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R. Alan Hester
02-15-2007, 07:32 PM
What type of program would you suggest for someone who has no performance needs, but wants to live a long, healthy life? I have been pondering this question after reading some of Devany’s stuff and one of Robb’s posts in which he stated if he were going for a health/longevity bias he would do strength work and 1-2 metcons per week.

Greg Everett
02-15-2007, 07:38 PM
definitely start considering some seasonal training. scott hagnas i think has been messing with this quite a bit. and limiting metCon work to that which can be sustained on a pretty low-carb diet.

Mike ODonnell
02-15-2007, 08:10 PM
Habbits for more cell repair than cell destruction. Antioxidants. IF. Best quality of live raw foods. Stress reduction. Better sleep. At least strength for all major muscles 1x a week, compound movements. Toxin removal from all aspects of life (food, air, water, etc). and Peace of Mind doesnt hurt either.

Yael Grauer
02-15-2007, 08:39 PM
Toxin removal from all aspects of life (food, air, water, etc). and Peace of Mind doesnt hurt either.

I sell water filters. :)

Steve Shafley
02-15-2007, 08:48 PM
Genetics.

My wife's grandfather passed away yesterday. He was 86. WWII vet, drank, smoke, and ate like shit his whole life.

Fairly active too. During Christmas he was playing the harmonica and trying to convince his little great-grand-daughters to dance with him. Spent the summers gardening.

Yeah, you can minimize the risk factors, but it's going to all boil down to genetics.

Mike ODonnell
02-16-2007, 05:04 AM
Cold showers.....last guy interviewed that turned 100 something said that was the advice he followed since WWI..or II or the something.... and it kept him healthy.....

"My wife's grandfather passed away yesterday. He was 86. WWII vet, drank, smoke, and ate like shit his whole life. "

Ahhh....but the crap from 30+ years was actually so much better for you.....it's the modern crap that in killing us quicker.

Steve Liberati
02-16-2007, 05:26 AM
Stress is the silent killer. My wife's uncle died yesterday of a massive heart attack at the young age of 50. Six (3 boys and 3 girls) beautiful children ranging from ages 2 to 17. The most well behaved and respected kids I have ever met. Kills me to think they'll all grow up without their dad. To stand there last night and watch the three little girls hug their daddy and say their goodbyes to him as his deceased body was resting on the hospital bed was probably the one of the most difficult events to witness in my life.

Doesn't have to be this way. The father worked endless hours at DuPont managing stress so his family could have a good life. Unfortunately, his health took a back seat to his career and the nagging from his wife to just slow down never got through.

So I'd say stress management and balancing one's life is one of the main pillars to living a long, healthy life.

Elliot Royce
02-16-2007, 05:45 AM
Steve:

You might be right but did you see that very large study done on identical twins covering decades which showed that genetics were the least predictive of life expectancies? Basically very low correlations. You had twins dying 50 years apart. A lot of it came down to circumstances (smoker/non-smoker) and to just staying out of harm's way or illness. I don't have a link but the NY Times ran a long article on it.

I think when people say "it's all down to genetics" it's a modern way of saying "it's all down to Fate." Remember the Norse myth of the goddesses (Norns) who literally spin our lives out on a spinning wheel and decide when to cut it short? That seems to be it.

Mike ODonnell
02-16-2007, 05:56 AM
"It's all in your genetics" is a crutch that modern medicine has handed down because of their lack of ability to cure much of anything and endless push for pharma sales...I mean if people got healthy how is that good for the economy? Plus it mentally takes away the feeling of power and control over one's health and only helps to spiral people down a road of helplessness and self pity....which is where we come to the modern state of escalating diseases and depression.

So I guess the opposite would be to have a positive outlook on life and believe we can control our health. Take full responsibility for the state of health we are in...and know that actions can be taken when we want to improve it.

I'll take option #2.....as I don't think people really suffer genetically from Restless Leg Syndrome.....

Craig Cooper
02-16-2007, 06:09 AM
Mike and Elliot, I totally agree. "It's all up to genetics" are the words of someone who is resigned and cynical.

The more I read, the more I believe that low carb is the way to go, so I have to agree with Greg about programming. By seasonal programming, do you mean more MetCon in the spring and summer when carbs would traditionally be more available?

Steve Shafley
02-16-2007, 06:26 AM
Resigned and cynical...that's me.

It's like picking the correct parents to be a professional athlete.

It doesn't mean it's going to happen, but it means it's possible and more likely than not.

I think most of us here would like to live for an active and healthy 65 years, rather than 18 years of youth, 4 years of college partying, and then 30 years of working and slow physical decline, then twenty years of increasing frailty and deteriorating health.

I think making the correct choices is going to help.

Elliot Royce
02-16-2007, 07:08 AM
It's hard to disagree with living a long and healthy life, although if it's only to 65 then I'd probably rather be smoking and boozing. Give me 85 at least!

Studies have a habit of contradicting themselves, but the point of the twin study is that longevity, unlike size, eye color, hair color, or to some extent athletic ability, is not controlled by a pattern of genes that we understand yet. There is no set of genes which guarantee long life, and the variation between twins in life outcomes is huge.

In any event, I'm reminded of CS Lewis's logic on whether one should be religious. He said that since God's existence was unprovable, it was the safer option to believe in God since if God exists, one would be saved, whereas if He doesn't you're dead anyway.

Similarly, choosing fitness is going to be the safer choice (as long as you don't sacrifice all of life's enjoyments for it). Spoken like an Irishman, right Mike?

joe murphy
02-16-2007, 07:30 AM
"He said that since God's existence was unprovable, it was the safer option to believe in God since if God exists, one would be saved, whereas if He doesn't you're dead anyway."

I think that is called pascal's wager.

Robert Allison
02-16-2007, 08:12 AM
I think that is called pascal's wager.

It is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager

I seem to recall that DeVany once said something to the effect of "you cannot control outcomes, you can only influence probabilities." In reference to Pascal's wager, the "expected value" of living as though my lifestyle choices will have an effect on my longevity would appear to be higher. Potentially large upside and relatively little (if any) downside.

While there will always be exceptions (the seemingly healthy person who dies young of cancer; the drinking, smoking party machine who lives to 90), there does seem to a fairly significant amount of research indicating that lifestyle choices (not just diet) do have an effect on genetic expression, and therefore, longevity and quality of life. Like most every other area of life, YMMV.

Mike,

Habbits for more cell repair than cell destruction. Antioxidants. IF. Best quality of live raw foods. Stress reduction. Better sleep. At least strength for all major muscles 1x a week, compound movements. Toxin removal from all aspects of life (food, air, water, etc). and Peace of Mind doesnt hurt either.

Excellent summary... especially the parts about stress reduction and peace of mind.

Great question, Alan, and good points by all.

Neal Winkler
02-16-2007, 08:57 AM
For health/longevity, I would exercise randomly between 2-5 times per week, mixing high intensity cardio and strength training workouts. Then I would go on walks, enjoying the fresh air with a loved one. Play. Eat nurtient dense paleo foods. Enjoy life.

Robb Wolf
02-16-2007, 10:18 AM
The prescription in Lights Out is pretty damn close to optimal IMO. Periods of the year at or near ketosis. Some moderate intermittent fasting will accentuate the low carb approach. Pretty much seconding what Greg, Neal and others have said.

I think the point of influencing probabilities is spot on. You never really know what the outcome is but you can certainly influence some parameters. Cases like Uncle Fred who smoke, drank and lived to 90 just tells us there is enormous variability from person to person.

The schedule might look like: 3-4 months classic Crossfit programming. 8-9 months of strength work, hikes, 1 hard met once per week, perhaps 1 easier session.

I think the ketosis and intermittent fasting MIGHT extend life, maybe not. I'm pretty certain a lifestyle like the above will ensure some very high quality of life.

Elliot Royce
02-16-2007, 11:12 AM
Before Mike beats me to it, I would add playing ice hockey with friends at least once a week and enjoying a few pints of beer afterwards (the carbs are vaporized by the insulin response). Nothing better for peace of mind and health of body.

Mike ODonnell
02-16-2007, 11:35 AM
Resigned and cynical...that's me.

But I hear the blinking on the VBlog is very lifelike.....

Before Mike beats me to it, I would add playing ice hockey with friends at least once a week and enjoying a few pints of beer afterwards

Amen....as the Fri Afternoon Guinness club is about to meet in 1 hour....I love bulking phases. :)

Mike ODonnell
02-17-2007, 11:27 AM
Another thing that helped me long ago in stress reduction is the 2 principles of:
1) Awareness
2) Simplicity

Getting a book on Choosing Simplicity was one of the best things I ever did. To this day I have no clutter, no worries about personal property and keep everything to what is essential.

Also the whole awareness thing just keeps me in the moment analyzing what is really going on, what I really need to focus on, what is really important to do today and leave everything else for others to worry about.

In the end...since you dont know how long you will live, just do your best to make your life more peaceful, fun, rewarding and enjoy the daily ride. Control what you can...and don't stress out over the stuff you can't.

Scotty Hagnas
02-18-2007, 01:21 PM
Coming in late as usual, I don't have too much to add to what has already been said. ALL aspects of life must be looked at to insure health and longevity. We tend to focus on the exercise and nutrition components here, but the stress reduction and sleep factors are huge.

I don't think genetics play too big of a part in when we check out. Some, for sure, but we really do have control. Looking back to those hard drinking, smoking individuals who live to an old age - what might they have been doing right? Perhaps a very low stress life? Ate crap food, but got plenty of good sleep?

Re: seasonal training - pretty much as Robb described. Low carb + IF 7-9 months thru the winter, doing strength, skill, and movement work + 1-2 metcons. For 3-4 months in the summer, more frequent metcons, maintenance or low volume strength, and higher carbs.

I'd highly recommend movement health and mobility work for health and longevity training as well. One of the simplest ways to judge the average person's age is to simply observe how they move.

Scotty Hagnas
CrossFit Portland

Steve Shafley
02-18-2007, 08:15 PM
Interestingly enough, my current interest in the thixotropic properties of the body's muscles and connective tissue really, really chime with frequent mobility work.

James Evans
02-19-2007, 08:40 AM
My grandfather on my old man's side was teetotal and never smoked in his life. He died at the age of 98 or so.

Grandfather on my mother's side, drank moderately, never smoked. Died at 95.

Both were pretty damn active up until their last few years when death was probably a welcome visitor. And I mean active, not just getting up to change channels rather than use the remote. And both ate sensible amounts from what I would consider a fairly standard middle class diet from the first half of the twentieth century.

My uncle once told me we had longevity in our genes. BS!

Activity. Alcohol in moderation. Food in moderation. No cigarettes (and I write that as someone who until recently was a heavy smoker). I have little doubt that's why those two men lived so long.

My father was as strong as ox. And I mean strong enough to lift a pool table by himself. But he smoked and drank. Died at 52.
My mother smoked and drank. Died at 30.
Both my grandmothers died young of illnesses relatively unheard of 100 years ago. As did my great grandmother on my mother's side. All smokers.

Dr Mike Stroud puts forward many interesting ideas in his book 'Survival of the Fittest'. Well worth reading. Particularly for those of you who don't believe we were born to exclusively sprint and perform Fran for time.

R. Alan Hester
04-11-2007, 02:45 PM
Thanks everyone for your replies. Below you will find my attempt at distilling all of the pertinent facts out of the above posts in order to provide a cheat-sheet for all that question my emerging approach to life (i.e., my family and friends who find me odd). All future suggestions are welcome.

Alan

Health/longevity Bias Summary:
Exercise:
From September to April: Focus on strength and metcon using ME Blackbox approach w/ 1-2 metcons per week
Example:
M-ME Total
T-metcon (low-intensity GPP= sled pulling, sledgehammer)
W-ME Lower w/ mobility work
Th-metcon (high-intensity GPP= 100m-400m intervals, WOD (Kelly)
F-ME Upper w/ mobility work
S-walk/frolic/rest
Su-Rest

From May to August: Focus on strength maintenance and more metcon
Example:
M- metcon (low-intensity GPP= sled puling, sledgehammer)
T- ME Total w/ mobility work
W- metcon (high-intensity= 400m intervals, WOD (Kelly)
Th- ME Lower/Upper w/ mobility work
F-metcon
S-walk/frolic/rest
Su-Rest


Nutrition: Paleo foods
From September to April: Lowcarb, Intermittent Fasting nutrition plan
References:
Performance Menu Issue for April 2007
The Protein Power Life Plan
Lights Out: Sleep, Sugar, and Survival


From May to August: Seasonal, Local carb sources that can support higher-frequency, higher-intensity metcons while maintaining strength.
References: See above

Mobility:
References: Need suggestions on best works

Sleep:
8-9 hours, perhaps sprinkled with a little ZMA or, in the immortal words of Robb Wolf, as much as you can get without getting fired or divorced.

Stress:
Reduce it

Neal Winkler
04-11-2007, 03:51 PM
Looks good Alan. Remember, you don't have to workout 5 days per week every week either if you just have a health/longevity bias.

Robert Allison
04-11-2007, 04:01 PM
Nice... Very similar to my approach these days. Not so much the specifics of the workouts, but the underlying philosophy. Although I will probably keep more of a strength focus up though the middle of June. I am using a modified SS program right now and want to give it about three months. As a result, I am limiting my metcon a bit more than you.

Regarding mobility, you might check out Magnificent Mobility. I have been using it for a couple of months now, with good results. I also hear that Eric Cobb's Z-Health program is pretty good, but I have no personal experience with it. Pavel also has some material on mobility, but it is a little pricey for what you get (IMO).

I would suggest that you give the ZMA a try, even while following the sleep recommendation from Lights Out.

As far as explaining what you are doing to others... let me know how that works out for you ;)

Mike ODonnell
04-11-2007, 04:05 PM
I agree for maintaining strength a 1x a week workout would probably do well (if increasing is not your goal). Also over use of high intense intervals too often may cause lack of recovery depending on your calories intake. So assuming just for lifelong health you would want to minimize calories without muscle and performance loss. The best way is just trial and error...plus some weeks you may get all your workouts in...some weeks you may not.

Mobility...try Yoga. It's a great active recovery and mobility workout. Plus a great stress reducer....that is if you are not wearing an Ipod with "Welcome to the Jungle" blasting...

Robb Wolf
04-11-2007, 06:16 PM
Great Stuff!

Ken Urakawa
04-11-2007, 08:32 PM
Doesn't Clarence Bass advocate a 1 workout a week approach?

R. Alan Hester
04-12-2007, 09:56 AM
Doesn't Clarence Bass advocate a 1 workout a week approach?

He does advocate it in this article: http://www.cbass.com/GOALSETT.HTM

I do wonder, though, if an approach such as his is doable because of the high level of fitness he built over the years. That is to say, a reformed couchpotato could not get by on 1 strength and 1 high-intensity tabata based protocol that he supports, no?

Mike ODonnell
04-12-2007, 10:12 AM
It is definitely easier to maintain than gain.....so if you are looking for increased strength, muscle size, endurance....then yes probably more than 1x a week is a needed stimulus....however if you are at a level you just want to maintain or progress at a very slow rate...then you can probably get away with a 1x a week full body weighted session....during the week could be additional activities (hiking, running, biking, sled dragging) and general GPP using bodyweight (pushups, pullups...) to keep the G-flux (as Beradi would say) high....Diet also plays a huge role too in maximizing muscle retention. That's the name of the game....keeping muscle and burning fat all day....

Andew Cattermole
04-12-2007, 04:10 PM
When I think Health and Longevity I think in terms of quality of life experience rather then genetic bias.
For most a small amount of exercise is enough to keep them "healthy" but more importantly the exercise should be linked with something of enjoyment and some sort of fulfilment, possibly stimulating to themselves and involves contact with a close social based support group.

I would think that any Health based program should have at its focus Nutritional concerns at the core
Mental relaxation, visualisation and focus protocols
Joint mobility and body awareness
Socially interactive exercise as above.

The mental and physical awareness and feeling of social connection, I believe play a very a major role in health and physical well being.

Mike ODonnell
04-12-2007, 04:22 PM
well said Andrew....yes I believe it is important also.....as I tell people...sell the treadmill and buy a dog with a leash...

kevin mckay
04-28-2007, 06:58 PM
I sell water filters. :)

What kind of filters do you sell?

Grady McDonald
05-01-2007, 04:27 PM
Good Action on this thread.

Yael Grauer
05-01-2007, 05:12 PM
What kind of filters do you sell?

Multipure: http://www.multipureco.com/

I particularly like selling their countertop units here: http://www.multipureco.com/mpad.htm because they are affordable and I can get people a $100 discount.

Robb Wolf
05-03-2007, 09:18 AM
Good Action on this thread.
I agree. This intersection of health, performance and longevity is super interesting IMO.

This paper form Seiler site is pretty interesting as well:
http://home.hia.no/~stephens/maxpower.htm
It makes the point that we have several elements of our fitness that will deteriorate with age but maintaining muscle mass, intensity and consistency of training decrease or halt these rates of loss.

Mike ODonnell
05-03-2007, 09:23 AM
I have personally focused more towards making a lifestyle of health....which means probably only 2x a week with weights....all "cardio" is done on a trail or mountain bike (or hockey)....implementing IF and more insulin lowering techniques....and not being afraid to have some beer and wings on the weekend.....let's see...I no longer obsess about food....feel great all day....performance is up and have gained muscle and lost fat......holy crap....there is something to this........

Robb Wolf
05-05-2007, 11:46 AM
Here is another interesting piece to this whole thing. Intensity of exercise appears to be the most important element of preventing age related performance decline. Here is a nice look at this by Clarence Bass:
http://www.cbass.com/Intensity.htm

This is looking at the differences in performance drop-off between sprinters and endurance athletes. Clarence also mentions the longer careers of athletes like throwers, likely do the the frequent recruitment of the largest motor neurons which appears to prevent the death of these motor neurons.

I remember reading this article years ago...not long after I first found Art Devany's work and it obviously influenced my thinking and I think has rattled in my subconscious on things like the Power Bias article.

Now the Evolution and running thread was interesting...obviously the persistence hunting played a huge role in our ancestors strategies. A key point in that discussion was that the human hunters just had to push animals hard enough to overheat the animals. This pace ranged between a sprint and a trot and for any given individual they were not doing this longer hunt all that often.

Just thinking out loud here...not sure if I have too much of a point....just ideas.

I'm pretty comfortable with the notion that strength and power training can produce a residual effect of significant endurance. The opposite is not the case. Again I'm thinking about this from a health and longevity bias...obviously if one wants to be a stud endurance athlete intervals are not going to be the only part of the story.

This may just be rehashing the power bias stuff but...how much mixed modal work should one do to optimize this health/longevity bias? I'd argue for some, but certainly not all. I'd argue for some max strength work for the major movement planes, some sprint work, various intensities and distances, some ballistics like jumping, throwing, hitting and kicking...i think Ross Enamait calls these "power combos"...2-4 movements then a significant rest before the next combo. From there just generally being active and having fun.

Oh! Something else! Shaf mentioned not buying the neuroendocrine element of training as being that big a deal for the training effect. Now I do remember from some of Kramers work that only the muscles worked during a session benefit from the NE response...but the NER is predicated on activation of the largest motor neurons and big movements. I also remember vaguely that the large motor neurons and the attendant fast twitch fibers are quite sensitive to androgen levels...if androgen levels drop...those things die. I need to think about this but it looks like a chicken and egg feed back loop. You need to train the large motor neurons to produce a NER and increase androgen levels AND the large motor neurons are dependant on androgen levels...


Anyway...just had some ideas. Please pick this stuff apart/comment on it.

Robb Wolf
05-10-2007, 01:29 PM
I poured my SOUL out here and nobody has a thing to add or comment on?!:(

R. Alan Hester
05-10-2007, 01:37 PM
Robb,
I plan on commenting, I just need a moment to collect my thoughts. I just finished moving, so I have been away form the forum for 9 days. So, keep your chin up, soldier:)

Robb Wolf
05-14-2007, 12:31 PM
LOL! Thanks Alan!

R. Alan Hester
05-14-2007, 03:05 PM
[QUOTE=Robb Wolf;10927]Here is another interesting piece to this whole thing. Intensity of exercise appears to be the most important element of preventing age related performance decline. Here is a nice look at this by Clarence Bass:
http://www.cbass.com/Intensity.htm

This is looking at the differences in performance drop-off between sprinters and endurance athletes. Clarence also mentions the longer careers of athletes like throwers, likely do the the frequent recruitment of the largest motor neurons which appears to prevent the death of these motor neurons.

I think his article makes sense. From an anecdotal perspective, this holds true. My father and his army buddies, for example, used to bench, squat, row and do pull-ups and finish with wind sprints 3x a week. After 26 years of army life, all of them are still well-muscled and strong as an ox. Some of his coworkers who were endurance nuts, however, are all frail and feeling their age and service injuries. Another example is my father-in-law. He has lifted weights (compound movements) as well as done gpp as part of his job for the last 37 years and he is a strong 60 year old dude with 8 percent BF (think getting old is for sissies poster).



This may just be rehashing the power bias stuff but...how much mixed modal work should one do to optimize this health/longevity bias? I'd argue for some, but certainly not all. I'd argue for some max strength work for the major movement planes, some sprint work, various intensities and distances, some ballistics like jumping, throwing, hitting and kicking...i think Ross Enamait calls these "power combos"...2-4 movements then a significant rest before the next combo. From there just generally being active and having fun.

Good points. I wish I could add something, but I agree with the above. I am slowly bringing my wife into the health/longevity path, because she just retired from being an NBA dancer, so her perfomance needs have ended. Currently, she lifts weights twice a week hitting the major movement planes over the two workouts, does yoga twice a week, one day of sprints or sled drags, and one day of mix-modal stuff. All of the above is done over 4 random days with three days of rest.


I have some questions here:
1) On a low-carb, paleo diet how long should one rest between “power combo” movements? If they are governed by phosphate system and allow the maximal effort of 1 to 8 seconds, then how quickly should one resume?
2) Sprints of varying intensities: Because these are driven by the Lactate (glycolitic) system if kept below 180 seconds, then how often can these be performed for a paleo dieter who eschews fruit? What would be the proper work/rest interval for a Health/longevity bias person.
3) Should one focus on intervals that improve power, speed, and explosiveness, which are influenced by very hard intervals (98-99% of Max HR) of short duration (30 to 60 seconds) with long recovery periods (1:5 ratio).

Finally, how should one evaluate progress on a health/longevity plan? Strength gains? Flexibility? Blood work? A performance bias seems obvious because you are training to perform a specific task, but someone attempting to live on a H/L path has no task to perform, other than being playful, happy, and healthy.

More to come.

Alan

Robb Wolf
05-15-2007, 10:38 AM
[quote=R. Alan Hester;11684][quote]

I think his article makes sense. From an anecdotal perspective, this holds true. My father and his army buddies, for example, used to bench, squat, row and do pull-ups and finish with wind sprints 3x a week. After 26 years of army life, all of them are still well-muscled and strong as an ox. Some of his coworkers who were endurance nuts, however, are all frail and feeling their age and service injuries. Another example is my father-in-law. He has lifted weights (compound movements) as well as done gpp as part of his job for the last 37 years and he is a strong 60 year old dude with 8 percent BF (think getting old is for sissies poster).





Good points. I wish I could add something, but I agree with the above. I am slowly bringing my wife into the health/longevity path, because she just retired from being an NBA dancer, so her perfomance needs have ended. Currently, she lifts weights twice a week hitting the major movement planes over the two workouts, does yoga twice a week, one day of sprints or sled drags, and one day of mix-modal stuff. All of the above is done over 4 random days with three days of rest.


I have some questions here:
1) On a low-carb, paleo diet how long should one rest between “power combo” movements? If they are governed by phosphate system and allow the maximal effort of 1 to 8 seconds, then how quickly should one resume?

One way this might be approached is: 3-4 left hooks, footwork for 3-10 seconds, 3-4 right hooks, foot work, 2-3 thai kicks right, footwork, 2-3 thai kicks left footwork, grab the bag and perform 4-6 skip knees foot work...

This is for almost pure power development. One will get a mild conditioning effect but each interval is short enough to only tax the ATP/CP pathway and then one shifts to another movement entirely thus allowing for quite a bit of recovery for each specific movement. Various plyometric drills and medicine ball drills lend themselves to this approach also.
2) Sprints of varying intensities: Because these are driven by the Lactate (glycolytic) system if kept below 180 seconds, then how often can these be performed for a paleo dieter who eschews fruit? What would be the proper work/rest interval for a Health/longevity bias person.
Tough to tell. Are you relying purely on hepatic glucose control-ie. gluconeogenesis? How much protein is being consumed? Any medium density veggies like squash and onions? One may only need one session like this per week to maintain "good" VO2 max. So perhaps one lactate intensive sprint session and occasionally one ATP/CP session? The power combos mentioned above might sub for this nicely.

something nice about switching modalities here is the hormonal response is not blunted if the body is not acclimated by frequent exposure.

3) Should one focus on intervals that improve power, speed, and explosiveness, which are influenced by very hard intervals (98-99% of Max HR) of short duration (30 to 60 seconds) with long recovery periods (1:5 ratio).

I just think a mix of intervals and modalities is the key. Occasionally something like tabatas, occasionally something like 400m runs with 4 min rest between efforts...everything in-between.

Finally, how should one evaluate progress on a health/longevity plan? Strength gains? Flexibility? Blood work? A performance bias seems obvious because you are training to perform a specific task, but someone attempting to live on a H/L path has no task to perform, other than being playful, happy, and healthy.

I think maintaining performance and body comp are two main indicators. Blood work that tracks insulin levels, inflammatory status and androgen levels makes sense.

From the purely longevity perspective we want a balance of these elements:
1-maintaining our current cell population. Improvements in hormone status can improve DNA repair enzymes and the removal of cellular detritus such as lipofuscion...this will keep our cells alive longer. We want to avoid burning our cells through too many divisions as we will reach the hayflack limit (about 50 cell divisions) and will have little or no telomeres on our DNA...cell death follows.
2-While we are trying to maintain healthy cell lines we also want to encourage the apoptosis of abnormal cells (cancer). Ketosis and intermittent fasting appear to be very powerful in this regard.
3-The cells that DO die need to be replaced. We have a pool of stem cells that can replace them but the stem cells can be depleted in a hyper-fed, hypr-insulinemic state. This is a proposed mechanism of many neurodegenerative diseases. Solution? Low insulin levels, ketosis and intermittent fasting to increase things like brain derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF).

Robb

Steve Shafley
05-15-2007, 11:38 AM
Good stuff.

I can see where this is going, and I like it. I'm going to have to read it a few more times to get it assimilated before I can comment more in depth.

Robb: My thinking regarding the short term effects of an NE response is probably, upon review, incomplete, due to the effects long term.

Mike ODonnell
05-15-2007, 01:43 PM
[QUOTE] Good points. I wish I could add something, but I agree with the above. I am slowly bringing my wife into the health/longevity path, because she just retired from being an NBA dancer, so her perfomance needs have ended.

How long have you been waiting to throw that in a post...... :D

All great posts above....I do of course try to keep it all simple and to the basics....so for exercise, it's about the quality and intensity....not the quantity (aka long drawn out aerobic style workouts). I think the harder the stimulus (in a short timeframe...as too much goes in the other direction) to the body, the greater adaption (aka sprints, heavy weights). True Health I define as the rate of cellular repair is greater than the rate of destruction, while maximize cellular detoxification and waste removal. So do as much as you can to promote repair, detoxification and remove as many stressors, cellular destroyers and toxins from your life.

R. Alan Hester
05-15-2007, 03:31 PM
How long have you been waiting to throw that in a post...... :D

Touché, MOD! ;)

Daniel Myers
05-15-2007, 08:24 PM
One thing we should do is look at examples of guys that have stayed healthy and fit into old age and find what they have in common. Interestingly, there are a lot of superficial variations in diet and exercise.

For example, Art DeVany has his system -- randomly scheduled intense lifting, lots of walking, paleo diet, and picking up chicks -- and it's obviously worked well for him. Jack LaLanne is going strong in his 90s, and he eats a vegetarian diet and exercises two hours every day, almost the opposite of what DeVany recommends. Clarence Bass is similar in some ways to DeVany, but has his own little peculiarities.

Despite the differences, we can still find a lot of common ground between these approaches.

First, consistency. DeVany, LaLanne, and Bass all became interested in fitness as young men and stayed with it for their whole lives. We all know that it's easier to maintain than to gain, so building a good base while you're young and then maintaining as much of it as possible as you age is a very good strategy. Of course, people starting at an older age can still make good progress, but if you're young, you want to take advantage of what you have now and train for the long term.

Second, body composition and maintaining lean mass. This argues for some kind of resistance training as a regular part of your program.

Third, a diet of natural foods, with no sugars or processed products. Every health and longevity star I've heard of follows this rule, regardless of the differences between their diets.

Basically, I'm not sure there's a Master Plan to guarantee a long and active life, but there are general principles that have proven successful. The trick is finding an implementation of the principles that you can follow for decades.

Mark Bennett
05-16-2007, 05:40 AM
Hey guys,

Great information/discussion going on in this thread. Please keep it coming as I am sure this is something that must be of interest to all. Also more links etc to supplementary reading would be appreciated.

Mark

Robb Wolf
05-16-2007, 06:34 AM
Daniel-
Good stuff. Clarence Bass had another piece on a guy, Roy Hilligan. Vegetarian...and complete bad-ass. Consistency of training, clean diets...I was going to say not over achievers on the athletic front but LaLane kinda throws a wrench in that!

These are some good generalities but I'm just curious if decreasing glycolytic flux, intermittent fasting and some other approaches add to this? Here are some photos of people aging well...Hilligan photo included:
http://www.legendaryfitness.com/PicsofMonth.htm

Daniel Myers
05-16-2007, 08:38 PM
Thanks, Robb.

I know you've written about the positive effects that IF and Power Bias training have on the body's various hormones. I'm not an expert on this, but from reading the internets I understand that endocrine system derangement is a major cause of age-related problems and poor health: low testosterone, insulin resistance, etc. If that's the case, programs that manipulate your hormonal profile would be very valuable from a longevity standpoint.

I recall reading one article that predicted youth-extension programs would be the next major trend in health and fitness. Baby boomers will be willing to spend a lot of money to keep themselves from looking and feeling old.

Mike ODonnell
06-14-2007, 10:01 AM
Giving another bump to this thread cause it is such a good one.....Walshy hit on it and reminded me about it....

Of course I am not really trying to be an athlete professionally...but rather want to make life more simple and enjoyable....to that I am now changing my routine up for:
- IF every day (eat 1pm-7pm..have a Guinness here and there)
- Sat eat whatever I want
- Gym workout 2x a week (1hr each)....Mon, Thurs....compound movements 5x5, 3x10
- Eat a ton (esp protein) during my feeding hours
- Only use Whey/BCAA for post workout days
- No set schedule but bike, play ice hockey, trail/track run....whenever I feel like it...
- (Since I am in a gym everyday) Do some heavy single lifts here and there....add some bodyweight GPP whenever....

Again...only a scheduled 2x a week workout..maybe one week is only 1x...but other than that all the other GPP is just fun and whenever....some weeks may do more...some maybe not....gives the variety and lifestyle I am looking for....in 1 month have made great gains not even trying....and stressing IF and plenty of recovery for long term health....

R. Alan Hester
06-14-2007, 01:57 PM
Good post, MOD.
I really love not having to be in any particular performance shape. The freedom is great.

Here is what I have been doing since mid April. In that time, I have leaned out a lot (15 pounds or 2 ½ inches in the waist) eating 90% Paleo and IFing 3-5 days a week for approx. 17 hours. When I cheat, it is usually with wine, chocolate, and cheese. Since my wife sales wine, it keeps the family life sane.

2X a week: —A1: Push (standing press or ring dips) 5 sets of 3-5 reps
A2: Pull (Weighted Pull-ups or DB rows) 5 sets of 3-5 reps
1 minute rest between A1 and A2 (I stole this from Ross Enamait and Mike Mahler)

—B1: Deadlift (or Squat)5X 3-5 reps (from Robb's article in May PM)
B2: Hanging leg raise, Knee-to-elbows, or 60 sec planks
1 minute rest between B1 and B2

—5 minute finisher (set timer and go for it): sledge hammer, ball slam, ball toss, KB swings, or sprints.

1-2X a week: a metcon workout from Coach Rut, Crossfit, Ross Enamait, or a dumbbell complex I make up or steal from someone who stole it from someone else, etc.

Mike ODonnell
06-25-2007, 05:08 PM
Good article on long term health and training from a former endurance athlete. Fits into this thread nicely.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/case-against-cardio/

and another
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/10-90/

Mike ODonnell
07-27-2007, 04:55 AM
another shot of adrenaline for the thread....I mean what kind of health and longevity thread dies off???

Hack you age
very consise and some good tips...

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/aging-hacks/

Robb Wolf
07-27-2007, 06:40 AM
good concise stuff. Nice find.

Mark Bennett
07-30-2007, 07:25 AM
Agree with Mike this thread should be kept going.

Found this http://www.goanimal.com/newsletters/2004/all_you_eat/all_you_eat.html

On the Frank Forencich Go Animal site and thought it sums up what a lot of people have been saying on this subject.

mark

Mike ODonnell
07-30-2007, 07:56 AM
Agree with Mike this thread should be kept going.

Found this http://www.goanimal.com/newsletters/2004/all_you_eat/all_you_eat.html

On the Frank Forencich Go Animal site and thought it sums up what a lot of people have been saying on this subject.

mark

Good article...I like the breakdowns of the mental, social and physical (not exercise) needs that we are becoming deficient in....

William Hunter
07-30-2007, 09:17 AM
One topic that has not been brought up directly in this thread (though it probably falls loosely under stress reduction) is SEX, as in a healthy and fulfilling sex life (hopefully with someone, not something) and its role in longevity.

A few years ago I was trying hard to build my Chiro practice, there were 3 kids in the house(2 of them in diapers), sleep was a luxury, money was tight and my wife's and my sex life suffered. With certain needs being unfulfilled, I tended to have more late night snacks and engage in more general binge-type behavior. These were hardly my healthiest years. Now that the youngest is 4, the finances are solid etc, we have gone through a second wave of sexual giddiness and we've recently spent a lot of time (post coital) discussing how important sexual fulfillment is in one's life. Physiologically speaking, there's gotta be some good stuff happening. How much can we harm ourselves by not taking full advantage of this natural resource?

I have an old book called The Tao of Health, Sex, and Longevity that hits this topic in depth. The Taoists place sexual activity near the top of their list of priorities for a long and healthy life. Of course, the Taoists believe that while the male should have sex often, he should "preserve essence", or as the author puts it, have "contact without leakage" (LOL). This is to allow your body to redirect the sexual energy elsewhere in the body. I've never read anything that actually supports this theory, but the warm fuzzies I experience do seem to be some type of NER, not unlike a good WO.

Thoughts?

Robb Wolf
07-30-2007, 09:28 AM
Sex. Good.

William Hunter
07-30-2007, 09:49 AM
And there you go. Probably best not to delve too deeply into the technical side of things. Just make sure you get some.

Mike ODonnell
07-30-2007, 11:46 AM
Sex. Good.

Paleo Sex...Better

Garrett Smith
07-30-2007, 01:53 PM
I love most of the Go Animal newsletters/articles...

My impression is that Frank should leave the nutrition "knowledge" to other people. As in, don't we all know we should eat breakfast...

Mike ODonnell
08-04-2007, 04:09 PM
funny how we forget about people like this...but Jack deserves his due

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KBvCrSjpx9I
http://youtube.com/watch?v=vBVk071N88M&mode=related&search=

Living example....over 90, active, running around, no memory issues.....but yet we think we still don't have the answers to health in modern society....sad really....as people already had the answers 50 years ago....without all these modern breakthroughs in science, fad diets and other studies....just people chose not to listen....they need to rebroadcast his show on TV...as it would be the only thing worth watching nowadays....

Robb Wolf
08-06-2007, 06:28 AM
MOD-
Great find...what a stud!

Mike ODonnell
08-06-2007, 08:17 AM
MOD-
Great find...what a stud!

Great thing about Jack....I mean besides him selling his juicer and all....is he was in on fasting long ago....he was buddies with Bragg (Mr ACV himself), another good guy to read up on who is pushing health into his later years....

http://www.amazon.com/Miracle-Fasting-Throughout-Spiritual-Rejuvenation/dp/0877900361

William Hunter
08-23-2007, 11:34 AM
The way I heard the story was that Jack was a pimply and weak teenager when his mother took him to hear Paul Bragg speak. Bragg gave him some instructions (including removal of sugar from the diet - this was over 70 years ago) and words of encouragement. The rest, they say, is history.

I believe Paul Bragg is dead, killed by breaking his neck bodysurfing off the California coast while in his 90's. What a way to go. Big advocate of fasting.

If all this info is wrong, don't blame me, blame the internets.

Mike ODonnell
08-23-2007, 02:12 PM
The way I heard the story was that Jack was a pimply and weak teenager when his mother took him to hear Paul Bragg speak. Bragg gave him some instructions (including removal of sugar from the diet - this was over 70 years ago) and words of encouragement. The rest, they say, is history.

I believe Paul Bragg is dead, killed by breaking his neck bodysurfing off the California coast while in his 90's. What a way to go. Big advocate of fasting.

If all this info is wrong, don't blame me, blame the internets.

Considering Bragg was born in like 1895....I'll listen to any guy who died bodysurfing in his 90s....His books are a good quick read...little repetitive some of them but the same info, lift weights, fast, ACV, fresh fruits and vegetables, deep breathing.....can't argue with people living strong into their 90s.....add Guinness and you have my new book in the works!

Edward Friedman
08-23-2007, 07:03 PM
Paleo Sex...Better


Yeah, those paleo folks must've been thinking, "Hey, we've got a whole planet to populate. Let's get busy !":)

Robert McBee
08-26-2007, 10:53 PM
DeVaney had this on his site that seems to tie in to what Robb mentioned about clearing intercellular detritus:


"Autophagy (self eating or consumption) is a crucial process in the cell. The cell consumes and recycles damaged internal material; this is an energy sparing process and important for scavenging old and damaged material within the cell. Autophagy is an important element in energy management and damage repair. The energy and protein content of damaged material is used to fuel rebuilding and cellular energetics.

The process seems to be triggered when the energy content of the cell declines so that the cell literally consumes itself. It goes after the damaged materials first, so there is a strong link between repair of damaged tissues and fasting or low energy state in the cell. So, it you are over-fed you down regulate cellular repair. You want to go hungy episodically to turn on cellular autophagy and repair those damaged tissues.

This makes a lot of sense from an evolutionary perspective. When the energy in the cell declines, the cell eats the damaged tissues for energy and that recycles the damaged tissues to make new material. The result is a healthier cell. It is efficient for the cell to turn to damaged materials first as a source of energy, thus sparing healthy tissues. So, in addition to fat, damaged internal materials of the cell are a source of energy. A fat person has a lot of damaged tissues inside cells and never recycles and repairs them because there is too much energy in the cell.

Of course, exercise has the same effect because it lowers energy stores in the cells and also because it damages muscle cells, causing them to repair themselves through autophagy".

R. Alan Hester
09-12-2007, 02:52 PM
This thread is on its death-bed.

Do you think Low-rep lifts that give a CV stimulus would be a good approach to Metcon during the winter months when carbs are low? Since strength is the main focus then, would these get in the way or sap too much energy?
(see here: http://www.performancemenu.com/forum/showthread.php?p=19535#post19535)

Robb Wolf
09-12-2007, 04:33 PM
This thread is on its death-bed.

Do you think Low-rep lifts that give a CV stimulus would be a good approach to Metcon during the winter months when carbs are low? Since strength is the main focus then, would these get in the way or sap too much energy?
(see here: http://www.performancemenu.com/forum/showthread.php?p=19535#post19535)


I think Scotty H. has played with this with good results...the Health bias is still speculative but it makes sense.

Mike ODonnell
09-12-2007, 05:53 PM
Do you think Low-rep lifts that give a CV stimulus would be a good approach to Metcon during the winter months when carbs are low? Since strength is the main focus then, would these get in the way or sap too much energy?
(see here: http://www.performancemenu.com/forum/showthread.php?p=19535#post19535)

Would make sense, as I do low carb eating IF style and fasted workouts only when strength is involved....other more demanding or sustained metabolic/glycolitic exercises are followed with pwo recovery. All depends on your training and goals...but I like the strength with low carb/IF.

Mike ODonnell
09-13-2007, 11:51 AM
Back to revive this thread....great list on foods here....as the right foods promote health and longevity....

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/power-foods/#comment-8163

Chris Forbis
09-13-2007, 04:22 PM
Back to revive this thread....great list on foods here....as the right foods promote health and longevity....

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/power-foods/#comment-8163

Geez, take away the nightshades and what's left is close to all I eat!

Garrett Smith
09-14-2007, 08:49 AM
I can't wait to drop the nightshade article, I'm going to do some final research (for this article at least) at the medical library tonight.

Suffice it to say, I have a hard time believing that no one beside me has put together these pieces. It's really scary.

Mike ODonnell
09-24-2007, 08:42 AM
Another bump to the thread...interesting article about health amoung different cultures...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20827187/?pg=1#WorldsHealthiestGuys

Mike ODonnell
12-10-2007, 12:43 PM
Now we can't have a longevity thread die off....that would be.....ironic.....

More to add from Eades
The cell membranes of both young and old honey bee queens are highly monounsaturated with very low content of polyunsaturates. Newly emerged workers have a similar membrane fatty acid composition to queens but within the first week of hive life, they increase the polyunsaturate content and decrease the monounsaturate content of their membranes, probably as a result of pollen consumption. This means their membranes likely become more susceptible to lipid peroxidation in this first week of hive life. The results support the suggestion that membrane composition might be an important factor in the determination of maximum life span. Assuming the same slope of the relationship between membrane peroxidation index and maximum life span as previously observed for mammal and bird species, we propose that the 3-fold difference in peroxidation index of phospholipids of queens and workers is large enough to account for the order-of-magnitude difference in their longevity.
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/2007/03/13/longevity-and-membrane-saturation/

Dump the PUFAs for health.

Mike ODonnell
12-11-2007, 07:28 AM
Mine as well change the name of this to MODs log. Ha!

Interesting story
http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSWRI08454820071211
Mediterranean diet lengthens Americans' lives
Men whose diets were closest to the Mediterranean ideal were 21 percent less likely to die over five years than men whose diets were least Mediterranean-like. Similar results were seen in women.

"These results provide strong evidence for a beneficial effect of higher conformity with the Mediterranean dietary pattern on risk of death from all causes, including deaths due to cardiovascular disease and cancer, in a US population," Dr. Panagiota N. Mitrou of the University of Cambridge in the UK and colleagues conclude.

A number of studies have linked the Mediterranean diet, which is rich in fish, fruits and vegetables and nuts and low in dairy foods and red meat, to health benefits, the researchers note in the Archives of Internal Medicine.

Now personally I love the fact that red meat is forbidden and therefore must be evil....but that is common mentality anyways...nothing new, but I would guess it's largely due to insulin control (no sugar), antioxidants, Omega 3s and more stable fats (MUFAs)....that and people probably lost weight and decreased insulin resistance which is prob the biggest #1 health issue that affects all diseases today.

Troy Archie
12-11-2007, 08:24 AM
Now personally I love the fact that red meat is forbidden and therefore must be evil....but that is common mentality anyways...nothing new, but I would guess it's largely due to insulin control (no sugar), antioxidants, Omega 3s and more stable fats (MUFAs)....that and people probably lost weight and decreased insulin resistance which is prob the biggest #1 health issue that affects all diseases today.

That really is the key though isn't it? Insulin that is. Bass, Lalanne, DeVany all follow that same guideline even if they don't realize it.

Mike ODonnell
12-11-2007, 11:21 AM
That really is the key though isn't it? Insulin that is. Bass, Lalanne, DeVany all follow that same guideline even if they don't realize it.

I'm no medical expert...but in my book Insulin Resistance is the #1 factor you can tie to so many other diseases....as with insulin resistance you get the cells not able to correctly absorb nutrients, minerals, vitamins...lead to fat storage...lead to inflammation...lead to diabetes...lead to cell degredation...lead to increase risk of cancers....lead to joint inflammation....lead to accelerated ageing...etc...

I mean there are lots of factors involved....say Gut Health....but if you are treating insulin resistance with the right foods and no sugar...then your gut will heal. Seeing how to reverse insulin resistance you need resistance exercise, no sugar, fasting, proper foods for blood sugar control, omega 3s....sounds like everything you need to do anyways. The only thing that varies is the level of resistance per person as people in worse shape need to do more of the things listed above to try and get back to whatever normal may be.

Susie Rosenberg
12-12-2007, 06:16 AM
If you look at the picture with the broadest possible lens, you see something interesting, I think.

The broadest possible lens takes a snapshot of a country's health by capturing life expectancy; infant mortality; death rates by disease catagory, and disease incidence and prevalence.

When the United States is compared to other countries, the picture is disappointing. The U.S. Census Bureau indicates that 43 countries have life expectancies that exceed the United States, and 40 countries have a lower infant mortality rate than the United States. Even within the U.S., the states with the lowest infant mortality rates rank 25th or lower when compared to other countries. Canada, Australia, Spain, France and Germany all exceed our best state rates in terms of infant mortality.

The contributing factors to the lower life expectancy rates in the United States can be seen by comparing age-adjusted mortality rates for the United States to seven other developed countries (Canada, France, Germany, Greece, Japan, Spain and the United Kingdom). Not only does the United States have a higher mortality rate than all of these countries for ischemic heart disease; trachea, bronchitis and lung cancer; and diabetes mellitus; but additionally, the U.S. is higher than six of these seven countries for unintentional injuries, intentional injuries and neuropsychiatric conditions. (From http://www.unitedhealthfoundation.org/ahr2007/comparisons.html#End%20Notes)

So, let's take France and Japan and look at diet.

Japanese eat fish, white rice, vegetables, not much fat.

French people start their day with a breakfast of coffee with milk, a white flour piece of bread with butter and jam. They eat a diet relatively high in fat, including saturated fats, and drink wine daily.

Yet both traditions-vastly different traditions--spawn better national health pictures than the US.

I'm coming to the conclusion that the big issue in the US is industrialization of the food chain. That big picture snapshot shows that when people across the world leave their traditional food cultures behind and adopt US-style consumption, their disease rates rise and life expectancy drops. They get sick, US-style.

The antithesis of the US industrial diet means trying to live by the following principles:

1. Eat whole, real foods.
2. Eat local, fresh, and in season whenever possible.
3. Find a source--preferably local, that you can visit--- for grassfed meats, eggs, and dairy products that are raised without routine use of antibiotics or growth hormones.
4. Avoid buying foods from the middle of the supermarket aisles: those things with long lists of ingredients and fancy packaging. This includes organic foods that are manufactured or packaged. Organic brownies are no better for you than the regular kind.
5. Slow down: learn to eat slowly and mindfully. Enjoy your food, and the company you keep when you eat it.
6. Limit sugar. Limit sugar. Limit sugar. Limit sugar.

I honestly don't think it's necessary to balance nutrients a la The Zone; I don't think you have to eat or eschew red meat to be healthy; I don't think eating foods like barley, quinoa, buckwheat, whole oats is bad; I don't think it's necessary to eat a lot of fat--even omega 3--to be healthy; I don't think it's necessary to avoid eating a big percentage of your total calories as fat.

I think the critical element is to eat food grown in good soil, as close to harvest as possible, grassfed animal products, wild fish, and limit sugar.

Rant off.

Susie

Gant Grimes
12-12-2007, 06:34 AM
Susie, welcome to CA/PM.

Troy Archie
12-12-2007, 07:10 AM
Awesomeness and I fully agree, esp about the "industrialization of the food chain". Slow food is good.

Mike ODonnell
12-12-2007, 07:42 AM
Great post Susie! So true...funny how people are looking for the magic combination of foods for longevity when some cultures eat high fat..low fat..or whatever...the common link so overlooked is no processed foods and high quality natural foods. Sugar is public enemy #1 when it comes to health...but yet industry #1 when it comes to the government and a society based on public companies and ever increasing profit. The fact that you have a "good for your heart" label on something that is processed and loaded with sugar....or that your dieticians and doctors telling people how to eat are overweight and sick....just makes for a warped sense of reality.

Susie Rosenberg
12-12-2007, 02:13 PM
Susie, welcome to CA/PM.

Thanks, Gant. I'm here to learn something about getting stronger. Very informative site and interesting board!

Susie

Garrett Smith
12-12-2007, 03:34 PM
Yes, welcome Susie, to the forum!

Your combining of dance and CF-style GPP must leave your dance colleagues in awe at your fitness (and probably a massive reduction in injuries as well, I'd guess).

Susie Rosenberg
12-12-2007, 06:37 PM
Yes, welcome Susie, to the forum!

Your combining of dance and CF-style GPP must leave your dance colleagues in awe at your fitness (and probably a massive reduction in injuries as well, I'd guess).

Oh, Geeze, Dr. G....I don't really dance anymore!

I was actually not a very good dancer, but in my late teens and early twenties, I did some summer stock theater. I was good enough to fake it in the back of the chorus line. Studied with some good teachers, though.

No, now at age 52, I'm content to do my thing: mostly cycle long distance recreationally, and have at my Crossfit workouts. These have pointed up how weak I am, especially in the upper body, so I'm approaching 2008 as the year Susie Gets Stronger.

Thanks for the welcome..:)

Susie

Greg Battaglia
12-12-2007, 06:55 PM
Awesome stuff, Susie. I couldn't agree with you more. Welcome

Mike ODonnell
02-01-2008, 08:37 AM
long live this thread! Pardon the pun...

excellent post at MDA on longevity and muscle conection.
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/organ-reserve-muscle-mass-aging/

Mike ODonnell
04-21-2008, 04:11 PM
DeVaney had this on his site that seems to tie in to what Robb mentioned about clearing intercellular detritus:


"Autophagy (self eating or consumption) is a crucial process in the cell. The cell consumes and recycles damaged internal material; this is an energy sparing process and important for scavenging old and damaged material within the cell.


A role for the NAD-dependent deacetylase Sirt1 in the regulation of autophagy. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18296641?ordinalpos=24&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVDocSum)
We demonstrate a role for the NAD-dependent deacetylase Sirt1 in the regulation of autophagy. In particular, transient increased expression of Sirt1 is sufficient to stimulate basal rates of autophagy.

Sirt1 being the so called "longevity" gene being touted by the science community. CR has a positive link to increases in Sirt1, forming the link to why CR increases longevity.

Should be doing a whole post on this in a day or so at the blog...but just stumbled across this study and remembered this post...that and no thread dedicated to longevity should ever have to "die off"....bad advertising....

Steve Rogers
04-21-2008, 07:46 PM
Clarence Bass has another article about recently published research which supports the view that high intensity exercise mitigates the effects of aging.

http://cbass.com/Athletes,age.htm

Steven Low
04-21-2008, 08:25 PM
From what I've been looking at with the neuroendocrine response article I'm writing there's a lot of anti-inflam cytokines as well which should contribute to anti-aging.

Basically, it's tons of stuff working together it seems... just like with everything. :)

Mike ODonnell
04-22-2008, 01:39 PM
Here's a really good article, whole thing can be seen here (http://www.supercentenarian.com/archive/longevity-genes.html)

Couple Highlights
The mammalian version of the yeast SIR2 gene is known as SIRT1 ("SIR2 homolog 1"). It encodes a protein, Sirt1, that has the same enzymatic activity as Sir2 but that also deacetylates a wider variety of proteins both inside the cell nucleus and out in the cellular cytoplasm. Several of these proteins targeted by Sirt1 have been identified and are known to control critical processes, including apoptosis, cell defenses and metabolism. The potential longevity-enhancing role of the SIR2 gene family seems, therefore, to be preserved in mammals. But not surprisingly in larger and more complex organisms, the pathways by which Sirtuins achieve their effect have grown considerably more complicated as well.

Increased Sirt1 in mice and rats, for example, allows some of the animals' cells to survive in the face of stress that would normally trigger their programmed suicide. Sirt1 does this by regulating the activity of several other key cellular proteins, such as p53, FoxO and Ku70, that are involved either in setting a threshold for apoptosis or in prompting cell repair. Sirt1 thus enhances cellular repair mechanisms while buying time for them to work.

Over the course of a lifetime, cell loss from apoptosis may be an important factor in aging, particularly in nonrenewable tissues such as the heart and brain, and slowing cell death may be one way Sirtuins promote health and longevity. A striking example of Sirt1's ability to foster survival in mammalian cells can be seen in the Wallerian mutant strain of mouse. In these mice, a single gene is duplicated, and the mutation renders their neurons highly resistant to stress, which protects them against stroke, chemotherapy-induced toxicity and neurodegenerative diseases.

I also used it on this post (http://projectfit.org/iflifeblog/2008/04/22/the-longevity-gene-sirt1-part-i-cr-fasting-and-aging-diseases/) along with some other Sirt studies. Resveratol is begging to look verrrrry interesting and possiblly something worthwhile.....
Another critical process modified by Sirt1 is inflammation, which is involved in a number of disorders, including cancer, arthritis, asthma, heart disease and neurodegeneration. Recent work by Martin W. Mayo and his colleagues at the University of Virginia has shown that Sirt1 inhibits NF-B, a protein complex that promotes the inflammatory response. The Sirt1-activating compound resveratrol has the same effect. This finding is particularly encouraging, both because the search for molecules that inhibit NF-B is a highly active area of drug development and because another well-known effect of calorie restriction is its ability to suppress excessive inflammation.

Steven Low
04-22-2008, 04:56 PM
Interesting article Mike. One criticism to increase cell lifespan is increased amount of time to accumulate mutations which could result in cell(s) being deregulated and becoming cancerous.

FYI Resversatrol for those of you who don't know is the good stuff in red wine which everyone is saying to drink. -_-

Darryl Shaw
04-23-2008, 06:02 AM
One topic that has not been brought up directly in this thread (though it probably falls loosely under stress reduction) is SEX, as in a healthy and fulfilling sex life (hopefully with someone, not something) and its role in longevity.

A few years ago I was trying hard to build my Chiro practice, there were 3 kids in the house(2 of them in diapers), sleep was a luxury, money was tight and my wife's and my sex life suffered. With certain needs being unfulfilled, I tended to have more late night snacks and engage in more general binge-type behavior. These were hardly my healthiest years. Now that the youngest is 4, the finances are solid etc, we have gone through a second wave of sexual giddiness and we've recently spent a lot of time (post coital) discussing how important sexual fulfillment is in one's life. Physiologically speaking, there's gotta be some good stuff happening. How much can we harm ourselves by not taking full advantage of this natural resource?

I have an old book called The Tao of Health, Sex, and Longevity that hits this topic in depth. The Taoists place sexual activity near the top of their list of priorities for a long and healthy life. Of course, the Taoists believe that while the male should have sex often, he should "preserve essence", or as the author puts it, have "contact without leakage" (LOL). This is to allow your body to redirect the sexual energy elsewhere in the body. I've never read anything that actually supports this theory, but the warm fuzzies I experience do seem to be some type of NER, not unlike a good WO.

Thoughts?

Those early Daoists were actually right that ejaculating too often affects your health because each time you ejaculate you lose about half your RDA of zinc.

Early Daoists had many theories about increasing longevity but the one that I suspect will interest most people here is the practice of bigu or abstinence from grains. There's some debate over what this actually meant because the symbol for grain is also the symbol for food so it could mean eating less carbs or simply eating less food.
My theory for the origin of this practice is that young Daoists would head off into the mountains in search of solitude where they would adopt a fairly sparse diet of roots, fruits, berries, fungi and small game (Daoist aren't required to be vegetarian) which meant they had to spend a great deal of time hiking on rough terrain. When they eventually came down from the mountain many years later they would appear much younger than their years and be far more vigorous and healthy than the peasant farmers who'd been eating a primarily grain based diet and this lead the Daoists to assume that it was their abstinence from grains that had kept them healthy.
So therein lies the Daoist secret of longevity - a nutrient dense calorie restricted low carb diet coupled with plenty of fresh air and exercise.

Finally, no discussion on longevity can be complete without mentioning the Chinese herbalist Lee Ching-yuen who was reputed to have lived to 256 years of age.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Qing_Yuen

http://www.chinahand.com/qigong/a_story_of.htm

Mike ODonnell
04-23-2008, 08:25 AM
Interesting article Mike. One criticism to increase cell lifespan is increased amount of time to accumulate mutations which could result in cell(s) being deregulated and becoming cancerous.

FYI Resversatrol for those of you who don't know is the good stuff in red wine which everyone is saying to drink. -_-

More wine...wooohoooo.

Good observation Steven, I believe there are also links to Sirt1 increasing cell autophagy as well:
These results suggest that the Sirt1 deacetylase is an important in vivo regulator of autophagy and provide a link between sirtuin function and the overall cellular response to limited nutrients.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18296641?ordinalpos=24&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Which would mean (I believe) that a cancerous cell (or damaged) has the ability to break itself down, consume the damaged material and then rebuild with healthy materials.

Which is what Art also talks about here
The process seems to be triggered when the energy content of the cell declines so that the cell literally consumes itself. It goes after the damaged materials first, so there is a strong link between repair of damaged tissues and fasting or low energy state in the cell. So, it you are over-fed you down regulate cellular repair. You want to go hungy episodically to turn on cellular autophagy and repair those damaged tissues.

This makes a lot of sense from an evolutionary perspective. When the energy in the cell declines, the cell eats the damaged tissues for energy and that recycles the damaged tissues to make new material. The result is a healthier cell. It is efficient for the cell to turn to damaged materials first as a source of energy, thus sparing healthy tissues.
http://www.arthurdevany.com/2007/08/cellular_autoph.html

Either way....more wine anyone? :)

R. Alan Hester
07-12-2008, 06:53 PM
It is a long, interesting article, but he addresses needs of the common adult for his longevity and health, not his performance needs for sport. BTW, it was written in 1862.

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/186208/gymnastics

As our artificial training is designed to fit us for the more successful performance of the duties of life, I suggest that the training should be, in character, somewhat assimilated to those duties. If you would train a horse for the carriage, you would not prepare him for this work by driving at a slow pace before a heavy load. If you did, the first fast drive would go hard with him. Just so with a man. If he is to lift hogsheads of sugar, or kegs of nails, as a business, he may be trained by heavy-lifting; but if his business requires the average activity and free motions of human occupations, then, upon the basis of his heavy, slow training, he will find himself in actual life in the condition of the dray-horse who is pushed before the light carriage at a high speed.

Mike ODonnell
07-13-2008, 07:26 AM
It is a long, interesting article, but he addresses needs of the common adult for his longevity and health, not his performance needs for sport. BTW, it was written in 1862.

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/186208/gymnastics

The 1862 ipod?

A small drum, costing perhaps five dollars, which may be used as a bass-drum, with one beating-stick, with which any one may keep time, is, I suppose, the sort of music most classes in gymnas-tics will use at first. And it has advantages. While it is less pleasing than some other instruments, it secures more perfect concert than any other. The violin and piano are excellent, but on some accounts the hand-organ is the best of all.

Feeble and apathetic people, who have little courage to undertake gymnastic training, accomplish wonders under the inspiration of music. I believe three times as much muscle can be coaxed out, with this delightful stimulus, as without it.

He was right...workout+music=intensity

Steven Low
07-13-2008, 08:29 AM
Wow, and I don't workout with any music at all... just silence. Gotta try it sometime o_O

Mike ODonnell
07-13-2008, 10:04 AM
Interesting article about Luigi Cornaro who cured himself of illness and lived happily to 102. http://drbass.com/cornaro.html

state of unbroken health and happiness until the age of 102. When he died, he died in an ideal way. He was in his rocking chair. He closed his eyes, took a nap, and didn't wake up. There was no pain or suffering, ever. His mind was clear as a bell until the very end, no senility, no memory loss. Indeed, one of the things he wrote about in his discourses was that his hearing and vision were perfect He retained all his senses. That's something you don't see today.


The amount of food necessary to sustain life. Since the quantity of food needed to maintain excellent health and spirits is so small, it is rather shocking to realize that all of us, with very few exceptions, overeat and produce an endless array of miseries in our lives in both mental and physical afflictions.

The KEY to health and happiness is inextricably associated with the QUANTITY of food we consume daily.

Each morsel we consume beyond what is absolutely necessary to sustain life, wastes physical and mental energy at a fearful rate. If any single factor were to be considered as the most important for health and happiness, this would be it.

The Two Rules for Maintaining Health and Prolonging Life: These were reduced to two things, quality and quantity.
The first, namely quality, consists in not eating foods or drinking liquids harmful to the stomach. "The second, which is quantity, consists in not eating or drinking more than the stomach can easily digest, which quantity and quality every man should be a perfect judge of by the time he is forty or fifty or sixty." .....
"I felt like singing a song after my simple meals."

sounds like CR and Quality food works....although IF works better cause you don't have to be 115lbs...or at least that's the premise of it...I'll let you know how it all turns out in another 70 years. :)

Gittit Shwartz
07-13-2008, 10:09 AM
Drum + musical bow => move faster and jump higher. Time to take up Capoeira folks :)

R. Alan Hester
07-30-2008, 10:23 AM
(CLEAR!! 300 kjl--Patient showing signs of live after shock)
Restorative fitness approach

What type of programming would provide restorative effects at the same time. That is to say, what would offer the must bang for the buck strength and metcon wise, while not being so counter-productive to movement patterns.

If heavy squats and power cleans offer strength, but require me to do 15 minutes of foam roller training and seek out Chinese secrets for restoration, then am I really operating on a plan that has a health/longevity bias? Furthermore, if running creates (or exacerbates) imbalances, thereby requires pelvic tilt work for 15 minutes everyday, am I on the correct track?

Just thinking.

Dave Maerk
08-01-2008, 07:40 PM
There was a doctor with a radio show back in the US...I forget his name, but IIRC he wrote a book called "Eat, Drink and Be Merry" in which he argued that walking regularly and having an active sex life were all the exercise you'd ever need.

Mike ODonnell
08-01-2008, 08:24 PM
walking regularly and having an active sex life were all the exercise you'd ever need.

So....a treadmill desk while looking at porn....will that count?

http://uk.gizmodo.com/office%20treadmill.jpg

Dave Maerk
08-02-2008, 06:01 PM
So....a treadmill desk while looking at porn....will that count?

http://uk.gizmodo.com/office%20treadmill.jpg

LOL, what would the "high intensity" version of that look like?

Allen Yeh
08-12-2008, 06:15 AM
http://med.stanford.edu/news_releases/2008/august/running.html

Interesting.

Jason Tanner
09-09-2008, 07:04 PM
Although somewhat off topic, a Cambridge professor by the name of Aubrey De Grey is currently working on nanotechnology and the elimination of aging.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&resnum=0&q=aubrey%20de%20grey&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv#hl=en&resnum=0&q=aubrey%20de%20grey&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv

Liam Dougherty Springer
09-10-2008, 03:40 PM
I'd love to see comparitive srudies from different types of activity populations i.e. runners, matial arts, swimmers, Interval Trainers (pretty sure it would be extremely difficult to find very many elderly interval trainers but i could be wrong) Dancers, and weight lifters.

I wonder how many of the runners in these studies also did these activities as well? I guess what I am saying is is this a comparison between active and inactive elderly or active runners and active non runner elderly. It would make a big difference in evealuating whether the act of running itself not just a higher activity level had anything to do with the resistance to age related deterioration.

Darryl Shaw
09-12-2008, 05:31 AM
I'd love to see comparitive studies from different types of activity populations i.e. runners, matial arts, swimmers, Interval Trainers (pretty sure it would be extremely difficult to find very many elderly interval trainers but i could be wrong) Dancers, and weight lifters.

I wonder how many of the runners in these studies also did these activities as well? I guess what I am saying is is this a comparison between active and inactive elderly or active runners and active non runner elderly. It would make a big difference in evealuating whether the act of running itself not just a higher activity level had anything to do with the resistance to age related deterioration.

I suspect that simply being physically active throughout your life gives you an edge when it comes to longevity but there is a correlation between grip strength in middle age and health in old age so some form of resistance training would be sensible of you plan on staying healthy.

Midlife Hand Grip Strength as a Predictor of Old Age Disability. (http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/281/6/558)

It may interest any carb haters out there that the number of Japanese centenarians has reached a new high despite all that rice they eat. :D

Japanese centenarians at record high. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7612363.stm)

Derek Weaver
09-13-2008, 09:12 PM
Darryl,
That's interesting about the Japanese, and good news to me (I'm 1/8 Japanese... not much, but with longevity being prevalent on both sides of my family something is working in my genes to extend lifespan).

Couple of questions though. How many of the centenarians are on Okinawa and what kind of population increase has Japan experienced in the last 40 years that centenarian population has increased?

I think I remember seeing a post by Robb one time noting that the Okinawans eat less rice and soy and have a tuber similar to a sweet potato. Carbs aren't bad, empty ones like rice are though.

Scott Hanson
09-14-2008, 06:24 AM
I'd love to see comparitive srudies from different types of activity populations i.e. runners, matial arts, swimmers, Interval Trainers (pretty sure it would be extremely difficult to find very many elderly interval trainers but i could be wrong) Dancers, and weight lifters.

I wonder how many of the runners in these studies also did these activities as well? I guess what I am saying is is this a comparison between active and inactive elderly or active runners and active non runner elderly. It would make a big difference in evealuating whether the act of running itself not just a higher activity level had anything to do with the resistance to age related deterioration.

This may not be quite what you are looking for, but here is a study of Finnish elite athletes, with a ranking of longevity vs sport group (endurance, team, or power athletes). I didn't notice any data pertaining to how long these athletes continued their activity or what other activity they participated in, although as elite athletes its doubtful they did little if any athletic activity outside their specialties:

http://www.acsm-msse.org/pt/re/msse/abstract.00005768-199302000-00013.htm;jsessionid=LNThp0JfJCHwYYWGqjnhg7v9GFQph swLJdS7HjTp8JvGL32N9HDp!612563345!181195628!8091!-1

The conclusion: endurance athletes had the highest life expectancy.

Liam Dougherty Springer
09-14-2008, 03:16 PM
Thanx Scott, I have seen a study simmilar to this before however it seems that the athletes of endurence sports tend to contnue sports activity in there feild and in general a lot longer than those of the "power" sports. I suppose alot of the spescific training would have to give way to other activities as the body will experience significant were at their training loads in those sports. However for someone like myself or any athletes who do end up training at a lower capasity and in more variouse platforms after their "career" ends I have the feeling that the results on longevity may not be so clean cut. Maybe I am just in denial that a marrothon runner is doing a better job at ensuring a long healthy life than I am.

Darryl Shaw
09-15-2008, 06:34 AM
Darryl,
That's interesting about the Japanese, and good news to me (I'm 1/8 Japanese... not much, but with longevity being prevalent on both sides of my family something is working in my genes to extend lifespan).

Good genes might give you an edge over the rest of us but you shouldn't get too complacent about your diet and lifestyle because it appears that as Okinawans have adopted more of an American diet their life expectancy has dropped and the incidence of heart disease, cancer and diabetes has increased.

Metabolic Syndrome Impairs Longevity in Okinawa, Japan. (http://sciencelinks.jp/j-east/article/200621/000020062106A0740398.php)

Couple of questions though. How many of the centenarians are on Okinawa and what kind of population increase has Japan experienced in the last 40 years that centenarian population has increased?

I'm not sure if there have been any significant changes to the Japanese diet or lifestyle over the past 40 years that might have lead to the increased number of centenarians today. Perhaps improved medical care or the increased awareness of the link between salt and stomach cancer would explain some of the increase but todays centenarians would have been 60 back in 1968 so I suspect that if they were going to develop diabetes, cancer or heart disease they would have done so years ago. I can't find a detailed breakdown of the statistics relating to the number of centenarians in Japan vs Okinawa but I suspect that the high number of Okinawan centenarians might skew the statistics re. longevity somewhat in Japans favour.

I think I remember seeing a post by Robb one time noting that the Okinawans eat less rice and soy and have a tuber similar to a sweet potato. Carbs aren't bad, empty ones like rice are though.

It is true that sweet potatoes (imo) used to be the Okinawans traditional staple carbohydrate and rice is a fairly recent addition to their diet but their overall diet is quite similar to that of mainland Japan in most other respects. They do eat a lot less salt than in mainland Japan though so they would have a lower incidence of stomach cancer and strokes but the main difference between Okinawa and mainland Japan is calorie intake; amongst those eating traditional diets the Japanese eat 20% fewer calories than Americans and Okinawans eat 10 - 20% fewer calories than in mainland Japan.

www.okicent.org

Derek Weaver
09-15-2008, 09:01 AM
Cool stuff Darryl.

Just for the record, I am anything but complacent about my food intake. Except when I'm trying to pack on weight I'm nearly monkish. Just to clear the air on that one.

Pretty interesting on the salt intake, hadn't really put much thought into that in the past.

Looks like another score for caloric restriction in the relationship between the Okinawans and mainlanders.

Jared Buffie
09-15-2008, 10:52 AM
FWIW, I read a Time article about centernarians in the summer of 2003 (I believe), and they made the point that there are 70,000 centernarians in America and it is the fastest growing demographic. If you can find it anywhere, it's a really interesting read.

The best quote from there was (paraphrasing):
"Most people think 'the older you get, the sicker you get'. But for centernarians, it's 'the older you get, the healthier you've been'".

Also, I've read the stats on the Okinawins and they have the same "high risk" and "low risk" genes that Americans have.

Doesn't add much to the conversation (I rarely do...)

Darryl Shaw
09-16-2008, 05:34 AM
Jared, I found the article you mentioned - interesting read.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,994967-1,00.html

Thomas Bailly
09-28-2008, 05:37 PM
I think it's the lower body weight of marathon runners that gives them a longer life than powerlifters. Less wear on the organs.

George Mounce
09-28-2008, 05:54 PM
I think it's the lower body weight of marathon runners that gives them a longer life than powerlifters. Less wear on the organs.

Could you explain the "wear on organs" thought more, I'm interested in what you are talking about, but I'm confused on exactly what you are getting at. :confused: Thanks!

Thomas Bailly
09-28-2008, 08:03 PM
I wish I could remember the source of what I'd read, it was pre internet( at least for me)
but was basically a paper that correlated body weight and longevity, if my non ginkoed memory serves me right the idea was that at rest a heavier person would put more demands on his heart,liver thyroid,etc than a lighter weight person.
One can assume that a 300 pound guy does not have a heart/liver/lungs twice the size of someone who weighs 150lb, therefore his internal organs do more work at rest. More work 24hrs a day= lower life span.
Again this was what I recall from something I read 10 years ago, I'm sorry I can't give any source or checking, but it would be interesting to look at longevity from a BW perspective of "fit "individuals.(disregard obesity and super thin extremes)

I wonder, how heavy are Okinawains?

any of you have any science on this topic?

Mike ODonnell
09-29-2008, 08:43 AM
I wish I could remember the source of what I'd read, it was pre internet( at least for me)
but was basically a paper that correlated body weight and longevity, if my non ginkoed memory serves me right the idea was that at rest a heavier person would put more demands on his heart,liver thyroid,etc than a lighter weight person.
One can assume that a 300 pound guy does not have a heart/liver/lungs twice the size of someone who weighs 150lb, therefore his internal organs do more work at rest. More work 24hrs a day= lower life span.
Again this was what I recall from something I read 10 years ago, I'm sorry I can't give any source or checking, but it would be interesting to look at longevity from a BW perspective of "fit "individuals.(disregard obesity and super thin extremes)

I wonder, how heavy are Okinawains?

any of you have any science on this topic?

Sounds like going back to CR studies...the less you eat the longer you live. It's probably the case there, as larger people may eat more. (although fat can also put other pressure on the body like increased inflammation)....but in general just because a person is larger doesn't mean they put more stress on the organs just sitting around, as fat is just storage not doing much and no metabolic demands...it most likely comes down to what larger people eat. If a 300lb man eats meat and veggies...he is going to live longer than a 300lb man eating processed foods and sugars....fasting insulin is probably the best marker for long term health.

Garrett Smith
09-29-2008, 09:54 AM
Longevity, mortality and body weight (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6X1H-4619DHV-1&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=a9dc363d6484e4c2133a272aa9709c6d)
The purpose of this study was to analyze the relation of total body weight to longevity and mortality. The MEDLINE database was searched for data that allow analysis of the relationship between absolute body weight and longevity or mortality. Additional data were used involving US veterans and baseball players. Trend lines of age at death versus body weight are presented. Findings show absolute body size is negatively related to longevity and life expectancy and positively to mortality. Trend lines show an average age at death versus weight slope of −0.4 years/kg. We also found that gender differences in longevity may be due to differences in body size. Animal research is consistent with the findings presented. Biological mechanisms are also presented to explain why increased body mass may reduce longevity. Life expectancy has increased dramatically through improved public health measures and medical care and reduced malnutrition. However, overnourishment and increased body size have promoted an epidemic of chronic disease and reduced our potential longevity. In addition, both excess lean body mass and fat mass may promote chronic disease.
In peaceful times, if one wants to live longer, maintaining the lowest body mass that is functional is conducive to longevity.

Robert Allison
09-29-2008, 11:05 AM
I found this part interesting...

In addition, both excess lean body mass and fat mass may promote chronic disease.

The correlation between fat mass and chronic disease is no surprise, but I would be curious to hear what is the mechanism that causes excess lean body mass to be a factor in the development of disease. Is it just the caloric overload often necessary to maintain higher body weight?

Garrett, do you happen to have the whole study?

Craig Loizides
09-29-2008, 11:36 AM
Leanness trumps calories?
http://www.cbass.com/LeannessCancer.htm


In addition, both excess lean body mass and fat mass may promote chronic disease.


I found this interesting too. I remember reading an article once that said lean body mass is one of the best predictors of longevity. I think it said that whether looking at age or disease, death occurs when lean mass drops to about 60% of normal.

Garrett Smith
09-29-2008, 11:40 AM
Robert,
I don't have the whole thing, I could see about getting it though.

The higher LBM, to me, simply means that more calories would have to be consumed for even minimum maintenance, which means more oxidation and metabolic byproducts for the organs to deal with.

Any fat or muscle that is not directly related to "survival" (whatever that means for the individual at the time, be it for warmth or strength or speed or whatever) will be detrimental to longevity in the long term. It makes sense to me.

As we live so much longer than our prime fertile years these days, the very muscle that may help us in mating (appearance or the ability to "out-compete") has a cost on the amount of years we live.

Garrett Smith
09-29-2008, 11:49 AM
Another one:

Body composition, body fat distribution, and resting metabolic rate in healthy centenarians. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7572703?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=2&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed)(full text of article available for download, see right side of screen)

Our study investigated body composition and body fat distribution in healthy centenarians. Body composition, body fat distribution, and resting metabolic rate (RMR) were studied in 40 adult subjects aged < 50 y, 35 aged subjects > 75 y, and 15 healthy centenarians aged > 100 y. Body composition was determined by bioimpedance analysis, body fat distribution was calculated as waist-hip ratio (WHR), and RMR was calculated by using the Arciero-Poehlman formula. Healthy centenarians had a cognitive impairment and degree of disability greater than aged subjects. Despite such differences, fat-free mass (FFM) and RMR were not different in centenarians compared with aged subjects but were lower than in adult subjects. In contrast, healthy centenarians had a WHR lower than that of aged subjects but not different from that of the adult subjects. After the level of physical activity and degree of disability were adjusted for, FFM (44 +/- 2.7 and 40 +/- 1.1 kg; P < 0.05) and RMR (6757 +/- 761 and 5891 +/- 723 kJ/24 h; P < 0.05) were significantly higher in healthy centenarians than in aged subjects, respectively. Independent of age, sex, body weight, degree of disability, level of physical activity, and fasting plasma triiodothyronine, there was a strong correlation between RMR and FFM (r = 0.50, P < 0.05) in healthy centenarians. In conclusion, healthy centenarians had a lower FFM and higher body fat content than aged subjects. Level of physical activity and degree of disability seem to be the major determinants for explaining such differences.
Interesting...even with the poor body comp measurement methods...

Darryl Shaw
09-30-2008, 05:30 AM
I wonder, how heavy are Okinawains?

any of you have any science on this topic?

I couldn't find any info on the average weight of an Okinawan but those that took part in the Okinawa Centenarian Study had average BMI's of 18 - 22 and were described as being lean fit and healthy.

www.okicent.org

Steve Rogers
09-30-2008, 07:40 PM
Anecdotal information. When I was on Okinawa (1989-1991) I didn't see any really fat locals, but this may be changing. I also didn't see any really skinny ones. 5' 6" and 150 # seemed typical for a a male. They did seem to be more active, on average, than Americans.

Craig Loizides
10-01-2008, 07:46 AM
I found these 3 studies relating BMI, body fat, and fat free mass to mortality.

http://www.nature.com/oby/journal/v12/n7/full/oby2004131a.html
http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v24/n1/full/0801082a.html
http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v26/n3/full/0801925a.html

They show that BMI vs mortality is a U-shaped curve. Mortality increases with increasing body fat and decreases increasing fat-free mass.

Two of the studies showed mortality decreases continuously with increasing fat free mass. One showed a reverse J-curve where mortality decreased to a point and then started to increase or level off. There's probably a point where you have too much fat-free mass but it's not something most people have to ever worry about.

Garrett Smith
10-01-2008, 11:42 AM
Craig,
Interesting studies. As with anything, I'm sure that FFM has a point of diminishing returns in terms of longevity at both ends of the spectrum.

One more on this general topic of FM and FFM, before I go on a slight tangent, this one on somatotype:

Somatotype and longevity of former university athletes and nonathletes. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2091157?ordinalpos=5&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum)
A longitudinal study was conducted on 398 athletes and 369 nonathletes who were born before 1920 and attended Michigan State University. The subjects were compared to determine if intercollegiate athletic competition accounts for significant variation in longevity when considered with somatotype. Because some of the subjects were still alive at the time of the study, the BMDP Statistical Software was used to do a survival analysis with covariates. Preliminary comparisons considered the differences in somatotype between athletes and nonathletes. Two sample t-tests indicated that athletes were more mesomorphic and less ectomorphic (p less than .05) than nonathletes. When comparing the relationship between somatotype and longevity, the pooled data of athletes and nonathletes indicated that endomorphs were shorter lived than the other three comparison groups. When only the athletes were considered, similar results were found. However, the nonathlete group exhibited differences only between the mesomorphic and endomorphic groups. The endomorphs were shorter lived. Longevity was examined by using the Cox proportional hazards regression method with somatotype and athlete/nonathlete status as covariates. Somatotype, by itself, was found to be significantly related to longevity, (p less than .001). Athletic status was not significantly related to longevity, either by itself or when entered into the model with somatotype.

Searching through Pubmed, I came across the precocity-longevity hypothesis, which I found interesting. Basically, testing an observation that those who achieve highly earlier in life tend to pass on earlier as well. Late achievers can now have something to feel good about (me being one of them!):

Younger achievement age predicts shorter life for governors: testing the precocity-longevity hypothesis with artifact controls. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15272944?ordinalpos=3&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum)
McCann's precocity-longevity hypothesis suggests that the prerequisites, concomitants, and consequences of early peaks in career achievement may foster the conditions for premature death. In the present test of the precocity-longevity hypothesis, it was predicted that state governors elected at younger ages live shorter lives. Two competing explanatory frameworks, the life expectancy artifact and the selection bias artifact, also were tested. In a sample of 1,672 male governors, the precocity-longevity prediction was supported, and it was demonstrated with correlation, regression, and subsample construction strategies that the life expectancy and selection bias artifacts were not sufficient to account or the significant positive correlation between election age and death age. The positive correlation also was maintained when year of birth, years of service, span of service, and state of election were statistically controlled.
Achievement age-death age correlations alone cannot provide unequivocal support for the precocity-longevity hypothesis. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15379007?ordinalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum)
This study is a further exploration (see S. J. H. McCann, 2001) of the capacity of the selection bias and life expectancy artifacts to produce correlations between peak achievement ages and death ages that could be mistakenly construed as support for the precocity-longevity hypothesis that those who reach career pinnacles earlier tend to have shorter lives. For 1,672 governors, 10 fake achievement age variables and 10 fake death age variables were randomly generated. Fake achievement age variables were correlated with real death age; fake death age variables were correlated with real achievement age. However, the real age correlations were much larger than the fake age correlations, and when the 2 artifacts were controlled through a subsample strategy, only real age correlations were significant. Overall, the results support the precocity-longevity hypothesis.
Precocity predicts shorter life for major league baseball players: confirmation of McCann's precocity-longevity hypothesis. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17924518?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum)
We tested McCann's precocity-longevity hypothesis, which proposes that early career achievement is related to premature death, for Major League baseball players (N = 3,760). Age at debut was the definition for precocity. We controlled for possible artifacts of life expectancy selection, the "healthy worker" effect, player position, and body-mass index. Statistically significant Pearson correlations occurred between precocity and longevity, and remained significant when adjusted for artifacts. In a hierarchical multiple regression, every year a baseball player debuted before the average age of 23.6 years was associated with life span being shortened by 0.24 years. The results support the hypothesis that earlier achievement is associated with earlier death.

Kevin Perry
10-01-2008, 01:35 PM
Longevity, mortality and body weight (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6X1H-4619DHV-1&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=a9dc363d6484e4c2133a272aa9709c6d)

In peaceful times, if one wants to live longer, maintaining the lowest body mass that is functional is conducive to longevity.

Very interesting read. Makes me think about a biological set point for weight. Im certain nature has an intended set point for all body types and any manipulation of that throws the spectrum off.

Garrett Smith
10-01-2008, 02:58 PM
I think there is a basic theme that runs through this.

The more "internal" resources one uses earlier in life, whether it is for achievement or to develop muscle mass over the normal setpoint (ie. eating more than one would want to normally to gain mass), can result in an enhanced ability/potential for reproduction, but may be detrimental to longevity, and vice versa.

Is life a sprint or a marathon to the person?

Mike ODonnell
10-01-2008, 08:03 PM
Is life a sprint or a marathon to the person?

I like to think of it as a lazy river......

Edward Friedman
11-15-2008, 11:53 AM
Q: Anyone familiar with studies on aging and heavy weight training ? What are the general findings ?

I know the "current conventional wisdom" is that weight training is excellent for the aging population, but just how valid is that position. What is the downside, if any ?

Background: Health / Longevity is my primary motivation for training, and I would add a third after another "/" ie; vitality.

Sometimes I look at Transformetrics.com. It is a BW (exclusive)oriented site. There is much talk there of "busted up weight lifters syndrome" ie; the legion of iron veterans with myriad joint pain/dysfunction issues.

I am 48. In younger life I trained at martial arts, and did some long distance jogging, up to marathon distance. ( BTW, "most folks" think LSD is great. Yet, there seem to be a few deaths in every marathon. I buy DeVaney's reasons marathons are bad, etc.)

In recent years, I've been more attracted to the "brief,frequent,intense" model w/ KBs., C2, HeavyBag, Slideboard, etc.

Feeling I'd like to be stronger, I am about to launce into a few months of 5x5 BB training. I was directed to Transformetrics and that "busted up weight lifter's syndrome" put a some healthy "fear of the Lord" into me. (ie; Proceed with caution!) At first glance, it seemed the support there was anecdotal, (talk of the toll weight takes on beasts of burden and historically, slaves during the pre-Civil War era, etc.) I am not dismissing anecdotal evidence, ( when it my anecdote, it is the most compelling :) ) but I'd like to "weigh" (sorry,) that against more formal studies. I thought I'd like to hear what folks hear have to say.

TIA,

Eddie

Steve Rogers
11-15-2008, 12:47 PM
This guy http://hes.cahs.colostate.edu/FacultyStaff/Christopher.Bell/ has done a lot of work on exercise and aging. He spoke at a health seminar that my company sponsors and he believes that strength training, specifically weight training, is a must for healthy ageing. Loss of muscle mass and strength is what puts most people into nursing homes.

I don't believe there is a "busted up weight lifters syndrome", though there are certainly busted up weight lifters. Lifting heavy incurs some risk of injury, and as we get older we tend to get stiffer and may develop arthritis or other issues which increase risk of injury. If you use reasonable care, there is no reason why you shouldn't do barbell training. Use good form and get strong.

Garrett Smith
11-16-2008, 06:55 AM
Any training modality can be done to excess, whether it is in reps (cals & BW stuff) or weight.

Combine excessive training with musculoskeletal misalignments/imbalances, both are a recipe for problems.

In my opinion, it is the practice of trying/needing to constantly get stronger that most of the problems come from.

With cals/BW exercises, it would seem a more common practice for people to simply achieve a certain number of reps and be OK with staying at that level, ie. 50 push-ups. Another limiting factor with high-rep BW stuff becomes a lack of workout time to continually add more & more reps.

With weight training, you hardly ever see anyone who gets to a certain weight lifted and says, "that's fine, I'll stay at that, I don't need to add weight to the bar, I'll stay at this weight for the rest of my life if possible". Adding weight to the bar is normal, if not expected.

I think it is mostly a mentality difference. It's all about how one uses the tool.

Mike ODonnell
11-16-2008, 09:02 AM
Eventually there comes a set point at which your weight and strength will stay unless you take above average steps to correct. Whether it is those steps beyond that create more damage than good is a guesstimate.

What is shown is that eating less will help you live longer....so if your training still reflects eating less then you probably get the benefits...it's when your training requires more and more calories to sustain performance, recovery or mass that you may start depleting your own internal resources as you age.

Gary Ohm
12-25-2008, 07:12 AM
I'll take this opportunity to resurrect this thread on Christmas day AND make my first post. This is a terrific thread and very near to my heart. I am a 40 year old father and husband. I work shifts and many weekends. I played tennis for a division II college nearly 20 years ago. My competitive days are over. Right now I train specifically to extend and enhance my life and quality thereof. Any competition is strictly with myself.
I have really enjoyed reading this thread. I would love to see more links to the specific studies cited. What I have found is that moderation is the key to most things. My workouts have gotten shorter (generally 45 minutes or less) and more intense. I used to be a cyclist (after tennis) and then I tried my hand at triathlon. Now the thought of LSD makes my nauseas. I do thousands of burpees (not in one day of course), kettlebell work, sledge hammer swings, weighted vest runs and lots of deadlifts. Boy I love deadlifts...
I really need to learn more about diet. I am intrigued with the IF program and would like to dabble in paleo and zone type things as well. But as some of you with families may know it can be hard to radically change your diet plan when it effects others in the family.
I think that intense sensible resistance training is the key to long term health. I am leaning towards low rep stuff for the most part (except for burpees and sledgehammer swings and things like that). For example I am learning single leg squats, and working on one arm pushups and pullups. In my mind low reps are the key to developing max strength without the risk of connective tissue/joint problems. I am also not in the least concerned with "getting big". My days of impressing anyone are long gone. I would actually like to get about 20 pounds smaller while gaining strength.
Well, that's about it. Thanks for letting me play...:D

Mike Prevost
12-25-2008, 05:53 PM
I'll take this opportunity to resurrect this thread on Christmas day AND make my first post. This is a terrific thread and very near to my heart. I am a 40 year old father and husband. I work shifts and many weekends. I played tennis for a division II college nearly 20 years ago. My competitive days are over. Right now I train specifically to extend and enhance my life and quality thereof. Any competition is strictly with myself.
I have really enjoyed reading this thread. I would love to see more links to the specific studies cited. What I have found is that moderation is the key to most things. My workouts have gotten shorter (generally 45 minutes or less) and more intense. I used to be a cyclist (after tennis) and then I tried my hand at triathlon. Now the thought of LSD makes my nauseas. I do thousands of burpees (not in one day of course), kettlebell work, sledge hammer swings, weighted vest runs and lots of deadlifts. Boy I love deadlifts...
I really need to learn more about diet. I am intrigued with the IF program and would like to dabble in paleo and zone type things as well. But as some of you with families may know it can be hard to radically change your diet plan when it effects others in the family.
I think that intense sensible resistance training is the key to long term health. I am leaning towards low rep stuff for the most part (except for burpees and sledgehammer swings and things like that). For example I am learning single leg squats, and working on one arm pushups and pullups. In my mind low reps are the key to developing max strength without the risk of connective tissue/joint problems. I am also not in the least concerned with "getting big". My days of impressing anyone are long gone. I would actually like to get about 20 pounds smaller while gaining strength.
Well, that's about it. Thanks for letting me play...:D

Gary

I find myself in the same situation as you. I am 40 and am a recent reformed endurance junkie. I threw in the towel on Ironman training this summer. My body was just not feeling good. Lots of aches and pains, lots of fatigue. It just did not feel healthy any more. Plus I was really missing the strength training. I am trying most of the things you are as well. Love my new C2 rower. I am going a bit different direction though with higher reps instead. Had to make that adjustment on deadlifts (which I love also) due to back pain and it is working out very well. Trying the same approach with push ups and kettlebells. Just trying to rehab some old injuries and put my body back together.

Mike

Mike ODonnell
12-26-2008, 08:48 AM
this was and continues to be my favorite thread....glad someone has got it going again....not sure if I posted these before but some interesting food for thought:

Interesting thought when it comes to the metabolism....faster is not better...from a longevity aspect
Longer-lived Rodents Have Lower Levels Of Thyroid Hormone

The thyroid may play an important role in longevity, with longer-lived rodents showing significantly lower levels of a thyroid hormone that speeds metabolism, a new study has found. The study further strengthens the theory that the faster an animal's metabolism, the shorter its life, and vice versa, said Mario Pinto, the study's lead author. The thyroid releases hormones that regulate metabolic rate.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/10/061010022316.htm

and it's better to have strength than endurance fibers as you age
To assess the age-related loss of muscle mass and to determine the mechanisms behind this aging atrophy, the muscle structure and fiber type composition have been estimated, using invasive and noninvasive techniques. Limb muscles from older men and women are 25-35% smaller and have significantly more fat and connective tissue than limb muscles from younger individuals. Comparisons of muscle biopsies from younger and older individuals reveal that type 2 (fast-twitch) fibers are smaller in the old, while the size of type 1 (slow-twitch) fibers is much less affected. Studies of whole muscle cross sections also show a significantly smaller number of muscle fibers, a significantly lower relative type 2 fiber area, and a significant increase in fiber type grouping with increasing age. These results indicate a gradual decrease in size/volume with advancing age, accompanied by a replacement by fat and connective tissue. This aging atrophy seems to be due to a reduction in both number and size of muscle fibers, mainly of type 2, and is to some extent caused by a slowly progressive neurogenic process.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7493202

Garrett Smith
12-26-2008, 09:41 AM
"Fast"(-er than it should be) metabolism = early death. Sad but true.

Exactly why stimulants "age" people so fast.

Darryl Shaw
01-22-2009, 05:46 AM
This article on calorie restriction makes some interesting points about various dietary strategies for achieving longevity.

http://spot.colorado.edu/~gravesp/DietHealthandLongevity.html

Gary Ohm
01-24-2009, 08:53 AM
Thanks for the link Darryl. I had looked towards CR a while ago. I am very intrigued by it. But then I read an article by a CR devotee. He lost 25% of is bodyweight and is feeling "great". However, he said he used to surf 19 to 20 hours a week, and now he can only go 4 hours a week due to energy constraints from the lack of food. Well forget that!!! I don't surf 20 hours a week or anything like that, but I am an active guy and I like to do stuff. I will curb my diet and eat more cleanly and keep exercising and work on flexibility, but I just don't think that CR is in my future.

Garrett Smith
01-24-2009, 09:11 AM
From the CR article:
"To me the whole calorie restriction thing is like the idea that you shouldn't drive your car, because people sometimes have accidents and crash into each other. So you can make your car live longer by not driving it, but where's the fun in that?" But, as someone responded on that same newsgroup, "The fun is that someday - perhaps within 30-50 years - science will be able to "roll back the aging clock" and make us all young again. And keep us that way. So we try to make our cars last until that day comes. Because then we can drive them forever."
Personally, I'd like to have some fun now (ie. exercise, "driving the car") and try to make life last longer while doing IF (which IMO, doesn't really interfere with a relatively "normal" lifestyle).

To me, while CR may have its benefits, it also sounds like a great way for certain people to justify their anorexia.

That being said, I did think that was a well thought article, even though hardly any thought/space was dedicated to fasting (and IF wasn't even mentioned). The author may not feel qualified to speak on that topic, which I understand.

Mike ODonnell
01-24-2009, 11:50 AM
Thanks for the link Darryl. I had looked towards CR a while ago. I am very intrigued by it. But then I read an article by a CR devotee. He lost 25% of is bodyweight and is feeling "great". However, he said he used to surf 19 to 20 hours a week, and now he can only go 4 hours a week due to energy constraints from the lack of food. Well forget that!!! I don't surf 20 hours a week or anything like that, but I am an active guy and I like to do stuff. I will curb my diet and eat more cleanly and keep exercising and work on flexibility, but I just don't think that CR is in my future.

I agree....what's the point of living 80 years if you sit around and don't experience life.....not that the James Dean hard and fast die young lifestyle is better. Moral of the story, eat less and you can live longer....but IF has better promise since it can have most all the benefits of CR + you don't lose muscle or energy. But then again....this is all speculation as they have yet to run a 100yr human trial on CR vs IF.

Mike ODonnell
01-24-2009, 01:10 PM
another interesting quote

identical twins who were separated at birth and reared apart. If genes were most important, you would expect the twins to die at about the same age. In fact, they don't, and the average difference convinced the scientists that only about 20% to 30% of how long we live is genetically determined. The dominant factor is lifestyle.


you can't change your genes, but you can change what you eat and how much you exercise. "The lesson is pretty clear from my point of view in terms of what the average person should be doing," says Perls. "I strongly believe that with some changes in health-related behavior, each of us can earn the right to have at least 25 years beyond the age of 60--years of healthy life at good function. The disappointing news is that it requires work and willpower."
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,994967-2,00.html

and the real take home messages
the traditional way of life seems tailor-made for living forever--one day at a time.

There's a poetry of common sense in their scheme for immortality. Eat sensibly. Keep walking. Keep knitting. If you can't keep friends, make new ones. Plan so much invigorating work that there's just no time to die. And no regret when you do.

Kevin Perry
01-24-2009, 02:00 PM
The bottom part is so true

Craig Loizides
01-25-2009, 10:27 PM
I'm not an expert on CR, but it seems like most studies start by letting a rat in captivity eat as much rat chow as it wants (what's paleo for a rat anyway?). Then they decrease the amount of calories and the animals live longer. Well, I have no doubt that the average person working at a desk and eating 3500 calories of fast food everyday would live longer if they significantly reduced calories. Is it necessarily true for a lean individual eating 2000 paleo calories a day as well? It seems more like evidence that overeating on low nutrient foods is bad for you than reducing calories is good for you. Ad libitum eating is going to be highly dependent on the types of foods you're eating. I thought it was funny that the CR society is recommending basically a zone / paleo diet with 1800-2200 calories.

It seems like body fat is bad, lean mass is good (to an extent), and less calories is good (to an extent). So maybe it makes sense to try to maximize lean mass to calories consumed. Any thoughts?

Craig Loizides
01-25-2009, 10:51 PM
Clarence Bass has written a lot of articles on aging, diet, and exercise.
http://www.cbass.com/index.html

The comment in the CR article about exercise not helping CR rats made me think of a couple articles.

Weight training reverses aging in skeletal muscle.
http://www.cbass.com/Mitochondria.htm


Subjects who spent more than 3 hours each week in vigorous physical activity (such as running, cycling, and lifting weights) had longer telomeres than subjects 10 years younger, who exercised less than 16 minutes a week.

The researchers suggest that exercise may inoculate the body against oxidative stress and “up-regulate anti-inflammatory processes,”
http://www.cbass.com/Strengthtrainingand%20telomeres.htm

They weren't studying CR practitioners, but it would be interesting to see a study of CR rats on some sort of sprint intervals routine.

Darryl Shaw
01-26-2009, 05:46 AM
I'm not an expert on CR, but it seems like most studies start by letting a rat in captivity eat as much rat chow as it wants (what's paleo for a rat anyway?). Then they decrease the amount of calories and the animals live longer. Well, I have no doubt that the average person working at a desk and eating 3500 calories of fast food everyday would live longer if they significantly reduced calories. Is it necessarily true for a lean individual eating 2000 paleo calories a day as well? It seems more like evidence that overeating on low nutrient foods is bad for you than reducing calories is good for you. Ad libitum eating is going to be highly dependent on the types of foods you're eating. I thought it was funny that the CR society is recommending basically a zone / paleo diet with 1800-2200 calories.

It seems like body fat is bad, lean mass is good (to an extent), and less calories is good (to an extent). So maybe it makes sense to try to maximize lean mass to calories consumed. Any thoughts?

I think you're probably right about it being a good idea to maximize lean mass to calories consumed if longevity is your goal because if the Okinawans are anything to go by the secret to their longevity seems to be eating a nutrient dense plant based, but not vegetarian, diet that provides just enough calories to get them through their days work farming, fishing or whatever. That way they start out lean from an early age and stay that way throughout their lives without any major fluctuations in weight post puberty. I also suspect that unlike the average scrawny anorexic CR enthusiast the Okinawans must have enough physical activity built into their daily lives to enable them to maintain their lean body mass throughout most of their lives.

Darryl Shaw
03-18-2009, 06:46 AM
Calorie Restriction Increases Muscle Mitochondrial Biogenesis in Healthy Humans

Editors' Summary

Background.
Life expectancy (the average life span) greatly increased during the 20th century in most countries, largely due to improved hygiene, nutrition, and health care. One possible approach to further increase human life span is “caloric restriction.” A calorie-restricted diet provides all the nutrients necessary for a healthy life but minimizes the energy (calories) supplied in the diet. This type of diet increases the life span of mice and delays the onset of age-related chronic diseases such as heart disease and stroke. There are also hints that people who eat a calorie-restricted diet might live longer than those who overeat. People living in Okinawa, Japan, have a lower energy intake than the rest of the Japanese population and an extremely long life span. In addition, calorie-restricted diets beneficially affect several biomarkers of aging, including decreased insulin sensitivity (a precursor to diabetes). But how might caloric restriction slow aging? A major factor in the age-related decline of bodily functions is the accumulation of “oxidative damage” in the body's proteins, fats, and DNA. Oxidants—in particular, chemicals called “free radicals”—are produced when food is converted to energy by cellular structures called mitochondria. One theory for how caloric restriction slows aging is that it lowers free-radical production by inducing the formation of efficient mitochondria.

Why Was This Study Done?
Despite hints that caloric restriction might have similar effects in people as in rodents, there have been few well-controlled studies on the effect of good quality calorie-reduced diets in healthy people. It is also unknown whether an energy deficit produced by increasing physical activity while eating the same amount of food has the same effects as caloric restriction. Finally, it is unclear how caloric restriction alters mitochondrial function. The Comprehensive Assessment of Long-term Effects of Reducing Intake of Energy (CALERIE) organization is investigating the effect of caloric restriction interventions on physiology, body composition, and risk factors for age-related diseases. In this study, the researchers have tested the hypothesis that short-term caloric deficit (with or without exercise) increases the efficiency of mitochondria in human muscle.

What Did the Researchers Do and Find?
The researchers enrolled 36 healthy overweight but non-obese young people into their study. One-third of them received 100% of their energy requirements in their diet; the caloric restriction (CR) group had their calorie intake reduced by 25%; and the caloric restriction plus exercise (CREX) group had their calorie intake reduced by 12.5% and their energy expenditure increased by 12.5%. The researchers found that a 25% caloric deficit for six months, achieved by diet alone or by diet plus exercise, decreased 24-hour whole body energy expenditure (i.e., overall calories burned for body function), which suggests improved mitochondrial function. Their analysis of genes involved in mitochondria formation indicated that CR and CREX both increased the number of mitochondria in skeletal muscle. Both interventions also reduced the amount of DNA damage—a marker of oxidative stress—in the participants' muscles.

What Do These Findings Mean?
These results indicate that a short-term caloric deficit, whether achieved by diet or by diet plus exercise, induces the formation of “efficient mitochondria” in people just as in rodents. The induction of these efficient mitochondria in turn reduces oxidative damage in skeletal muscles. Consequently, this adaptive response to caloric restriction might have the potential to slow aging and increase longevity in humans as in other animals. However, this six-month study obviously provides no direct evidence for this, and, by analogy with studies in rodents, an increase in longevity might require lifelong caloric restriction. The results here suggest that even short-term caloric restriction can produce beneficial physiological changes, but more research is necessary before it becomes clear whether caloric restriction should be recommended to healthy individuals.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1808482

Mike ODonnell
03-18-2009, 02:31 PM
I think that can also be tied to CR and increased autophagy which is responsible for cleaning up and recycling/repairing dysfunction mitochondria....leading to more good mitochondria.

Nice find.

Gaspard Winckler
04-03-2009, 12:44 PM
I've been looking into this a little in terms of balancing endurance vs. strength focused exercise as you get older.

Just as the 'best' diet is not the one that has the right results under laboratory conditions, but the one you can stick to, I think the best exercise approach also depends on the practical possibilities of continuing it over the long term.

This meta-study (http://ajl.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/1/3/220) shows that exercise in general reduces inflammatory factors. In runners in general (http://books.google.com/books?id=t8TquWtLUoEC&pg=PA51&lpg=PA51&dq=crp+runners&source=bl&ots=mJlMOrk3RD&sig=QKfdwnQ1WY6HVfNWyaD_EjIzwt0&hl=en&ei=6V7WSe-VOKa7jAfC-_z3Dg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7#PPA53,M1) And even in ultra-marathon runners (http://atvb.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/23/9/1640).

But risking permanent damage or reduction in mobility because you have overdone something which is supposed to be healthy makes no sense if you end up in a worse state than if you had never exercised.

Both sets of information lead me to conclude that *performance* does not have to be any higher than that in Crossfit Seattle's skill level II (http://www.crossfitseattle.com/athletic_skill.html), as long as you do something frequently.

And I suspect that psycho-sociologically it is easier to carry on running as you get older than lifting or gymnastics, because running culture is pretty forgiving as far as performance is concerned, the social aspects matter more, and so on.

It also occurred to me that there are a lot of dancers who have long lifespans and with high activity late in life: Martha Graham (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_Graham), Merce Cunningham (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merce_Cunningham), and Maya Plisetskaya (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_Plisetskaya). And let's not forget yoga guru BKS Iyengar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._K._S._Iyengar) .And all those octogenarians practising tai-chi at dawn in the parks of China. No weights, no running, just gymnastic style strength and flexibility, and probably a fair amount of calorie restriction, but not so much as to reduce activity levels.

Gary Ohm
04-04-2009, 08:00 AM
I am becoming more and more a fan of bodyweight exercising. It just seems more "reasonable" in terms of what the body is going to be able to handle as I get into my 50's, 60's, 80's and beyond. Although I do love my deadlifts. I can see myself eventually evolving to a point where I do deadlifts and kettlebells as my only weighted exercises and then adding bodyweight stuff and short sprints. From what I have read, anything extreme is bad. In my mind, extreme is running anything over a mile straight (not intervals) three times a week, or putting more than 400 pounds on your shoulders.
I can illustrate the functionality of what I do. Just yesterday I started building a welding table. It will be an outdoors table so it will have to be picked up and scooted around the area rather than rolled. It ended up right about #400. I can still move it. I don't have to get my shoulders under it and squat, but it sure feels alot like a deadlift...
I may be pretty hosed up in my thought process compared to many of you all, but this is where my mind is at the moment. I have been doing IF as many days a week as I can and it REALLY has made a difference for me as well.

Troy Archie
04-04-2009, 09:04 AM
I think we just need to look at Jack LaLanne. He can be our 95 y/o guinea pig when it comes to this topic. I'd be really interested in what his programs have looked like over the years as he's aged and what it looks like right now.

Garrett Smith
04-04-2009, 05:05 PM
I wouldn't look necessarily to LaLanne, who has given up the gymnastic/BW/calisthenic exercises that made him a star...he's now gone to a machine-based, very BBing style workout.

I'd look to the generalities of those living in the Blue Zones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Zones):
The people inhabiting Blue Zones share common lifestyle characteristics that contribute to their longevity. Among the lifestyle characteristics shared among the Okinawa, Sardinia, and Loma Linda Blue Zones are the following:[4]

* Family - Family is put ahead of other concerns.
* No Smoking - Centenarians do not typically smoke.
* Plant-Based Diet - The majority of food consumed is derived from plants.
* Constant Moderate Physical Activity - Moderate physical activity is an inseparable part of life.
* Social Engagement - People of all ages are socially active and integrated into their communities.
* Legumes - Legumes are commonly consumed.

Greg Battaglia
04-10-2009, 10:13 AM
I've read The Blue Zones and it is an excellent read overall. It's very inspiring to read about these amazing people who've lived to 100 and beyond AND maintained their health and functionality. Oprah actually did an episode on this book and Dr. Oz and Dan Buettner actually visited the blue zones. One man was 101 and was outside rigorously chopping weeds with a machete. He literally looked no older than 70 and in great shape. He was lean and muscular. It was amazing.

Anyway, to the point.........a few things that really stood out to me in the book were:

1. In all the Blue Zones it was found that overall calorie intake was between 1700 and 1900 kcals/day; these people are probably getting some of the benefits of lower calorie intake.

2. Virtually all of the very long-lived people endured great hardship at some point in their lives, whether it be famine, war, separation from family, etc. My speculation is that hardship calloused these people, making all the small things in life seem silly; they don't sweat the small stuff. I also think that hardship allows people to examine what is really important in life and focus on that and appreciate it.

3. They all have a strong sense of purpose. They have a reason to wake up everyday, whether it be an obligation to family, work, etc.

4. They all ate essentially a Weston Price-esque diet. All whole foods, grains and beans prepared to eliminate antinutrients, etc. Fermented foods, raw dairy, etc. Most of them drank alcohol, but in small quantities. Meat was generally consumed once a week in Sardinia, a few times a week in Okinawa and Nicoya, and little if ever in Limo Linda.

Buettner and his team also have discovered an island off the coast of Greece (called Ikaria I think, but not sure) that is also a Blue Zone. It should be interesting to read about that when the info is released on April 20th.

Mike ODonnell
04-11-2009, 10:48 AM
2. Virtually all of the very long-lived people endured great hardship at some point in their lives, whether it be famine, war, separation from family, etc. My speculation is that hardship calloused these people, making all the small things in life seem silly; they don't sweat the small stuff. I also think that hardship allows people to examine what is really important in life and focus on that and appreciate it.

That is very key....hence why stressors can make us stronger (if they are not chronic that is). What's the worst thing that can happen in life? You die....once you get over that fear and accept it, everything else is kind of small beans....and you can get on with appreciating what you have right now.

George Mounce
04-11-2009, 12:50 PM
That is very key....hence why stressors can make us stronger (if they are not chronic that is). What's the worst thing that can happen in life? You die....once you get over that fear and accept it, everything else is kind of small beans....and you can get on with appreciating what you have right now.

Fear of death keeps people alive as well though. You have the Zen mentality or the run like hell mentality. They both work in many cases.

Darryl Shaw
07-10-2009, 05:30 AM
Yet another study demonstrating the benefits of calorie restriction (CR) -

Cutting calories may delay the ageing process and reduce the risk of disease, a long-term study of monkeys suggests.

The benefits of calorie restriction are well documented in animals, but now the results have been replicated in a close relative of man over a lengthy period.

Over 20 years, monkeys whose diets were not restricted were nearly three times more likely to have died than those whose calories were counted.

Writing in Science, the US researchers hailed the "major effect" of the diet.

It involved reducing calorie intake by 30% while maintaining nutrition and appeared to impact upon many forms of age-related disease seen in monkeys, including cancer, diabetes, cardiovascular disease and brain atrophy.

Whether the same effects would be seen in humans is unclear, although anecdotal evidence so far suggests people on a long-term calorie-restricted diet have better cardiovascular health.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8141082.stm

................

Calorie-Counting Monkeys Live Longer.

Rodents, yeast, and roundworms all have something in common: They live longer when they consume less. Now a primate has joined the calorie-restriction club. After 20 long years of waiting, scientists have concluded that rhesus monkeys that eat nearly a third less food than normal monkeys age more slowly. The results come as close as any can to proving that calorie restriction could significantly slow aging in humans--even if such a lean diet would not appeal to most of us.

Researchers first discovered the connection between lean diets and extended life spans in a 1935 study of calorie-restricted rats. In the past decade, studies in yeast and worms have pinpointed some genes that may be responsible. Scientists believe the genes somehow ramp up systems to protect an organism from environmental stress and may have evolved to help organisms survive in environments where food was scarce. In rodent studies, calorie restriction can extend life span by 20% to 80%. Whether calorie restriction also slows aging in primates wasn't known, however.

Two decades ago, three different research groups in the United States decided to fill this gap. The groups have previously published updates on their monkeys' health, but in tomorrow's issue of Science, one of them reports survival data from their colony of 76 rhesus monkeys. The team, led by gerontologist Richard Weindruch of the University of Wisconsin, Madison, began monitoring the animals when they hit 7 to 14 years old--monkey adulthood. Researchers allowed half of the monkeys to eat as much as they wanted during the day, while restricting the other half to a diet with 30% fewer calories. The scientists gave the restricted monkeys vitamin and mineral supplements to ensure they did not suffer malnutrition and treated any animals that fell sick, says Weindruch.

Studying aging in monkeys takes patience. Mice and rats only live for a couple of years, while these monkeys can live to 40, and the average life span is 27 years. Now that the surviving monkeys have reached their mid- to late 20s, the Wisconsin group could glean how calorie restriction was affecting their life span. Sixty-three percent of the calorie-restricted animals are still alive compared to only 45% of their free-feeding counterparts. For age-related deaths caused by illnesses such as cardiovascular disease and cancer, the voracious eaters died at three times the rate of restricted monkeys: 14 versus five monkeys, respectively. Another seven control and nine lean monkeys died from causes not related to aging such as complications from anesthesia or injuries. Leaner diets also reduced muscle and brain gray matter deterioration, two conditions associated with aging. (The team has not yet studied cognitive differences between the two groups.)

http://sciencenow.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/2009/709/1

Andy Robinson
07-11-2009, 06:19 AM
Anorexia rules!...

Darryl Shaw
12-22-2009, 05:51 AM
Long-Term Physical Activity Has an Anti-Aging Effect at the Cellular Level.

ScienceDaily (Dec. 2, 2009) — Intensive exercise prevented shortening of telomeres, a protective effect against aging of the cardiovascular system, according to research reported in Circulation: Journal of the American Heart Association.

Researchers measured the length of telomeres -- the DNA that bookends the chromosomes and protects the ends from damage -- in blood samples from two groups of professional athletes and two groups who were healthy nonsmokers, but not regular exercisers.

The telomere shortening mechanism limits cells to a fixed number of divisions and can be regarded as a "biological clock." Gradual shortening of telomeres through cell divisions leads to aging on the cellular level and may limit lifetimes. When the telomeres become critically short the cell undergoes death. The 2009 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine was awarded to researchers who discovered the nature of telomeres and how chromosomes are protected by telomeres and the enzyme telomerase.

"The most significant finding of this study is that physical exercise of the professional athletes leads to activation of the important enzyme telomerase and stabilizes the telomere," said Ulrich Laufs, M.D., the study's lead author and professor of clinical and experimental medicine in the department of internal medicine at Saarland University in Homburg, Germany.

"This is direct evidence of an anti-aging effect of physical exercise. Physical exercise could prevent the aging of the cardiovascular system, reflecting this molecular principle."


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091130161806.htm

Michael Miller
06-18-2010, 01:17 AM
1 2 3 CLEAR!!! Ok my lame attempt at reviving this thread :P

http://health.yahoo.net/articles/aging/how-live-be-101

Discuss?

Gary Ohm
06-19-2010, 08:44 AM
I'm glad this is revived. Longevity is my primary motivation. But everything that comes out seems to keep saying the same thing. Eat the things that we know we should eat, keep moving the way we know we should, keep active the way we know we should, and take things in moderation. It's amazing how hard it is for me to follow these guidelines..:o

Scott Hanson
02-17-2011, 09:15 AM
Bump to this old (no pun intended) thread. Interesting study done on some Ecuadoreans who are seemingly free of cancer and diabetes due to a genetic mutation that greatly reduces IGF-1, resulting from impaired reception of HGH. This is supportive of studies done in animals that increased longevity by impairment of this same gene or hormonal process. I haven't looked for the study report, but this is a NYT article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/17/science/17longevity.html?src=me&ref=general

Robert Callahan
02-19-2011, 04:02 PM
Bump to this old (no pun intended) thread. Interesting study done on some Ecuadoreans who are seemingly free of cancer and diabetes due to a genetic mutation that greatly reduces IGF-1, resulting from impaired reception of HGH. This is supportive of studies done in animals that increased longevity by impairment of this same gene or hormonal process. I haven't looked for the study report, but this is a NYT article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/17/science/17longevity.html?src=me&ref=general

The interesting thing in that study is that even though they had practically zero occurrence of heart disease and diabetes the overall mortality rate was the same. They just died of different things....

Garrett Smith
02-20-2011, 05:57 AM
The interesting thing in that study is that even though they had practically zero occurrence of heart disease and diabetes the overall mortality rate was the same. They just died of different things....
Yeah, the selling points of being 3.5 feet tall with a penchant for alcoholism and "accidents" probably won't go over too well with many people.

Except maybe those folks who espouse "Elite Fitness" and don't work out.

Mark Cooper
02-20-2011, 11:00 AM
I think people are looking way to deep into this: An old age with quality is what we are all after, the beautiful death: walking through the meadow at 90 on a glorious summers day and bang dead before you hit the floor... Perfect. Very rare though.

I think it comes down to good luck & bad luck. Friend of mine a couple of weeks ago aged 57, fit, ate paleo, never had a day off work sick. Triathlete, out on a training ride, dead, ran over by an arctic lorry, driver fell a sleep.
Another mutual friend obese, eats crap put coke up his nose weekly until he was 55, drinks copious amounts of alcohol, just turned 63. Most jovial man I know. Apart from the obesity he has no medical problems at all. Bp and all that, is all ok. Just don't figure:-(

Good luck - Bad luck, as simple as that. Do what you enjoy.

Scott Hanson
02-21-2011, 08:42 AM
Good story, though not news to people here:

http://www.npr.org/2011/02/21/133776800/seniors-can-still-bulk-up-on-muscle-by-pressing-iron

Greg Battaglia
02-28-2011, 12:51 PM
Here's a really good blog that highlights information on centenarians from a wide range of disiplines (genetics, nutrition, fitness, psychology, etc.)

The link goes to a particular post on the "Blue Zones" but the blog as a whole has a ton of info on centenarians and longevity research.

The thing that always gets me is that virtually ALL of these centenarians that maintain their health and vitality eat very little meat. Certainly doesn't jive with the whole paleo concept and some research has implicated high protein intake with increased reactive oxygen species in mitochondria and increased mTOR activity. This may explain the overwhelming representation of vegetarians and near-vegetarians in the centenarian population. Perhaps a plant-based paleo approach would be best for longevity to avoid the complications associated with grain and legume intake we see in typical vegetarian/plant-based diets.

http://centenariansecrets.blogspot.com/2008/04/centenarian-blue-zones.html

Gary Ohm
12-14-2011, 06:20 PM
The thing that always gets me is that virtually ALL of these centenarians that maintain their health and vitality eat very little meat. Certainly doesn't jive with the whole paleo concept and some research has implicated high protein intake with increased reactive oxygen species in mitochondria and increased mTOR activity. This may explain the overwhelming representation of vegetarians and near-vegetarians in the centenarian population. Perhaps a plant-based paleo approach would be best for longevity to avoid the complications associated with grain and legume intake we see in typical vegetarian/plant-based diets.

http://centenariansecrets.blogspot.com/2008/04/centenarian-blue-zones.html

Anutha bump....
I read recently someone postulating on this issue. They made the comment that perhaps the protein intake necessary for high strength based sport/lifestyle was contraindicated for longevity by definition.

Vegetarian leanings (not total, but not "paleo") seem to provide more consistent longevity. Perhaps a high strength, super active lifestyle is not most conducive to living a long time...
I'll need to look more into this before I draw conclusions. Though I am leaning more and more towards this conclusion...

Darryl Shaw
11-21-2012, 12:25 PM
Leisure Time Physical Activity of Moderate to Vigorous Intensity and Mortality: A Large Pooled Cohort Analysis.

Abstract

Background: Leisure time physical activity reduces the risk of premature mortality, but the years of life expectancy gained at different levels remains unclear. Our objective was to determine the years of life gained after age 40 associated with various levels of physical activity, both overall and according to body mass index (BMI) groups, in a large pooled analysis.

Methods and Findings: We examined the association of leisure time physical activity with mortality during follow-up in pooled data from six prospective cohort studies in the National Cancer Institute Cohort Consortium, comprising 654,827 individuals, 21–90 y of age. Physical activity was categorized by metabolic equivalent hours per week (MET-h/wk). Life expectancies and years of life gained/lost were calculated using direct adjusted survival curves (for participants 40+ years of age), with 95% confidence intervals (CIs) derived by bootstrap. The study includes a median 10 y of follow-up and 82,465 deaths. A physical activity level of 0.1–3.74 MET-h/wk, equivalent to brisk walking for up to 75 min/wk, was associated with a gain of 1.8 (95% CI: 1.6–2.0) y in life expectancy relative to no leisure time activity (0 MET-h/wk). Higher levels of physical activity were associated with greater gains in life expectancy, with a gain of 4.5 (95% CI: 4.3–4.7) y at the highest level (22.5+ MET-h/wk, equivalent to brisk walking for 450+ min/wk). Substantial gains were also observed in each BMI group. In joint analyses, being active (7.5+ MET-h/wk) and normal weight (BMI 18.5–24.9) was associated with a gain of 7.2 (95% CI: 6.5–7.9) y of life compared to being inactive (0 MET-h/wk) and obese (BMI 35.0+). A limitation was that physical activity and BMI were ascertained by self report.

Conclusions: More leisure time physical activity was associated with longer life expectancy across a range of activity levels and BMI groups.


http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pmed.1001335

Gary Ohm
11-21-2012, 12:30 PM
It's nice to see a study that lays out what most people probably intuitively know. If you are pretty active on most days and keep a healthy body weight you will live the longest.
Now to find studies on WHICH TYPE of exercise paid greatest dividends and what diet....
Thanks for the link Darryl.:D

Darryl Shaw
11-23-2012, 12:26 PM
Muscular strength in male adolescents and premature death: cohort study of one million participants.

Abstract

Objectives: To explore the extent to which muscular strength in adolescence is associated with all cause and cause specific premature mortality (<55 years).

Design: Prospective cohort study.

Setting: Sweden.

Participants: 1 142 599 Swedish male adolescents aged 16-19 years were followed over a period of 24 years.

Main outcome measures: Baseline examinations included knee extension, handgrip, and elbow flexion strength tests, as well as measures of diastolic and systolic blood pressure and body mass index. Cox regression was used to estimate hazard ratios for mortality according to muscular strength categories (tenths).

Results: During a median follow-up period of 24 years, 26 145 participants died. Suicide was a more frequent cause of death in young adulthood (22.3%) than was cardiovascular diseases (7.8%) or cancer (14.9%). High muscular strength in adolescence, as assessed by knee extension and handgrip tests, was associated with a 20-35% lower risk of premature mortality due to any cause or cardiovascular disease, independently of body mass index or blood pressure; no association was observed with mortality due to cancer. Stronger adolescents had a 20-30% lower risk of death from suicide and were 15-65% less likely to have any psychiatric diagnosis (such as schizophrenia and mood disorders). Adolescents in the lowest tenth of muscular strength showed by far the highest risk of mortality for different causes. All cause mortality rates (per 100 000 person years) ranged between 122.3 and 86.9 for the weakest and strongest adolescents; corresponding figures were 9.5 and 5.6 for mortality due to cardiovascular diseases and 24.6 and 16.9 for mortality due to suicide.

Conclusions: Low muscular strength in adolescents is an emerging risk factor for major causes of death in young adulthood, such as suicide and cardiovascular diseases. The effect size observed for all cause mortality was equivalent to that for well established risk factors such as elevated body mass index or blood pressure.

http://www.bmj.com/content/345/bmj.e7279

Darryl Shaw
12-14-2012, 01:54 PM
Mortality in former Olympic athletes: retrospective cohort analysis.

Abstract

Objective: To assess the mortality risk in subsequent years (adjusted for year of birth, nationality, and sex) of former Olympic athletes from disciplines with different levels of exercise intensity.

Design: Retrospective cohort study.

Setting: Former Olympic athletes.

Participants: 9889 athletes (with a known age at death) who participated in the Olympic Games between 1896 and 1936, representing 43 types of disciplines with different levels of cardiovascular, static, and dynamic intensity exercise; high or low risk of bodily collision; and different levels of physical contact.

Main outcome measure: All cause mortality.

Results: Hazard ratios for mortality among athletes from disciplines with moderate cardiovascular intensity (1.01, 95% confidence interval 0.96 to 1.07) or high cardiovascular intensity (0.98, 0.92 to 1.04) were similar to those in athletes from disciplines with low cardiovascular intensity. The underlying static and dynamic components in exercise intensity showed similar non-significant results. Increased mortality was seen among athletes from disciplines with a high risk of bodily collision (hazard ratio 1.11, 1.06 to 1.15) and with high levels of physical contact (1.16, 1.11 to 1.22). In a multivariate analysis, the effect of high cardiovascular intensity remained similar (hazard ratio 1.05, 0.89 to 1.25); the increased mortality associated with high physical contact persisted (hazard ratio 1.13, 1.06 to 1.21), but that for bodily collision became non-significant (1.03, 0.98 to 1.09) as a consequence of its close relation with physical contact.

Conclusions: Among former Olympic athletes, engagement in disciplines with high intensity exercise did not bring a survival benefit compared with disciplines with low intensity exercise. Those who engaged in disciplines with high levels of physical contact had higher mortality than other Olympians later in life.

http://www.bmj.com/content/345/bmj.e7456

Darryl Shaw
12-14-2012, 02:10 PM
Survival of the fittest: retrospective cohort study of the longevity of Olympic medallists in the modern era.

Abstract

Objective: To determine whether Olympic medallists live longer than the general population.

Design: Retrospective cohort study, with passive follow-up and conditional survival analysis to account for unidentified loss to follow-up.

Setting and participants: 15 174 Olympic athletes from nine country groups (United States, Germany, Nordic countries, Russia, United Kingdom, France, Italy, Canada, and Australia and New Zealand) who won medals in the Olympic Games held in 1896-2010. Medallists were compared with matched cohorts in the general population (by country, age, sex, and year of birth).

Main outcome measures: Relative conditional survival.

Results: More medallists than matched controls in the general population were alive 30 years after winning (relative conditional survival 1.08, 95% confidence interval 1.07 to 1.10). Medallists lived an average of 2.8 years longer than controls. Medallists in eight of the nine country groups had a significant survival advantage compared with controls. Gold, silver, and bronze medallists each enjoyed similar sized survival advantages. Medallists in endurance sports and mixed sports had a larger survival advantage over controls at 30 years (1.13, 1.09 to 1.17; 1.11, 1.09 to 1.13) than that of medallists in power sports (1.05, 1.01 to 1.08).

Conclusions: Olympic medallists live longer than the general population, irrespective of country, medal, or sport. This study was not designed to explain this effect, but possible explanations include genetic factors, physical activity, healthy lifestyle, and the wealth and status that come with international sporting glory.

http://www.bmj.com/content/345/bmj.e8308

See also: Editorial: Everyone could enjoy the “survival advantage” of elite athletes. (http://www.bmj.com/content/345/bmj.e8338)