-2007, 12:33 PM
whoah

You took the words right outta my mouth, Allen.

Ron Nelson
02-02-2007, 02:37 PM
"The evil Russian wears Prada."
-Coach John Davies

I believe he said this in his last T-Nation interview. I thought it was quite poignant then; moreso now.

Mike ODonnell
02-03-2007, 11:21 AM
Makes you wonder how many experts there are out there that have made up credentials thanks to the wonder of easy internet marketing and publications.

Cassidy Drake
02-03-2007, 11:23 AM
Hmmm like Scott Sonnon and his secret russian pull up techniques, or "Flow" boixing lol. Sorry but that guy just eggs on the amount of copious BS that a lot of good trainers have to deal with.

Ron Nelson
02-03-2007, 01:31 PM
I remember a guy named Ben and his super secret pull up program. That thread over at CF entertained me for hours, maybe days. Now, he's ZEB at T-Nation. Still a hoot.

Oh, I'm a certified strength and salsa dancing trainer with 35 years of experience. I'm currently 6'3", 275# and 3.5% bodyfat. My best lifts are a 1200lb squat, 900lb deadlift, and a 135lb bench.

I have some work to do on the bench.

Look for my next article on squat development soon. I use cases of beer ducttaped together.

Steve Shafley
02-03-2007, 07:56 PM
Ron, it's funny that you mention this:

"The evil Russian wears Prada."
-Coach John Davies

1. Who was NOT Ben Johnson's strength coach (told to Louie Simmons)? But rather sold Charlie Francis Musashi supplements?

2. Who is completely unknown in the circles of "Professional European Soccer", despite claims of the contrary?

There are lots of other issues, which is why the whole Renegade Training thing was a flash in the pan.

Ron Nelson
02-04-2007, 08:44 AM
Thanks to the internet, all kinds of "charlatans" can be made and unmade.

Never heard that about John Davies, although I wondered why he had suddenly disappeared.

Mike ODonnell
02-04-2007, 10:08 AM
Thanks to the internet, all kinds of "charlatans" can be made and unmade.

The gig is up.....(looking for briefcase and hat..)....time to look for the door......

Steve Shafley
02-04-2007, 11:16 AM
My status as an "anti-guru" is hard to refute.

Ron Nelson
02-04-2007, 12:52 PM
Shaf will always be an "anti-guru" as long as he keeps making videos of himself working out. First big mistake of become huge on the internet: never let the public see you do the things you say you can do.

It just creates all kinds of credibility issues, like giving you some.

MOD,

You forgot your snake oil.

Mike ODonnell
02-04-2007, 12:58 PM
Sorry.....forgot about it as I had to go 1 leg squat 500lbs with the secret Irish technique that goes back 10000 years ago....Uhhh....video...Ummm....yeah....it's coming right after I finish up my certification seminar on the ways of the Irish warrior.