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Troy Kerr
05-14-2010, 03:21 PM
I remembered a thread on here awhile back in which the question of why does the back lever come first in routines like the killroy70 routine. I was browswing the gymnasticbodies.com forum last night and found a link stating that although the back lever is easier in terms of muscle recruitment, it puts the elbow in a hyperflexed position.
With this in mind, for the past 1 1/2 months i have began working on the supinated back lever, placing it as one of the last movements in my routine following handstand, planche, and front lever work. When workined the supinated position my elbows felt a extreme stretch in a normal tucked position and sometimes felt as though they were gonna explode. Today I put the supinated back lever second in my routine following my planche work and the extreme elbow tension felt as though it was cut in half, I followed up with front lever static work and everything felt fine.
I just wanted to throw this out there for those who may be experiancing similar trouble.

Blair Lowe
05-14-2010, 10:18 PM
Yep.

Slizzardman, Slizzy or Liz noted the BL puts a lot of pressure on the inner elbow which is quite tasking as our inner elbow typically isn't subjected to such things naturally while the outer elbow (where FL hits a lot) is typically fine.

Notice that the GB WODS, generally go BackLever, Planche, FrontLever. I used to go Planche, BackLever, then FrontLever but I guess it switches from push to pull exercise.

However, I also played with FrontLever, Planche, then BackLever and that made the BackLevers really suck hard.

Your elbows only hyperflex if they do because you have hyperflexion in your elbows. Still, you are putting load on the elbow. There are quite a lot of gymnasts out there performing crosses and ring handstand or cross handstand with funky hyperflexed elbows with no problems.

Steven Low
05-15-2010, 08:18 AM
Yep, that likely means it's too much for you to handle right now.

Back off. Go back to german hang holds and more bent arm strengthening work.

Obviously, this tends to be more of a problem for those who are heavier... but can be easily remedied with bent arm pulling or specific biceps work if you want to go that route.

Blair Lowe
05-15-2010, 09:22 PM
Maybe that's a reason I never had problems with it when I first learned it. I had done my share of curls and bent arm strength for quite some time. Failing on MU wasn't pleasant but wasn't lasting back then.

I also wasn't much lighter. 150's.

Patrick Donnelly
05-16-2010, 07:23 PM
Curls do great things for the elbows after back levers - seriously.

After holding decently long back levers at 220lbs, my elbows frequently are killing me. A few sets of higher-rep barbell curls at a decent weight (~100lbs) fixes that right up.

Troy Kerr
05-16-2010, 09:08 PM
So with all this in mind, how could I structure this in my routine?

Blair Lowe
05-16-2010, 10:01 PM
curls at the end of rounds of:

BL, PL, FL, L/Straddle-L/Manna work

Troy Kerr
05-17-2010, 08:19 AM
Thanks Blair. So that would be a set of curls at the end of each movement? Are these bodyweight curls on the rings or db/bb curls ?

Steven Low
05-17-2010, 08:53 AM
I think he meant it would be your choice.

A good choice is after BL as patrick said.

If you're going to add in the curl variations using the whole body it would be wise to classify that a skill itself. Otherwise, BB/DB curls can be added anywhere.

Troy Kerr
05-17-2010, 09:02 AM
Ok. Thanks Steven. As you mentioned about German hangs and other bent arm work, did u mean to use those as a way to completely replace the BL work for this cycle?

Blair Lowe
05-18-2010, 03:11 AM
BL, PL, FL, L/Straddle-L/Manna work After doing everything from BL-L or Straddle-L or Manna, I would do your set of curls then rest. And I mean, just a set of DB curls or EZbar or straight bar or whatever curls you are gonna do with weight. I am not referencing "body curls" or what I call inverted(upside down) pullups. I guess you could use those too, if you wanted. But I just wanted an assistance exercise to tighten up your elbow joint. It doesn't mean curl 150lbs. Just enough to tighten things up but not drain you. You could use supinated pullups or rope climbs or T-rows or whatever, but I wouldn't want to add most of those to working those statics/FBE at the same time. Maybe later, but I think they might screw with performance of training those positions.

But this is because when I do the statics/FBE, I do them in this order then rest instead of just doing say 60s of volume/sets of one Static/FBE then moving on to the next one.

This is also because it's more time efficient. Otherwise it would take forever to get through the sets/volume of each FBE even you could take shorter rests (30-45s since recommended was 45-90s) I and my boys only have so much time. I could imagine that once you start working the more intense progressions or advanced strength skills you may need more time to rest, even if you're working at a reduced intensity. Let's not get into that now. It's been done.

Troy Kerr
05-19-2010, 12:19 PM
Roger that. What do you mean exactly by "tighten things up"?