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Derian Lai
02-07-2010, 06:53 PM
what do you guys think of that knee snatching video on the crossfit mainsite? good excersise?

Garrett Smith
02-07-2010, 07:26 PM
Are there any testimonials by elite athletes in real sports to their effectiveness? If so, heck, I'm jumping on that train. If not, I'll wait.

Donald Lee
02-07-2010, 08:07 PM
The knee snatching and cleaning looked stupid to me. Knee jumping is a glute-dominant movement. If that's what you want to work on, then I guess it could be useful. Vertical jumping uses quads moreso than glutes or hamstrings. Sprinting uses primarily glutes.

I liked this video on variations on knee jumping:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzBoQIw5we4

travis earp
02-07-2010, 08:30 PM
Also reinforces the bad habit of leaving the bar out front. Just IMO, from what I saw in the video.

Brandon Oto
02-08-2010, 05:53 AM
Vertical jumping uses quads moreso than glutes or hamstrings.[/url]

Sure about this one?

Garrett Smith
02-08-2010, 06:10 AM
Kelly Baggett sez:
Why Some People Can Jump But Can't Run by Kelly Baggett (http://www.enhancedfp.com/workout-programs/speed/why-some-people-can-jump-cant-run-kelly-baggett)
In short, the primary reason some people can jump much better then they can run (other than specific experience in the event of choice and body structure), is primarily due to the muscle dominance differences in generating horizontal vs vertical force. Sprinting inherently requires more horizontal force application which, in comparison to jumping, more heavily involves the muscles of the hips and hamstrings and involves less from the quads and calves. When compared to sprinting, jumping vertically requires more vertical force, which, in addition to plenty of hip activation, requires more contribution from the muscles of the quadriceps and plantar flexors and significantly less from the hamstrings. Your proficiency in extending your hips with power (e.g. driving down and back against the ground horizontally) is mainly responsible for your ultimate top end speed. In the research, horizontal jumping and bounding for distance off one leg has been shown to correlate very well with sprint times.(1) Horizontal jumping also more heavily involves the hip extensors. (2, 3) Real world observations support the notion that sprinters carry much more muscle in the hamstrings and dunkers are often hamstring deficient.
Louie loves the posterior chain, hence taking most of the quads out of an OL movement by doing it from the knees.

Brian Stone
02-08-2010, 07:19 AM
DeFranco says the opposite.
http://www.defrancostraining.com/ask_joe/archives/ask_joe_03-07-25.htm


A: Big calves have about as much to do with how high you can jump as the color of your hair. Sure, there’s nothing wrong with doing some calf raises in your training routine, but they shouldn’t be the focus of the routine. As I’ve said time and time again, the “posterior chain” (spinal erectors, gluteals and hamstrings) makes up around 70% of the musculature that is responsible for your jumping ability. Squat and deadlift variations, Olympic lifts and good mornings will give you the best “bang for your buck” with regards to improving your vertical jump in the weight room.

Garrett Smith
02-08-2010, 07:45 AM
Brian,
I think they may be saying something very similar.

Most people are quad-dominant and need more posterior chain training, however, that doesn't negate that vertical jumping uses a higher proportion of quads and calves, relative to the posterior chain involvement.

Brian Stone
02-08-2010, 08:04 AM
I don't think that they are, Dr. G. I read DeFranco's analysis and his recommended exercises to be pretty clear that he believes leaping to be a PC dominated movement. I'll look into it a bit more, as he has several articles on this subject, but that's my take from what I've seen of his.

James Evans
02-08-2010, 09:10 AM
I don't think that they are, Dr. G. I read DeFranco's analysis and his recommended exercises to be pretty clear that he believes leaping to be a PC dominated movement. I'll look into it a bit more, as he has several articles on this subject, but that's my take from what I've seen of his.

I'm pretty sure I've read DeFranco commenting on the correlation between insertion points of the calves (gastrocs I would assume) and the quality of one's vertical ie he could predict how good a jumper someone was.

That's obviously a matter of leverage rather than size and training isn't going to fix it.

Brian Stone
02-08-2010, 09:43 AM
I'm pretty sure I've read DeFranco commenting on the correlation between insertion points of the calves (gastrocs I would assume) and the quality of one's vertical ie he could predict how good a jumper someone was.

That's obviously a matter of leverage rather than size and training isn't going to fix it.

This is in the same article I linked earlier following the 70% comment; I just didn't include it in my original quote.

There is another very interesting factor that plays a large role in how high you can jump. I’ve had the pleasure of working with over 2-dozen athletes who can jump over 35” and, besides being very strong in the posterior chain, they had something else in common. The one thing they all had in common are what I call “high cut” calves. What I mean by this is that the calves have an insertion point very high on the lower leg. This usually means a longer Achilles tendon. A longer Achilles tendon can store more elastic energy, which translates into more explosive jumps.

Think about this; have you ever seen a kangaroo with big calves? Of course not! The reason they can jump so well lies in the length of their Achilles tendons. Kangaroos have the longest Achilles tendon of any animal on earth. They also spring off the ground better than any other animal on earth. Unfortunately, you can’t increase the length of your Achilles tendon – it’s genetic. You have your parents to thank for that.

It's a factor but also completely genetically determined and thus isn't something on which an athlete can dedicate effort.

Garrett Smith
03-25-2010, 01:56 PM
Get rid of the spammer, please.