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Daniel Miller
02-12-2007, 01:34 PM
I'd appreciate some help.
Currently I'm working on gaining some mass while utilizing the PM 17 program.

As of now, I'm eating 5x per day.
7am, 10am, 12, 5, 8 or 9.

I recently nixed the legumes and am eating whole, unprocessed paleo food, with the exception of Bio-test's surge peri- and post WO. (2 full servings=96g Cho, 50g-hyrdolysed whey isolate and some BCAAs). 1-2 days per week I'll then eat 1-2 cups of mashed sweet potato 1 hour after finishing shake.

Two questions.
1. should I utilize the gainer drink while I'm trying to pack on a little more muscle or should I be more concerned with the antagonistic effect of insulin on GH?

2.
I'm having a hard time getting above 2400-2700 total cals per day. In general, I'm eating low Carb, 4-5 blocks protein, and 3-5x Fat at every meal. for a total of 18 blocks with 5x fat. Macronutrient ratio ends up looking like:
12%-C / 28%-P / 60%-F on non-lifting days
25%-C/ 30%-P/ 46%-F- on training days

To up total calories, what should I increase?

thanks in advance.
-Dan

Greg Everett
02-12-2007, 03:09 PM
RE gainer drinks, insulin and gH - this is an ongoing point of contention. personally, it doesn't concern me. i use a load of bad stuff at the moment on my way up to a consistent 94kg--I'm simply unable to eat enough solid food, particularly of paleo quality. i view this as temporary, hence my lack of concern. it's not a practice i plan on continuing longterm.

RE calories - touched on this a bit above, but i'll repeat--it's extremely difficult to get adequate caloric surplus with clean eating. that said, your ratios look pretty good, so i'd say just increase all around. whether or not you can do that with solid paleo food will be dependent on your schedule and your stomach.i end up using powder - cytosport - with an obscene amount of nut butter added to it to supplement my whole food intake.

Nick Cummings
02-12-2007, 06:08 PM
Greg, would you mind posting a sample days worth of food for yourself? As another guy who fights his battles in the kitchen with a spoon it would be interesting to see how you go about it considering so far my athletic success pails in comparison. Thanks!

Yael Grauer
02-12-2007, 06:57 PM
I second that request! In fact, I think everyone here should post their sample foods. I was looking at the Weston Price board member food diaries (http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnutrition/boarddiets.html) and thought, We can do better than this!

Mike ODonnell
02-12-2007, 07:24 PM
greg would you mind posting in lbs....shessssshhh....all this 2.2x conversion is killling me.....

I agree....I am trying to gain the lbs now...and am putting on the lbs using PWO with dextrose and all that fun stuff.....I see it as temporary and will lean out later....but for now....short term insulin spikes is where it is at for me.....once I get to 210 I'll lean out....currently at 195lbs.....

I find it easier to eat high calories to gain muscle and lean out.....rather than eat enougn calories to gain muscle while staying lean.....if that makes any sense.

Again my diet may not be 100% clean....but it's a temporary thing like Greg said......Almond Butter and Jelly Sandwhiches are my saving grace.

Daniel Miller
02-12-2007, 07:24 PM
sounds good.
I'm 5'9
around 149lbs
<10% bf perhaps 7%?

I change it up a lot but here was today:

7am:
1 whole egg
1 cup egg whites
cooked spinach
1-2 tbl pesto or flax oil on omlette.
2 tbl spoon almond butter for desert.
2 fish oil caps

10-
tin of sardines spead in a bell pepper
1 tbl spoon olive oil

12-
5oz chicken breast
spinach 1/2 cup walnuts
1 tbl spoon olive oil
1/2 cup coconut nut milk based curry sauce
2 fish oil caps

5pm-
4 oz ground beef
2 potabella shrooms
ton of broccoli
1 tbl spoon olive oil
3 tbl spoons almond butter

6-7- Capoeira

8:30
4oz chicken breast
1.5 medium sweetpotatos
4 fish oil caps
1 glass shiraz

Greg Everett
02-13-2007, 12:49 PM
Greg, would you mind posting a sample days worth of food for yourself? As another guy who fights his battles in the kitchen with a spoon it would be interesting to see how you go about it considering so far my athletic success pails in comparison. Thanks!

If I posted my current diet, it would topple the PM forever. And bear in mind, my athletic success is waning...

Here's what I will share: My diet is essentiall ad libitum; I no longer weigh, measure, plan or even think too much about what I eat. My first priority is ensuring adequate protein consumption with every meal and my second priority is an obscene amount of calories. How priority number 2 is accomplished is where the problem lies. I do my best to stick with shakes containing assloads of fat, but beyond that, I'm pretty indiscriminate at the moment. Chinese food, all you can eat sushi, pizza, fast food... it gets ugly sometimes, but it's simply the result of having too little time for now and knowing from experience that I personally am unable to consume enough if I try to keep it clean. On a good day, it will be pretty basic - eggs, spinach, fruit, nuts, shake; some kind of meat, vegetables, nuts, shake; repeat that a few times with a shake pretty much every time I think about it and think I can get one down without vomiting.

Mike ODonnell
02-13-2007, 01:34 PM
So Greg is on the Standard American Diet....or SAD eating plan for short.....Ha.

Elliot Royce
02-13-2007, 03:48 PM
I'm trying to eat 4500 calories per day and I am just sick of food. I can't get it down. Two mass gainer shakes at 500 cal apiece only accounts for 1000 cal. I ate a Subway 12" chicken ranch bacon sandwich for lunch to try to get the calories and ended up burping through my workout.

I can only eat so many nuts per day. Help!

Mike ODonnell
02-13-2007, 04:23 PM
Slug a protein drink with every meal....you can cut back on some of the food protein....other than that....liquid fat and almond butter.

Dave Van Skike
02-13-2007, 04:42 PM
I'm trying to eat 4500 calories per day and I am just sick of food. I can't get it down. Two mass gainer shakes at 500 cal apiece only accounts for 1000 cal. I ate a Subway 12" chicken ranch bacon sandwich for lunch to try to get the calories and ended up burping through my workout.

I can only eat so many nuts per day. Help!


coconut milk. plugra butter. hazlenuts are the bomb.
prime rib, landjäger,

liquid fishoil, I take mine in a shot glass. One shot is around 450 kcal.


FWIW. it's hard to gain and eat clean. read this primer on gaining from a man who knows how.

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/oreo.htm

Nick Cummings
02-13-2007, 05:49 PM
Thanks for the info Greg.

I manage pretty decently on the days I am not preoccupied with school. I have a shot glass that is 8 tablespoons and usually full of olive oil. On my good days I hit 4800-5000kcals, on my bad days I'm at 3600-3800kcals. As long as I have a good to bad ratio of about 2/1 I seem to do ok. Hmm off to eat.

Elliot Royce
02-14-2007, 05:47 AM
I'll give it a try guys but I barely stomach a tablespoon of fish oil, much less an entire shot glass (yuck!). I guess I have to man up if I want to bulk up!

Allen Yeh
02-14-2007, 07:19 AM
Most days I take a shake with much along the lines what Dave suggested:

1 can light coconut milk from Trader joes
2 scoops whey protein
2-4 tablespoons of milled flax
1-2 tablespoons of greens powder
1-2 tablespoons of cocoa powder
Sometimes I'll add peanut/almont butter depending

However I'm not currently trying to gain weight I'm taking the shakes while doing IF to get all the calories I need for the day in my limited time frame.

Daniel Miller
02-14-2007, 08:24 AM
Allen,

thanks, i'll try out that recipe between lunch and dinner + almond butter

-Dan

Mike ODonnell
02-14-2007, 11:21 AM
If you can't eat 6000cal/day then the only other way is to ramp down on your activities. A hard workout 2-3x a week with no metabolic work and lots of eating will put on mass....but if you are doing metabolic everyday....you will be lucky to break even on your energy demands. Hence for mass gain it is best to cycle off all metabolic work....get your mass....and then it is easier to get back your endurance. Periodization works better than trying to do everything at once.

Jeff_Dale
02-16-2007, 05:00 PM
TYPICAL DAY FOR ME- THIS IS A DAY OFF
On my workout days I'm around 3100 cal and have slightly more carbs.

cal-F-C-P
2 Egg, white only, raw 33 0 1 7
3 Egg, whole, raw 224 15 2 19
.75 CUP Oatmeal 70 1 14 3
2 Tlbsn Olive oil 239 27 0 0
3 scps Protein diet powder 225 4 5 40
1/2 cup Berries, raw, NFS 22 0 5 0
2 Tblsn Fish oil, cod liver 270 30 0 0
10 oz. Chicken, breast, 458 10 0 86
4 cups Broccoli, raw 99 1 18 10
1 Apple, raw 125 1 32 0
1 Sweetpotatoes 110 0 25 2
.5 cup Walnuts 392 39 8 9
.5 cup Almonds 407 36 14 15
2 Tblsn Fish oil 50 5 0 1
Totals 2724 169 124 193


Totals 2724 169 124 193