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View Full Version : Khalipa vs Spealer


Robert Callahan
03-21-2010, 11:19 PM
Anyone else see that video in the CFJ?

For those who haven't the take home message:

Periodized (non random) strength work increases preformance.



Who'd a thunk it?

Garrett Smith
03-22-2010, 06:27 AM
Thou shalt be ex-communicated for thy heresy. 'Tis not true!

Moran Bentzur
03-22-2010, 06:49 AM
Mainsite WOD's are not random. There is a long-term planning to the WOD's. The fact that no one seems to be able to "crack the code", or that no one involved in the planning and posting of the Main Page WOD's has seen fit to share the proprietary template with us is not de facto proof that they are random. I converse with these folks on a weekly basis; they find the ongoing "controversy" about the so-called randomness of the Main page to be laughable.

Robert, you are right, but you have to hide your periodization in a way that only elite mathematicians can crack the code. If you stare at it enough, you too might be able to read the matrix.

Steve Shafley
03-22-2010, 07:04 AM
If you can't discern the signal through the noise, there's no signal.

Kevin Perry
03-22-2010, 07:39 AM
So where are the drug test results from the gaymes?

Garrett Smith
03-22-2010, 08:47 AM
Robert, you are right, but you have to hide your periodization in a way that only elite mathematicians can crack the code. If you stare at it enough, you too might be able to read the matrix.

Google Web definitions for random (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=BiP&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&defl=en&q=define:random&ei=SJCnS57kDoiusgOLmKjaAw&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title&ved=0CAYQkAE):
(I like this one)
Having no specific pattern, arrangement or predictable outcome.
Obviously as opposed to, say, periodization having a predictable outcome.

Robert Callahan
03-22-2010, 10:01 AM
Robert, you are right, but you have to hide your periodization in a way that only elite mathematicians can crack the code. If you stare at it enough, you too might be able to read the matrix.

Well that is what I thought as well, but learned otherwise in the video.

When asked about his training Spealer says, "...so, lots of crossfit, and then throw in some strength work with it, which is still crossfit."

So apparently periodized strength work is still crossfit. Which then begs the question, what is not crossfit?

Júlíus G. Magnússon
03-22-2010, 10:42 AM
Aren't you guys getting tired of picking on CrossFit?

Derek Weaver
03-22-2010, 11:25 AM
Aren't you guys getting tired of picking on CrossFit?

Never.

Chris Falkner
03-22-2010, 12:21 PM
picking on crossfit is like picking a scab. once you start you cant stop. sometimes you are picking it and do not even realize it.

Shane Skowron
03-22-2010, 06:34 PM
Well that is what I thought as well, but learned otherwise in the video.

When asked about his training Spealer says, "...so, lots of crossfit, and then throw in some strength work with it, which is still crossfit."

So apparently periodized strength work is still crossfit. Which then begs the question, what is not crossfit?

Everything is CrossFit. Went for a jog today? CF. Tossed a baseball? CF. Heck, CF even invented the pushup.


Spealler is still cool in my book though.

Derek Weaver
03-22-2010, 06:41 PM
I'm at the tail end of recovering from pneumonia for time. Right now I'm the World Record Holder. Still no posting on this page (http://www.crossfit.com/cf-info/trophy/CF-challenge.html) yet.

Júlíus G. Magnússon
03-22-2010, 07:04 PM
Everything is CrossFit. Went for a jog today? CF. Tossed a baseball? CF. Heck, CF even invented the pushup.


Spealler is still cool in my book though.
For what it's worth, Spealler talked about his strength work (except for the back squat), as "constantly varied" and assuming he's doing it at a "high intensity" using "functional movements" that's basically the definition of CrossFit right there.

Garrett Smith
03-22-2010, 08:29 PM
For what it's worth, Spealler talked about his strength work (except for the back squat), as "constantly varied" and assuming he's doing it at a "high intensity" using "functional movements" that's basically the definition of CrossFit right there.
So, by the all-inclusive definition of CF, then 5/3/1 is CF.

Functional movements, check.

High intensity, check.

Constantly varied? Well, since it is unlikely any final AMRAP set will be exactly like any other set (different reps), and the weights increase each week (different weight), every workout will be "different" than the one before it. Check.

CF's definition of fitness is about as useful as the Weider Principles.

I'll let you tell Wendler that 5/3/1 is CF. While you're at it, you should probably tell Louie Simmons he's doing CF too.

Garrett Smith
03-22-2010, 08:38 PM
Actually, I've decided to combine a couple of Weider Principles (http://www.muscleandfitness.com/training/121?page=1) to make a new, revolutionary exercise program.

ECLECTIC TRAINING - Incorporate a diverse selection of variables, such as set, rep and exercise schemes, into your workout.

MUSCLE CONFUSION - Constantly change variables in your workout--number of sets, number of reps, exercise choice, order of exercises, length of your rest periods--to avoid getting in a rut and slowing growth.

PROGRESSIVE OVERLOAD - To continue making gains, your muscles need to work harder in a progressive manner from one workout to the next. During most of your training cycle, try to increase your weights each session, do more reps or sets, or decrease your rest periods between sets.
I think if I combined these with John Jesse's "Wrestling Physical Training Encyclopedia", I'd really be onto something.

Robert Callahan
03-22-2010, 11:25 PM
For what it's worth, Spealler talked about his strength work (except for the back squat), as "constantly varied" and assuming he's doing it at a "high intensity" using "functional movements" that's basically the definition of CrossFit right there.

Well the Back Squats are not constantly varied as you point out, but he does say he tends to do the Olympic lifts to 80-90% max at least once a week, as well as a heavy metcon at least once a week. So even if he varies a little, it is not random.

I think Spealer is an amazing athlete, the way he throws around 155 in the video is damn impressive for a guy weight 140 or so. I just found it funny that when he talked about his training he would start saying how he tailors it to work around his weaknesses (ie not random) then would kinda look around all startled like and say, "but it is still crossfit". Just seemed forced, but that is my opinion. I think he trains smart and a lot of people, myself included could learn from it, but I also think the level of specialization he does gets away from what crossfit is.

Constantly varied functional movments preformed at high intensity.

That is Crossfit. But if you are tailoring workouts to address your weaknesses they are no longer constantly varied, nor are they necessarily always being preformed at high intensity. Therefore it is not crossfit. So if training for crossfit is no longer best suited by doing crossfit then where does that leave us? What am i missing?

Moran Bentzur
03-23-2010, 02:04 AM
Well the Back Squats are not constantly varied as you point out, but he does say he tends to do the Olympic lifts to 80-90% max at least once a week, as well as a heavy metcon at least once a week. So even if he varies a little, it is not random.

I think Spealer is an amazing athlete, the way he throws around 155 in the video is damn impressive for a guy weight 140 or so. I just found it funny that when he talked about his training he would start saying how he tailors it to work around his weaknesses (ie not random) then would kinda look around all startled like and say, "but it is still crossfit". Just seemed forced, but that is my opinion. I think he trains smart and a lot of people, myself included could learn from it, but I also think the level of specialization he does gets away from what crossfit is.

Constantly varied functional movments preformed at high intensity.

That is Crossfit. But if you are tailoring workouts to address your weaknesses they are no longer constantly varied, nor are they necessarily always being preformed at high intensity. Therefore it is not crossfit. So if training for crossfit is no longer best suited by doing crossfit then where does that leave us? What am i missing?

You are missing the part where it is much easier and marketable to program randomly. It also sounds sexy. It takes much more expertise to assess an athlete and program efficiently to his demands. It is also much more easier to have group classes if everyone is doing the same thing regardless of their needs. The results might be less than optimal, but you can sidestep that by making the prescription so lax that you can claim the results of people doing it the right way.

Jay Ashman
03-23-2010, 06:17 AM
Regardless of people's opinions on CrossFit, Spealer is one hell of a fit and strong dude for his size. He blew away Khalipa's time and he got a time I wouldn't even get within 5 minutes of - at least... Both of them are very impressive.

There is only one CrossFit and that is .com, the rest are just their interpretations of it, some program effectively and some don't.

Júlíus G. Magnússon
03-23-2010, 10:45 AM
Maybe Spealler is just scared of being thrown out the window (like some other people) for not doing CrossFit.

Robb Wolf
03-30-2010, 01:29 PM
Maybe Spealler is just scared of being thrown out the window (like some other people) for not doing CrossFit.

People...kicked out...for disagreeing?! That's MADNESS.

If everything is CF, nothing is CF. You cannot have it both ways.

back to the book.

Robert Callahan
03-31-2010, 01:57 PM
back to the book.

How is the book coming? If you don't mind me asking :)

Robb Wolf
03-31-2010, 07:56 PM
How is the book coming? If you don't mind me asking :)

Pretty damn good! Need to do a bunch of re-writes for the insulin chapter, but all is good.

Cormac O'Brien
04-02-2010, 06:16 AM
If everything is CF, nothing is CF.


How marvellously Zen.

robby mor
04-03-2010, 08:22 AM
Pretty damn good! Need to do a bunch of re-writes for the insulin chapter, but all is good.
Thats what happens when you indulge in psedo-science:D :D