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Kelly White
12-13-2009, 11:27 AM
I have been searching for info on lower back and neck prehab.

We all know the back can be compromised when rounded while supporting loads, so does anyone train the back for this situation? I assume strongman guys have to do it and i have seen some heavy pulls with round backs.

I would assume if we train for it, injurys could be prevented.

Greg Everett
12-13-2009, 12:26 PM
round back lifting is a wise investment of time. straight-legged DLs are a good start. my advice is simply to start very conservatively - like embarrassingly light weight - and build up incrementally as you see how you respond. along with that, any low odd-object lifting/flipping will generally require a round back - stones, waterballs, some sandbags, kegs, tire flips, etc.

neck work is also a good idea in my opinion and is widely neglected. i'm a huge fan of bridging as long as hip anterior chain flexibility is good and the individual can get into a good arched position in order to get the top of the forehead to the floor without actually folding the c-spine in half. i like a nice slow pace and a pause in extension - about 2 sec concentric/eccentric or so. then unweighted or very lightly weighted flex/exten/rotation lying on a bench - tons of reps, more stamina-oriented. and band work in all directions from low to high reps.

Dave Van Skike
12-13-2009, 01:14 PM
seconded...neck work is an area i'm really lacking in but i'those m a huge beliver in round back training in general. easiest place to start are SLDL "roll ups" moving onto sand bag and stone type things.

i found starting slow and following up those sessions with hanging ab work, planks or rollouts. seems to feel good.

keep working at it and "explosive" and "round back" won't sound crazy.

Kelly White
12-13-2009, 05:51 PM
Straight leg deads are a big part of my workout now, but I do them with a flat back. Do you pull round from the start?

Jay Ashman
12-13-2009, 06:30 PM
good points, Greg. I do a lot of tire flipping and stone lifting for fun and I was looking for ways to work the rounded back training. I think that will help me a lot as well. thanks.

Brandon Oto
12-13-2009, 06:41 PM
Question.. when the rounded-back lifts like the SLDL are done, are they done with the back completely relaxed, or is muscular tension still held, merely in a rounded rather than arched position?

Dave Van Skike
12-13-2009, 07:10 PM
Question.. when the rounded-back lifts like the SLDL are done, are they done with the back completely relaxed, or is muscular tension still held, merely in a rounded rather than arched position?

i was thinking of soemthign different with the dl, which is basically a "roll up" using weight...pavel writes about this soemwhere, maybe even kono had a thing.

on real heavy round back, you're holding your low back in as tight and arch as you can while letting your upper back hunch down..the whole thing stays tight but you can essentially straighten up with the weight form a tensed felxion to full extension. bad explanation.

thing tight tight tight..bottom postion is question mark,top position is exclamation mark. konstatinov dl, or a stone load is best example.

skrong....here you go. round back machine , zach nims.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRkSRP3TTeg

Brandon Oto
12-13-2009, 07:21 PM
But are we talking upper back or lower now? To me "rounded back" lifting is along the lines of intentionally rounding the lumbar on a deadlift. When you mention Konstantinov or even, possibly, stone lifting, I tend to think instead about a flat lower back and rounded UPPER back (think Blackflag pulling at PB), which seems like a different issue and somewhat less controversial.

Dave Van Skike
12-13-2009, 07:49 PM
But are we talking upper back or lower now? To me "rounded back" lifting is along the lines of intentionally rounding the lumbar on a deadlift. When you mention Konstantinov or even, possibly, stone lifting, I tend to think instead about a flat lower back and rounded UPPER back (think Blackflag pulling at PB), which seems like a different issue and somewhat less controversial.

you mean reversing the lordotic curve? on a DL? who does that? maybe flattening a little but round, i dunno.

Donald Lee
12-13-2009, 10:02 PM
Question.. when the rounded-back lifts like the SLDL are done, are they done with the back completely relaxed, or is muscular tension still held, merely in a rounded rather than arched position?

I think the ROM is what prevents you from having a complete arch in your back with the SLDL. Some people do them standing on blocks, which necessitates a rounded back. You never want to relax your lower back with a load.

I think another good example of a rounded back lift could be the good morning. It can also be done with a straight back, but with greater ROM, you round your back. There's also the reverse hyper and back extension.

Regarding the other thing Dave was trying to explain, some call them Jefferson Curls:

http://gymnasticbodies.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1471&p=9119&hilit=tommy+kono#p9119

Kelly White
12-14-2009, 08:53 AM
This quote is from that coach Sommer thread, intresting.

Is Spinal Mobility Important?
by Coach Sommer on Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:59 pm

This spinal mobility is very important. A failure to develop it in combination with an over-reliance of "straight" back work, will eventually lead to muscle imbalances where certain vertebrae will lose their mobility, their associated support ligaments will somewhat atrophy and the vertebrae above and below the affected area(s) will strain themselves attempting to compensate. This will result in some rather severe back pain that will not be alleviated until the root problem (a lack of vertebral mobility) causing the issue is resolved.

This issue seems to be far more common in strength athletes who discipline requires an over-emphasis on a straight back; i.e. power lifters, Olympic Lifters, Kettlebell men and ring strength specialists amongst others. Jefferson curls, weighted pike stretches, curling vertical situps and curling reverse situps are all fairly straight forward methods to deal with this situation. Neither the intensity, training loads or volume not need to be high; correctly performing the movements themselves with moderate intensity and volume (1-2 sets of 10 repetitions or so) a few times a week seems to be sufficient. It is primarily simply taking the time to properly articulate the vertebrae throughout their full ROM that results in increased spinal health.

Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer