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Matt Edwards
01-19-2010, 03:48 PM
How does everyone overcome ignorant people?

Today a fellow peer in my major (kinesiology: fitness development; and I'm also in exercise science) tried arguing with me that I was wrong in saying athletes benefit from (hanging) leg raises. Then tried telling me all my training philosophies wouldn't be of benefit to athletes since I was so "olympic" mind-setted. We changed topic to rep schemes and when he told me 8-10 reps was a low number for repetitions I quit talking to him. Mind you this kid is barely passing with a 2.1 and I have a 3.6 (3.75ish without liberal art classes).

Garrett Smith
01-19-2010, 03:54 PM
Depends on what you mean by "overcome".

Just saw Derek Simonds' signature on another thread, figured it fit here perfectly...
It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument. -William G. McAdoo, lawyer and politician (1863-1941)
I'd simply say stop discussing training with this person. Save your energy for the interwebz flame wars.

Steven Low
01-19-2010, 04:05 PM
I don't try to convince anyone of anything anymore.

You just say your piece and then listen and nod if they want to ramble able theirs.

Dave Van Skike
01-19-2010, 04:22 PM
tell him how many athletes you trained that you observed net positives from performing hanging leg raises,

or tell him the benefits you observed doing them yourself....

Or, maybe it's just mental masturbation.

Matt Edwards
01-19-2010, 04:23 PM
Yeah, I should probably stop trying to convince people of things these days, just never seems to work in your favor. At least I only have a year and a half left here until I (hopefully) head off to the best graduate school in kinesiology... Uconn.

Don Stevenson
01-19-2010, 07:48 PM
overcoming ignorant people

1. throw chalk in face
2. right hook
3. shoot for legs
4. move to back
5. rear naked choke

stops the drivel in about 20 seconds flat :D

Seriously though, I give everyone about 2 minutes of my time and if it's clear the conversation is going nowhere i just excuse myself politely and go back to lifting twice as much as they do.

You can't change everyone, the ones who are worth expending effort on will come around quickly. Also be aware of the fallacy of using grades etc to compare yourself to people.

By all quantitative measures no one on earth should be listening to me talk about training because i've been a rubbish athlete all my life but I get results for people and that's all that counts.

People who have opinions that run counter your own beliefs can also be useful in challenging your assumptions and you'd be surprised what you can learn about your own beliefs and methods by having them reflected in a mirror of stupidity.

Kevin Perry
01-19-2010, 09:24 PM
Yell out banana hammock, I learned this form scrubs. It gets me out of every situation and works on ignorant people too. They will be in a total "wtf" look when you say it.

On another serious note, just ignore them, I've been down that route. Just go to your classes, do your work and get out. It's better in the long run.

Brian Stone
01-20-2010, 05:50 AM
Seriously though, I give everyone about 2 minutes of my time and if it's clear the conversation is going nowhere i just excuse myself politely and go back to lifting twice as much as they do.


This is the answer.

Grissim Connery
01-20-2010, 08:18 AM
Seriously though, I give everyone about 2 minutes of my time and if it's clear the conversation is going nowhere i just excuse myself politely and go back to lifting twice as much as they do.


handstand work is nice too. escpecially a nice 90 degree pushup (i gotta cheat and do elbow lever right now though, but they don't know that :) )

Patrick Donnelly
01-20-2010, 09:41 AM
Seriously though, I give everyone about 2 minutes of my time and if it's clear the conversation is going nowhere i just excuse myself politely and go back to lifting twice as much as they do.
This is the answer.

No, this is the answer:
Yell out banana hammock, I learned this form scrubs. It gets me out of every situation and works on ignorant people too. They will be in a total "wtf" look when you say it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yR5Hf90toQ


Dave's post comes in as a close second, but it couldn't beat a Scrubs reference.

Mike ODonnell
01-20-2010, 11:25 AM
Arguing is a waste of time....especially when the other person already has made up their mind and wants to defend their opinion. No one wants to be wrong after all.

Just do your own thing. Let them determine on their own terms in time that perhaps there is another answer and they will be more receptive to listen at that point. Let what you do be that spark for them.

Derek Simonds
01-20-2010, 12:12 PM
Last night I asked my wife if she needed some help with laying out programming for the next 90 days for her clients. She looked at me pulled up her shirt and said "Do I have an 8 pack? Do you think I need help with programming..." The answer by the way is yes she has an 8 pack.

End of discussion even though I don't agree with how she programs :)

I have a technique that I teach salespeople called always agree first. A) it drives people absolutely bat shit crazy and B) when you agree with someone it allows them to at least listen to what you are about to say next. In this case I would say You know I agree with you I am Olympic minded and then I would make my case quickly and be done like Don said.

Chris Forbis
01-20-2010, 03:52 PM
Last night I asked my wife if she needed some help with laying out programming for the next 90 days for her clients. She looked at me pulled up her shirt and said "Do I have an 8 pack? Do you think I need help with programming..." The answer by the way is yes she has an 8 pack.

This is useless without pictures...

Matt Edwards
01-20-2010, 04:01 PM
I like Chris' train of thought lol

Derek Simonds
01-21-2010, 07:03 AM
I just submitted the request...

Jeff Yan
01-21-2010, 07:48 AM
I know this is in the Exercises forum, but when I hear "overcoming ignorance" I usually think about bigotry and prejudice, not arguing over the benefits of hanging leg raises.

So in the context of Exercise, you are Mandela. Your colleague is apartheid.

Grissim Connery
01-21-2010, 08:51 AM
I know this is in the Exercises forum, but when I hear "overcoming ignorance" I usually think about bigotry and prejudice, not arguing over the benefits of hanging leg raises.

So in the context of Exercise, you are Mandela. Your colleague is apartheid.

you are dumbledore. your colleague is the ministry of magic.

Kelly White
01-21-2010, 09:01 AM
Just accept the fact that the Bosu ball is the future of exercise science.

Arden Cogar Jr.
01-21-2010, 10:11 AM
This is really an entertaining thread. Thanks for the commentary.

I prefer to say "let's agree to disagree" then I go back to lifting something really heavy.

And Derek - thanks for the submission.

All the best,
Arden

Gant Grimes
01-21-2010, 01:32 PM
Just graph something along the X and Y axis. Talk until he starts to raise on objection. Then draw a Z axis, talk about rotating the graph around in 3D and proclaim yourself the victor.

Greg Everett
01-21-2010, 02:10 PM
Just graph something along the X and Y axis. Talk until he starts to raise on objection. Then draw a Z axis, talk about rotating the graph around in 3D and proclaim yourself the victor.

for the win.

Jeff Yan
01-21-2010, 06:23 PM
Just graph something along the X and Y axis. Talk until he starts to raise on objection. Then draw a Z axis, talk about rotating the graph around in 3D and proclaim yourself the victor.

If I could add anything, you could then hold the paper up to his face and then punch through the page.

Matt Edwards
01-21-2010, 08:04 PM
I think G.G nailed it right on the button.

Clay Jones
01-21-2010, 09:33 PM
Just graph something along the X and Y axis. Talk until he starts to raise on objection. Then draw a Z axis, talk about rotating the graph around in 3D and proclaim yourself the victor.Working a few "Increased work capacity across broad time and modal domains" into your argument and wearing tribal tatts seems to help as well.

Steve Shafley
01-22-2010, 06:28 AM
I like my pie analogy, and it's just as valid, but tastier.


If I put this pie on end, and spin in, it forms a volume of space similar to a sphere.
Now look. I've eaten a piece of pie.
When we spin the pie again, the area cut out of the volume of the sphere equals fitness.

Derek Simonds
01-22-2010, 07:07 AM
Gant I tried the X, Y and Z thingy on a guy today worked like a charm.

Allen Yeh
01-22-2010, 07:27 AM
Don't forget to add synergy into the talk!

Jamie J. Skibicki
01-22-2010, 10:51 AM
And you invented it all. Make sure to use obscure words in such an opaque way, no one is really sure what you mean

Garrett Smith
01-22-2010, 11:14 AM
And you invented it all. Make sure to use obscure words in such an opaque way, no one is really sure what you mean
Yes. Obfuscate. :)

Mike ODonnell
01-22-2010, 11:16 AM
And you invented it all. Make sure to use obscure words in such an opaque way, no one is really sure what you mean

Thanks for the reminder...I need to go pickup some "Word of the day" toilet paper....

Kevin Perry
01-25-2010, 12:18 PM
Related to this topic, this weekend I was out with a friend (another "personal trainer") and we stopped by his other job for a drink and one the girls he works with asked advice about losing weight and getting fitter. Now he and I don't agree at all with each other when it comes to training so his answers fell in the range of eat your carbs, do the long slow distance cardio thing for 40 - 45 min a day, 10 - 12 exercises for 15 - 20 reps, etc.

My answers fell in the range of get some weight training in there, eat your protein with each meal, limit the carbs and up your fat, stick to intervals or sprints for better fat loss etc. Naturally I get the "WTF" stare, at times like these I am happy I have a beer in my hand so I just finished it off and headed for the door.

Mike Prevost
03-07-2010, 06:56 AM
Related to this topic, this weekend I was out with a friend (another "personal trainer") and we stopped by his other job for a drink and one the girls he works with asked advice about losing weight and getting fitter. Now he and I don't agree at all with each other when it comes to training so his answers fell in the range of eat your carbs, do the long slow distance cardio thing for 40 - 45 min a day, 10 - 12 exercises for 15 - 20 reps, etc.

My answers fell in the range of get some weight training in there, eat your protein with each meal, limit the carbs and up your fat, stick to intervals or sprints for better fat loss etc. Naturally I get the "WTF" stare, at times like these I am happy I have a beer in my hand so I just finished it off and headed for the door.

Intervals for better fat loss? Have you read the latest research? By this I mean actual research, not internet hype.

Steven Low
03-07-2010, 08:18 AM
I'd like to see some research done with people adapted to high carb vs. high fat diets and the effect of interval training on such.

As far as I know there's nothing out on that yet.

Darryl Shaw
03-08-2010, 05:27 AM
I'd like to see some research done with people adapted to high carb vs. high fat diets and the effect of interval training on such.

As far as I know there's nothing out on that yet.

What would be the point of such research when the results would be entirely predictable? I mean even Phinney conceded in his paper Ketogenic Diets and Physical Performance (http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/1/1/2) that "anaerobic (ie, weight lifting or sprint) performance is limited by the low muscle glycogen levels induced by a ketogenic diet, and this would strongly discourage its use under most conditions of competitive athletics".