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Daniel Gam
03-29-2010, 02:35 PM
i'm 5'11'' 165-170lbs at ~5% BF hoping to jump from the 77 to the 85 weight class, so i'm thinking 5x5 or 3x5 squats and presses with lots of eating.

given my weight goal, what would benefit my olympic lifting more?

going on starting strength (with HBBS) OR doing something like that but alternating days with olympic lifting like the programs outlined in these 2 articles?
http://www.pendlay.com/Converting-to-Weightlifting_df_43.html
http://www.70sbig.com/?p=1315

i'm wondering if giving up olympic lifting for a few months to get stronger and heavier faster will benefit my lifts more in the long run, cause the difference between my squats and olympic lifts is painfully small.

snatch 86
C&J 105
OHS 1RM 90
FS: 3RM 102.5
BS: 3RM 115
power clean: 1RM 95
press: 1RM 70

Andrew Wilson
03-29-2010, 09:47 PM
I actually tried that, didn't work. If you drop the oly lifts you'll lose the speed strength and the drop speed. The presses also confuse pressing in the jerks. Having a high absolute strength compared to the lifts is actually really great. You could just alternate fs/ bs per session after sn cj.

Philip Stablein
03-31-2010, 07:01 AM
If I were you, I'd aim for the 94s!

Daniel Gam
03-31-2010, 07:40 AM
i've already come a long way - i was 140lbs in 04' going into college! i already eat a lot to begin with, but i just don't put on weight easily.

its true, i've noticed that amongst top level olympic athletes, there doesn't seem to be anyone 5'10 and taller in the 85 and in all the weight classes below. they don't start getting that tall until the 94, 105, and 105+

Alex Bond
03-31-2010, 11:34 AM
Do the 70s Big one. Linear progression in the strength lifts and enough oly practice that you don't forget how to get under a bar.

Philip Stablein
03-31-2010, 07:57 PM
i've already come a long way - i was 140lbs in 04' going into college! i already eat a lot to begin with, but i just don't put on weight easily.

its true, i've noticed that amongst top level olympic athletes, there doesn't seem to be anyone 5'10 and taller in the 85 and in all the weight classes below. they don't start getting that tall until the 94, 105, and 105+

I know your journey man. I'm 6'1 and have gone from the 77s to the 105s in the past 20 months.

Garrett Smith
03-31-2010, 10:20 PM
5/3/1 for FS, BS, and PCs. If your skill is good, you can leave the main OLs for months, get stronger, and come back just fine.

I hadn't snatched since August '09. I just set a snatch PR two weeks ago--3/14/10--in my first day back training them, after increasing my BS by 20# (FS likely by more) over the last several months. Did I mention that the three weeks before I set that snatch PR that I didn't even do my PCs (only PL meet prep stuff) and that I always lift my best in meets (so I likely had more in me)?

If you have good technique in the lifts to begin with, it's not that hard to shine them up after storing them away to get stronger on other stuff.

FWIW. Just my results, and I'm looking forward to more of them. :)

James Bailey
04-01-2010, 01:38 AM
I am currently midway of moving up a weight class myself, was around 78kg in November and am now around 87kg, I am also 5' 11". I am shooting for 94kg in a couple of months when there is a small local comp on, then I will start moving up to 105kg, though if that proves as much fucking eating as this is currently then I'll just make sure to clean up and lean out at 94 instead.

I have found that strength work with heavy full lifts works well. I do a three day schedule, I find that I can either go for a max for the day or do something like 20 singles on the min for snatch or 10 singles every two mins for C&J. That gets in quality heavyish single work, can also do doubles if they work for you. I don't like them unless it is power versions of the lifts, though I might do more as I progress.

I have put about 20kg on both lifts since Nov. Snatch 80kg C&J 107.5kg, My other lifts are similar to yours, it isn't a bad thing that you can clean 2.5kg above your 3RM FS. Actually shows you as an efficient lifter. You just need to get stronger. I found 5x5 or 8x3 on squats works for about 4 weeks then I need to take a deload. I have just started cutting back on strength volume as I can't recover from it as well now. So I am doing 3x5 or 6x3 on squats(back, front and overhead), presses( I push press, press and bench) and deadlifts, 3x10 on accessory lifts like RDL, Pull Ups.

Check my log out...

Gary John
04-01-2010, 07:59 AM
You need to get a lot stronger at the weight you are at.

Your back squat sucks.

And never claim anything for bodyfat. That's just goofy stuff.

Lots of programs with few reps, big weights.

Try it for a couple of months.

Daniel Gam
04-01-2010, 08:12 AM
i just happened to get a free skin caliper BF test by a professional recently

Daniel Gam
04-01-2010, 08:15 AM
i think all my sleep lost from having diarrhea might outweigh the benefits of drinking a gallon of milk

Gavin Harrison
04-01-2010, 10:49 AM
i think all my sleep lost from having diarrhea might outweigh the benefits of drinking a gallon of milk

I have pretty much the same issues.. two solutions are:

1. Get a milk digestive aid (I've used this one, http://www.amazon.com/Digestive-Advantage-Management-Intolerance-32-Count/dp/B001G7QGCM)
2. Take protein supplements instead. At Large Nutrition's or Muscle Milk are good ones. I've only ever tried those or GNC's 100% whey, but blends seem like a smarter way to go. Also, muscle milk works well for weight gain.

Andrew Wilson
04-01-2010, 03:51 PM
btw Daniel, you could just check out lsus' program (http://goheavy.com/forums/olympic/index.cgi/read/475141), or a volume cut of Dragomir's on Mr. Takano's site (http://www.takanoathletics.com/index.php?option=com_phocadownload&view=category&id=2:instructional-articles&Itemid=192), or Glenn's site (http://calstrengthacademy.com/?cat=42) all wfs. Not to step on the toes of the internet philosophers, but it helps to follow the guys that have actually produced high class legitimate lifters.

Garrett Smith
04-01-2010, 05:12 PM
It's likely that some more bodyfat on you would make you stronger.

Gary John
04-01-2010, 06:10 PM
:eek: Andrew,

I was freakin' brilliant and succinct.

Oh and check out your own reference from Takano:

Outside of snatches and clean and jerks, there is no other single exercise
that places such a large workload on the body as limit and near limit back
squats


:eek: :eek: :eek:

Garrett Smith
04-01-2010, 07:41 PM
Andrew,
Not that anyone is offended by being called an internet philosopher, but if Daniel wanted advice directly from the coaches (probably for a fee) he could ask them. He is, rather, on an interwebz forum asking for free advice.

From the same link Gary posted the quote above (from Takano):
http://www.takanoathletics.com/index.php?option=com_phocadownload&view=category&id=2:instructional-articles&download=16:benefits-of-the-back-squat&Itemid=192
Squatting is a fantastic exercise that provides a wide array of benefits for any athlete wishing to change the anabolic state, increase leg strength, strengthen the knee joint and develop explosiveness in the legs and hips. It secondarily will improve the synergy and strengthen the postural musculature of the torso. It saves time in the workout for the busy athlete as it improves so many areas with just a few sets.
Daniel, you need some meat on your bones, some fat too. Squats are your ticket.

glennpendlay
04-02-2010, 01:55 AM
I would humbly recomend something simple, like a 10/10 program for the Olympic lifts 3 days a week, something like what is now called "texas method", or maybe 5/3/1 for squats, and, some pullups and presses if you have the energy. You may not, and that wouldnt be a big deal. And eat a lot.

If you want your snatch and clean and jerk to go up, you have to do the lifts, and do them a lot. If you want to get big and strong, you have to eat and squat. It is pretty much that simple.

glenn

Gant Grimes
04-02-2010, 02:06 PM
i think all my sleep lost from having diarrhea might outweigh the benefits of drinking a gallon of milk

You need milk and you need sleep. Wear diapers.