PDA

View Full Version : Faq 5/3/1


Allen Yeh
06-22-2010, 04:24 PM
Originally posted over on FB by Shaf:

http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/training-logs.asp?qid=123083&tid

A few highlights:

5. How to increase your pulling (back) volume?

o Do one set of pulling between EVERY PUSHING MOVEMENT - even the warmups and work sets. I do 50 chin ups before I even touch a barbell in the weight room. And then sets of 10 between every set that I do, including all warm ups and works sets

9. Treadmill Sprints

- Here was/is a typical workout for me on the treadmill (sprints). After a good warm-up start at 8 or 9 MPH. Do 10 seconds on/30-40 seconds off. Raise the incline gradually and raise the speed too. I usually end up at 11 or 12 mph at the end. But start too slow and build up over several workouts. No less than 20-30 sprints. I have also done 20 second sprints - but this will kill you

46. When NOT to do conditioning

- Never do conditioning the day before lower body lifting

Good stuff.

Collin O'Neill
06-22-2010, 05:10 PM
Awesome.

Definitely answered some questions I had banging around my head, and brought up some good points to ponder.

I am just about hitting a wall on my press, so I will go back two cycles and start from there.

Garrett Smith
06-22-2010, 05:33 PM
Interesting that he says no front squats on the 5/3/1. I'm doing both FS and BS, making progress on both, doing them after my OLs. I am considering only doing the "5" as a max on the "5" week though, the high rep FS tire out the upper back.

I love the "I Ain't Doing Jack Shit" program. Heck, I'm running that on 5 exercises plus some Oly 2 days a week. So it's not really the program...and it's working.

David Boyle
06-22-2010, 06:03 PM
Interesting that he says no front squats on the 5/3/1. I'm doing both FS and BS, making progress on both, doing them after my OLs. I am considering only doing the "5" as a max on the "5" week though, the high rep FS tire out the upper back.

I love the "I Ain't Doing Jack Shit" program. Heck, I'm running that on 5 exercises plus some Oly 2 days a week. So it's not really the program...and it's working.

Me too.

I had to take out the bench press for a while...and I replaced them w/ FS.

Awesome progress.

531 is a great program that fits anyone's style or methods imo.

Arien Malec
06-22-2010, 06:41 PM
Interesting that he says no front squats on the 5/3/1.

From the eBook:


Question: Can I use front squats instead of back squats for my big exercise? Answer: Yes.


So, um...

Kevin Perry
06-22-2010, 10:41 PM
I like the faq, as for the chins and pullups, he is basically saying to do them between the work sets? do some chins before the first exercise, do them in between sets and do them after? does that count towards the total volume?

Dave Van Skike
06-23-2010, 12:09 AM
From the eBook:



So, um...

things change.

personally, i think high reps front squats are a bad plan at high %'s. so the point of hitting as many reps as possible on the last set of each day kinda runs counter to that.

Alex Bond
06-23-2010, 12:14 AM
things change.

personally, i think high reps front squats are a bad plan at high %'s. so the point of hitting as many reps as possible on the last set of each day kinda runs counter to that.

Yeah, I'd do them as assistance. Maybe 3x3 across after deadlifting? Maybe somebody oly focused would want more FSing but many of us are going to be making most of our money with the back squat and deadlift anyways. I love doing FS, but I've always considered them a second-tier movement in importance.

Gant Grimes
06-23-2010, 10:32 AM
Front squats are not a foundational movement. Unless you're doing a lot of Olympic lifting, just adding them in every now and then will be fine. Singles, doubles, or triples fit the bill. I just doubled higher than my previous 1RM despite not having FS'd for months.

This is one of those times not to overthink stuff.

Garrett Smith
06-23-2010, 11:06 AM
Front squats are not a foundational movement. Unless you're doing a lot of Olympic lifting, just adding them in every now and then will be fine. Singles, doubles, or triples fit the bill. I just doubled higher than my previous 1RM despite not having FS'd for months.

This is one of those times not to overthink stuff.
As my goal right now centers around Oly, the FS fit the bill as a foundational movement. I am seriously considering keeping the AMRAP front squat sets for the "5" and "3" weeks at simply 5 and 3, respectively...and then going all-out on the 5/3/1 week (I typically get 2 or 3 that day).

With my long torso, my FS are currently only 20# less than my BS.

I simply thrive on the 5/3/1 routine. Maybe it's just the way my brain wraps around it--or should I say *doesn't* have to wrap around it.

Ola Persson
06-23-2010, 11:17 PM
I did front squats for five cycles but switched to back squats last month. Felt much better (high rep FS were awkward for the upper back muscles) and I have no intention weightlifting.

Another lesson learned from that Q&A:

Think about leaving at least 1 full rep in the tank (Jim always leaves 2-3)

The more time I spend under the bar the easier it is to know when to stop, though I have a tendency to boost my ego and go all out when I press.

Gant Grimes
06-24-2010, 07:50 AM
As my goal right now centers around Oly, the FS fit the bill as a foundational movement. I am seriously considering keeping the AMRAP front squat sets for the "5" and "3" weeks at simply 5 and 3, respectively...and then going all-out on the 5/3/1 week (I typically get 2 or 3 that day).

With my long torso, my FS are currently only 20# less than my BS.

I simply thrive on the 5/3/1 routine. Maybe it's just the way my brain wraps around it--or should I say *doesn't* have to wrap around it.

In that case you would be doing a 5x5 ascending (assuming you warm up), a 5x3 ascending, and a heavy double or triple. No problem there.

I can't believe the BS/FS differential. Mine's about 100 pounds (~330/430).

Garrett Smith
06-24-2010, 09:58 AM
In that case you would be doing a 5x5 ascending (assuming you warm up), a 5x3 ascending, and a heavy double or triple. No problem there.

I can't believe the BS/FS differential. Mine's about 100 pounds (~330/430).
Within the last ten days, my final sets of "5/3/1" week looked like this:
Front squat: 285# x 2
Back squat: 305# x 3

My short legs and long torso make for very vertical front squats, as well as a great backdrop for pitchers back when I was a baseball catcher.

Kevin Perry
07-18-2010, 05:34 PM
What rep ranges do you guys think is best for assistance work on squat and dead days? I was considering 10 sets of 3 or 5 sets of 3 for squats.

Dave Van Skike
07-18-2010, 07:20 PM
What rep ranges do you guys think is best for assistance work on squat and dead days? I was considering 10 sets of 3 or 5 sets of 3 for squats.

all of them. which is to say, it depends. where are you weak?

i like 8x3 pause squats because i need more stability at the bottom. i like sets of 10 for GMs. for DL I like sets of 5-8 on RDL's and more recently sets of 5 on narrow sumo DL. for everything else i like sets of 8-15 on DB and t bar rows, sets of 20 on hyper extensions with a band, leg curls with a band, hammer row and cable row machines

yes. that's right. machines.

so again. it depends.

Kevin Perry
07-19-2010, 05:33 AM
Well i need more work in the squat which is why I was looking at 10x3, i like good mornings for sets of 10 also thats become a staple exercise for me considering a weak lower back.

Dave Van Skike
07-19-2010, 09:12 AM
if you can do 10x3 with a decent weight, you're not going hard enough on your AMRAP top set of of squats, you're making a low volume relatively high intensity program into a volume program. it's not to say it can't work but you're mixing things that don't go. if you were doing say 10x3 light and snappy with a different kind of squat (say fronts) that might work better.

if you just need more work in the squat, why not do that? the 5 sets of 10 will groove the heck out of your squat with a tolerable weight.

the weakness for a lot of people with 531 is frequency, not volume. a lot of people just need more practice. you might have better luck, switching up to hit your squat assistance after your DL, i'd still not go as heavy as 10 sets of 3 but maybe 5x5 with a totally gettable weight, OR, try warming up every training day with a squat to a medium heavy single (80-85%) and make no other changes to the template. the goal should be to not compromise the good things about 531: all out sets, frequent rep PR's and good recovery between sessions.

Kevin Perry
07-19-2010, 01:20 PM
Ok yea, its not that I'm not going hard enough I'm coming off a bad recovery cycle and I want to hit my weaknesses the right way this time, I will definitely work squats into deadlift days but at 5x10 that means I should really go them at 40-60% right ? I need to also work in overhead squats on my squat day but I was going to do these before my squats at 3x5. That's for oly reasons its the only lift Besodes the squat that I need to work more.

Dave Van Skike
07-19-2010, 02:29 PM
Ok yea, its not that I'm not going hard enough I'm coming off a bad recovery cycle and I want to hit my weaknesses the right way this time, I will definitely work squats into deadlift days but at 5x10 that means I should really go them at 40-60% right ? I need to also work in overhead squats on my squat day but I was going to do these before my squats at 3x5. That's for oly reasons its the only lift Besodes the squat that I need to work more.


well that's just one idea that i've toyed with. the percents on the 5x10 or 10x5 squats are not really important, the goal is to finish them if that requires 30% of max do that.

i would really seriously consider what drives your main lift. what exactly is holding you back? it could be technique that's lacking , it could be bottom position weakness it could be stance, it could be hamstrings ........if overhead squats make really do make YOU a better squatter then by all means...but you totally need to know why a certain movement is there and believe that it will drive your lift. that and getting the work in on your main lifts are the big takeaway lessons of the book. i think if you focus very critically on "what" you should do for assistance, you'll figure out the how, pretty quickly.

Kevin Perry
07-19-2010, 03:22 PM
well that's just one idea that i've toyed with. the percents on the 5x10 or 10x5 squats are not really important, the goal is to finish them if that requires 30% of max do that.

i would really seriously consider what drives your main lift? what exactly is holding you back it could be technique that's lacking , it could be bottom position weakness it could be stance, it could be hamstrings ........if overhead squats make veally do YOU a better squatter than by all means but you totally need to know why a certain movement is there and believe that it will drive your lift. that and getting the work in on your main lifts are the big takeaway lessons of the book. i think if you focus very critically on "what" you should do for assistance, you'll figure out the how, pretty quickly.

Gotcha

That's why I'm adding in overhead squats: it drove up my snatch
I'm thinking just that, more squats will drive up the squats just want to go about it the right way, if thats the case then I'll stick with 5x10 but use lower percentages
Good mornings have also really improved my squats this year