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View Full Version : Paleo vs. Zone


Loni Venn
12-05-2009, 05:08 PM
It looks like CFHQ has officially put out the closest thing they are going to put out as far as a statement on the overwhelming anecdotal evidence that unweighed unmeasured paleo works better than the zone diet. In the latest CFJ Dr. Sears has gone on record stating that a weighed and measured zone diet using any food source will out perform an unweighed unmeasured paleo diet... Thoughts? Comments?

Gavin Harrison
12-05-2009, 06:11 PM
I'll just post Robb Wolf's summary from the Black Box summit.

http://robbwolf.com/?paged=2

I shared some case histories and then opened the floor for questions. Russell asked “when would I introduce the Zone in my practice?” and I said I tend not to. We have produced top tier athletes without the hassle of weighing and measuring. This did not satisfy him and he probed for how I would know what ratio athletes need for their best running and would it not be better to emulate a Zone approach. I gave him 2 concrete examples of top tier athletes who WERE eating the Zone, switched to un-weighed, unmeasured Paleo (a significant shift in food quality which decreases inflammation in many ways) who IMPROVED performance significantly by dropping the Zone. I said IF an athlete ceases to make progress I will weigh and measure food to see where to go next, but if a simple, intuitive approach is working, why mess with it?

Kevin Perry
12-05-2009, 06:24 PM
Barry Sears is Irrelevant therefore the Zone is Irrelevant, so is CFHQ, So are CF Message Board Moderators.

And to make Mike happy, Guinness is Paleo.

Gavin Harrison
12-05-2009, 06:49 PM
PS - Barry Sears definitely has something to gain by supporting the zone diet, be weary of that fact...

Don Stevenson
12-06-2009, 04:17 AM
I'm wary of anyone that wants to stand between me and reasonable quantities of food.

I've tried to zone and to get enough food i'm on about 19 blocks of fat each meal. I get sick of eating nuts (they aren't cheap here either)

George Mounce
12-06-2009, 04:20 AM
Humans aren't born with a scale (though they get put on one very quickly...and we are measured...) and I have yet to have seen my son or any baby weigh and measure breast milk or any food.

Barry Sears is full of shit. There I said it.

Steven Low
12-06-2009, 05:17 AM
It looks like CFHQ has officially put out the closest thing they are going to put out as far as a statement on the overwhelming anecdotal evidence that unweighed unmeasured paleo works better than the zone diet. In the latest CFJ Dr. Sears has gone on record stating that a weighed and measured zone diet using any food source will out perform an unweighed unmeasured paleo diet... Thoughts? Comments?
Well, that blows.

Jane Michel
12-06-2009, 05:40 AM
Barry Sears' website claims that the Zone Diet has helped elite athletes such as Valentina Vezzali (fencer), Linsay Berg (volleyball), Becky Lavelle (triathlete) and Christian VandeVelde (cyclist) win medal (see http://www.zonediet.com/tabid/169/itemid/807/Competitve-Athletes.aspx).

Does anyone know whether these athletes are strict Zoners and whether they have food logs?

I know that Dean Karnazes isn't at least because he eats junk while running (see http://www.zonediet.com/tabid/130/itemid/1100/Endurance-champion-is-in-the-Zone.aspx). An ancillary matter is that I doubt that a 40/30/30 diet would make him fat adapted as claimed in the article.

Loni Venn
12-06-2009, 10:48 AM
It looks like Tony Budding is going to have his hands full spinning this one.

Mike ODonnell
12-06-2009, 02:41 PM
Sure the Zone can work to lose weight....but there are other ways as well, to not acknowledge that is rediculous.

Too bad they want to go that route cause they are taking a stand that is based on marketing a product, not giving facts.

Thanks for the Guinness is Paleo plug.....as I personally like to hunt and gather it.

Robert Johnson
12-07-2009, 04:01 AM
Bagels are now the forbidden secret to hormonal balance, you know.

You still have to WAM it, which sucks, because I am running out of graph paper.

Steve Romer
12-07-2009, 08:29 PM
Bagels are now the forbidden secret to hormonal balance, you know.

You still have to WAM it, which sucks, because I am running out of graph paper.

Yeah I do not trust anyone who sells Cinnamon Buns and Candy as nutrition guru, but CFHQ does.

Gant Grimes
12-07-2009, 10:03 PM
Yeah I do not trust anyone who sells Cinnamon Buns and Candy as nutrition guru, but CFHQ does.

There's a pretty good joke here somewhere...

Barry Sears' website claims that the Zone Diet has helped elite athletes such as Valentina Vezzali (fencer), Linsay Berg (volleyball), Becky Lavelle (triathlete) and Christian VandeVelde (cyclist) win medal (see http://www.zonediet.com/tabid/169/itemid/807/Competitve-Athletes.aspx).

Does anyone know whether these athletes are strict Zoners and whether they have food logs?

Even if they did, would that be meaningful to you? Fact of the matter is, more elite and professional athletes are getting by on Macdonald's, Hennessey, and weed than they are the Zone.

Jane Michel
12-07-2009, 10:15 PM
Yeah I do not trust anyone who sells Cinnamon Buns and Candy as nutrition guru, but CFHQ does.

Yeah I started getting interested in Zone while listening to the seminar at Endicott but lost all interest after hearing about the molecular baked goods and cinnamon buns and candy. Goes against all my instinct to eat natural.


Even if they did, would that be meaningful to you? Fact of the matter is, more elite and professional athletes are getting by on Macdonald's, Hennessey, and weed than they are the Zone.

Probably not! It's just to satisfy my curiosity about his claims.

Darryl Shaw
12-08-2009, 05:37 AM
Barry Sears is Irrelevant therefore the Zone is Irrelevant, so is CFHQ, So are CF Message Board Moderators.

+1

I think what annoys me most about this whole Sears/Zone thing is it shows that CFHQ has a complete lack of integrity and doesn't really give a shit about anything but money. I mean if they had any respect for their customers they wouldn't be asking them to pay good money, and rather a lot of it at that, for what they must know is bad advice for any aspiring athlete.

I think that what CFHQ needs to do if they want to regain the trust of the CF community is bring in a registered dietitian with a background in sports nutrition to run the nutrition certs or if that isn't possible they should at least hire someone who isn't trying to sell bagels and cinnamon buns.

Brian DeGennaro
12-08-2009, 07:59 AM
They tried that, Darryl, and then they lost him. CrossFit hasn't really be able to retain anyone they bring in.

Mike ODonnell
12-08-2009, 08:27 AM
I would love to see affiliates take a stand and cancel their dates for hosting nutritional seminars to send a clear message....if people really want to know about the Zone, I'm sure they can save a bunch of money and find it for $5 in any used bookstore.

Time for the community to realize who has the power....they do...not HQ.

Patrick Donnelly
12-08-2009, 07:32 PM
and find it for $5 in any used bookstore...
I loved the subtlety.

Donald Lee
12-08-2009, 07:35 PM
They tried that, Darryl, and then they lost him. CrossFit hasn't really be able to retain anyone they bring in.

Robb Wolf is a RD?

Steve Romer
12-08-2009, 09:58 PM
I just watched the Barry Sears Video and he said people would be better off zoning with the modern diet than eating paleo diet without zoning. He actually said zoning with Ding Dongs is better than the paleo diet without zoning.

And this guy is replacing Robb Wolf?:confused:

Mike ODonnell
12-09-2009, 07:29 AM
I just watched the Barry Sears Video and he said people would be better off zoning with the modern diet than eating paleo diet without zoning. He actually said zoning with Ding Dongs is better than the paleo diet without zoning.

And this guy is replacing Robb Wolf?:confused:

He's been selling to mainstream too long....where they will not give up their sweets....I'm sure he will find it a different story now being involved with a community that actually focuses on eating real foods.....I feel a tad sorry for how much he may get blindsided at his seminar from an audience that may know more about how to eat than he does.....

Brian DeGennaro
12-09-2009, 07:50 AM
I feel a tad sorry for how much he may get blindsided at his seminar from an audience that may know more about how to eat than he does.....

Well, then maybe he and everyone else (you know who I am talking about) will see what a huge mistake has been made (and not just RW).

Steve Romer
12-09-2009, 09:35 AM
Well, then maybe he and everyone else (you know who I am talking about) will see what a huge mistake has been made (and not just RW).

I wonder what percentage of people attending will be surprise to Barry Sears leading the nutrition cert?

I think it will be low, but I think some will be surprised because CFHQ has refused to make an official announcement.

Brian Stone
12-09-2009, 10:27 AM
I find the concept of switching from one presenter to another with substantially differing viewpoints on nutrition and calling both a "certification" laughable. Maybe this whole event will push towards CF actually having a certification curriculum.

I wonder, if one were to go to 3 different CF nutrition certs by 3 different presenters, whether the information they received would be consistent. I suspect I know the answer.

Mike ODonnell
12-09-2009, 04:34 PM
I find the concept of switching from one presenter to another with substantially differing viewpoints on nutrition and calling both a "certification" laughable. Maybe this whole event will push towards CF actually having a certification curriculum.

I wonder, if one were to go to 3 different CF nutrition certs by 3 different presenters, whether the information they received would be consistent. I suspect I know the answer.

In a legal sense....nutrition and certification should not even be in the same sentence....as only someone has a RD/MD can legally tell someone specifically what to eat (such as specific foods/ratios/calories).

The word "certification" in the fitness industry is just a "resume" term to get more trainers to invest high amounts of money on more things. Nothing new, every single fitness certification organization has those little "certs". As somewhere out there, someone is certified to use a "Bosu ball" and "Resistance Bands".

Gavin Harrison
12-09-2009, 05:05 PM
What's silly about it really is Dave Castro saying "we don't tell you what to do, we give you the information". Then have CF's official position on diet be "Zone on shit is better than unmeasured unweighed paleo". I wonder if any crossfit people will see that contradiction.

Kevin Perry
12-09-2009, 05:17 PM
What's silly about it really is Dave Castro saying "we don't tell you what to do, we give you the information". Then have CF's official position on diet be "Zone on shit is better than unmeasured unweighed paleo". I wonder if any crossfit people will see that contradiction.

Well of course it's better, only on the zone can you become an elite athlete better than any olympic athlete and take your deadlift to 750lbs using nothing other than the main page WOD and 16 blocks a day.

I dare you show any evidence that this is not so and that CF cannot make people elite.

Steve Romer
12-09-2009, 05:46 PM
What's silly about it really is Dave Castro saying "we don't tell you what to do, we give you the information". Then have CF's official position on diet be "Zone on shit is better than unmeasured unweighed paleo". I wonder if any crossfit people will see that contradiction.

I used to be a cool-aid drinker, but this firing of Robb Wolf has open my eyes and now I do not believe a word that comes out of CFHQ. I just do not trust them anymore.

Patrick Donnelly
12-10-2009, 04:32 AM
Well of course it's better, only on the zone can you become an elite athlete better than any olympic athlete and take your deadlift to 750lbs using nothing other than the main page WOD and 16 blocks a day.

I dare you show any evidence that this is not so and that CF cannot make people elite.

http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/004487.html
http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/004638.html
http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/004532.html
http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/004951.html
http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/005016.html
http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/004729.html
http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/004822.html
http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/003471.html
http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/003293.html
http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/003642.html
http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/003342.html
http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/001736.html
http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/003045.html
http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/004057.html
http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/000978.html
http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/001683.html
http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/001280.html
http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/002299.html


That enough?

James Evans
12-10-2009, 04:48 AM
In a legal sense....nutrition and certification should not even be in the same sentence....as only someone has a RD/MD can legally tell someone specifically what to eat (such as specific foods/ratios/calories).

The word "certification" in the fitness industry is just a "resume" term to get more trainers to invest high amounts of money on more things. Nothing new, every single fitness certification organization has those little "certs". As somewhere out there, someone is certified to use a "Bosu ball" and "Resistance Bands".

I'm a qualified Nutritional Adviser - I can advise or suggest what you should eat but I can't tell you to do it.

However, as a qualified PT I can tell you to do stupid shit with a cable machine while standing blindfolded on a bosu ball.

Jane Michel
12-10-2009, 06:31 AM
http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/004487.html
http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/004638.html
http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/004532.html
http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/004951.html
http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/005016.html
http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/004729.html
http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/004822.html
http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/003471.html
http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/003293.html
http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/003642.html
http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/003342.html
http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/001736.html
http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/003045.html
http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/004057.html
http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/000978.html
http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/001683.html
http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/001280.html
http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/002299.html


That enough?

Ummm I think Kevin was being sarcastic

Mike ODonnell
12-10-2009, 07:50 AM
However, as a qualified PT I can tell you to do stupid shit with a cable machine while standing blindfolded on a bosu ball.

Damn right! Cause we all know "CORE" stability and movement burn more calories than eating right anyways.....maybe I will start selling those new rocking shoes that make your abs ripped like you were in the movie 300.....

(disclaimer...everything above said with sarcasm...nothing personally against cable machines.....and I've done plenty of stupid sh@t on Bosu balls)

Kevin Perry
12-10-2009, 09:58 AM
Ummm I think Kevin was being sarcastic

I'm sure he knows that, I'm generally sarcastic about everything.

Shane Skowron
12-11-2009, 01:00 PM
What's silly about it really is Dave Castro saying "we don't tell you what to do, we give you the information". Then have CF's official position on diet be "Zone on shit is better than unmeasured unweighed paleo". I wonder if any crossfit people will see that contradiction.

War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.

My CF Journal subscription ran out recently. I'm not renewing it; I don't need to watch videos on how weighing and measuring ding dongs will bring about elite tactical fitness and reduce inflammation.

George Mounce
12-12-2009, 09:39 PM
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.

My CF Journal subscription ran out recently. I'm not renewing it; I don't need to watch videos on how weighing and measuring ding dongs will bring about elite tactical fitness and reduce inflammation.

This thread makes me want to go eat a deep fat fried ding dong for some reason. Damn you Barry Sears! You are aiding people in getting fat!