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Jay Guindon
02-27-2010, 08:04 AM
What role, if any, should weighted gymnastic movements play in a lifting program? Things like weighted pullups, weighted dips, weighted pushups, etc. If they do play a role should be they be done similar to a normal set/rep scheme like 5X5, 5X3, 7X1, etc.?

Steven Low
02-27-2010, 09:34 AM
Depends on what your goals are..

And yes, they are structured the same as regular barbell work if you're aiming for strength.

Jay Guindon
02-27-2010, 06:15 PM
My fitness goals are health, longevity, maintaining enough fitness to enjoy recreational sport (hockey, snowboard, frisbee, etc.), and I hate to admit it but looking good at the beach plays a small part too.
I'm not interested in performance, competition, pro sport, CF Games, or anything like that anymore.
I used to CrossFit quite a bit for a little over a year but have slowly come to a realization that CrossFit may be a little overkill for my goals, and maybe even counterproductive (i.e excessive cortisol production, Robb Wolf mentioned something about insulin problems as well as CNS stuff with that much intensity all the time, I used to get a lot of minor injuries doing WODs, etc).

Steven Low
02-27-2010, 09:22 PM
You'd probably be interested in the primal blueprint stuff then.

Lift heavy a couple times a week, sprint once or twice, and do low intensity stuff the rest of the time.

Brandon Oto
02-27-2010, 10:18 PM
Weighted dips were terrific for me but aren't for everyone.

I thought an interesting idea would be loading gymnastics movements with bands. Never got a chance to play with it.

Jay Guindon
02-28-2010, 11:58 AM
Question about the cardio stuff in the Primal Blueprint...I was under the impression that lots of cardio was muscle wasting, produced way too much oxidative stress and inflammation, and blunted the immune system?
As far as the original question, for my goals it sounds like weighted gymnastic stuff would be beneficial?

Derek Weaver
02-28-2010, 01:36 PM
To the original question. Yes, they will fit fine.

Regarding cardio, I'm pretty sure the primal stuff is low intensity stuff like walks, hiking etc. That won't mess you up at all.

To be honest, I'm suspicious of anyone who blames "chronic cardio" as the absolute evil it's being made out to be. There are plenty of athletes who do more low intensity work to build overall work capacity. Not in the cf sense though.

Garrett Smith
02-28-2010, 01:58 PM
I love my 5/3/1 weighted dips and chin-ups.

Jay Guindon
02-28-2010, 03:28 PM
Hey Garrett, what's the 5/3/1?

If I don't have time to walk for 5 hours a week do you guys/gals think I could just add a few more short sprint sessions to get the same health benefit? Like maybe 4-5 sprints a week at 2-3minutes?

Steven Low
02-28-2010, 04:15 PM
As long as you're moving throughout the day (well if you have a desk job then take the stairs or something) you'll be fine.

Lift heavy + sprints obviously gives the most benefit. You can build in the weighted pullups/dips/etc. into the heavy lifting.

5/3/1 is Wendler's 5/3/1 program

Derek Weaver
02-28-2010, 05:46 PM
Here's a link to a quick overview of 5/3/1: http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/how_to_build_pure_strength.

I wouldn't just add more sprints in and expect to get the same benefit as easy walks a few times/week.

See this link (http://stronglifts.com/forum/jim-wendler-seminar-some-interesting-points-t19803.html), 3rd block down on easy conditioning.

Intervals/sprints are more useful for most people, however there is a place for walking and other low intensity steady state activity. Take your lunch hour, walk for 30 minutes and then spend the other 30 eating and get back to work. Add in an hour on a weekend and you'll get 2.5-3 hours/week. Not bad when you add up the other movement.

Garrett Smith
03-01-2010, 05:24 AM
One early note...if you do 5/3/1 with weighted dips/chins, make sure to calculate your numbers as your bodyweight + added weight.

Jay Guindon
03-01-2010, 07:27 AM
Thanks a bunch to everyone who contributed, your knowledge is very appreciated, I learned a lot. Derek, thanks for pointing out that walking a lot is easy, it just takes smart planning. Garrett thanks for mentioning 5/3/1, I'm going to use it and see how it goes.

Derek Weaver
03-01-2010, 07:47 AM
Not a problem. This has been one of the better threads with everyone more or less on the same page and adding good info.

Walking is so easy that it's easy to forget about. No big warmup or psyche out to run 4 x400 meters every week.

Donald Lee
03-01-2010, 12:27 PM
One early note...if you do 5/3/1 with weighted dips/chins, make sure to calculate your numbers as your bodyweight + added weight.

According to my rudimentary approximations, your arms are about 15% of your total bodyweight. I've found that using 85% of your BW works out better for the Weighted CU/PU. I haven't used that for Weighted Dips yet, but I'd assume the same.

Garrett Smith
03-01-2010, 01:12 PM
Donald,
What exactly do you mean by "works out better"? I'm assuming you've tried both ways?

Considering proper progressions are taking place, I think both methods will get someone to where they're going in good time.

Changing the bodyweight by 15% probably won't impact the actual weights used by much, it would more impact the weights one starts with on their journey.

Donald Lee
03-01-2010, 02:51 PM
I postd a bunch of calculations but the post got deleted. If you're basing your weights off your 1RM, you'll end up overshooting the weights by using the 100% BW calculation. If you're basing back-off sets off your top set of the day (for example, 95% of your top set), you'll end up undershooting the weights by using the 100% BW calculation.

The difference between using 100% BW and 85% BW is small though, about 2-4 lbs. With 5/3/1, it probably won't matter, since you're undershooting your 1RM anyways. If you're working with higher intensity and lower reps, the difference could mean a missed rep or an extra rep, grinding when you didn't mean to grind or a set being easier than it's meant to be. I don't think you need to be this accurate with the lower body, but I find that being more accurate with the upper body tends to help.

Some food for thought...