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View Full Version : Crossfit/USA Weightlifting Hybrid Contest


Emily Mattes
07-11-2010, 02:56 AM
Say it ain't so . . . (http://weightlifting.teamusa.org/news/2010/07/08/inaugural-crossfit-usa-weightlifting-open-comes-to-colorado-springs-oct-1-3/37121?ngb_id=34)

Is this a joke?

Daniel Gam
07-11-2010, 06:03 AM
my guess is that for better or for worse CF has already far exceeded weightlifting in popularity and numbers (plus CF is relatively weightlifting friendly and a lot of the top lifters in the states lift out of CF gyms) so USAW is teaming up with them to increase their own growth and exposure. they even got eleiko to team up with them.

Emily Mattes
07-11-2010, 06:45 AM
my guess is that for better or for worse CF has already far exceeded weightlifting in popularity and numbers (plus CF is relatively weightlifting friendly and a lot of the top lifters in the states lift out of CF gyms) so USAW is teaming up with them to increase their own growth and exposure. they even got eleiko to team up with them.

Well, yeah. They're hoping to draw Crossfitters into weightlifting, and I think that's a worthy pursuit. But this seems like the worst possible way to do it--all this does is water down the nature of weightlifting meets and create the impression the best way to train Oly lifters is Fran. Why not create a formalized system for linking coaches with affiliates--as has already been succeeding on a grassroots level? Or a series of introductory meets, strictly for new lifters with maybe an intro session held before them to explain the rules of meets and the basic principles behind warm-ups and opening attempts, and heavily advertise these to affiliates?

Should rugby leagues looking for increased membership change the rules of the sport to appeal to lovers of American football? Should mathematics departments looking to increase their number of undergrad majors remove calculus requirements? There are ways to market without compromising the fundamental integrity of your sport . . . But maybe USAW is so damn desperate they'll worship whatever golden calf that appears.

Patrick Donnelly
07-11-2010, 08:41 AM
The event will join weightlifting one of the oldest Olympic sports with CrossFit one of the most popular strength and conditioning programs in the nation that combines weightlifting, sprinting and gymnastics.
Reading that made me nauseous.

Joe Cavazos
07-11-2010, 08:53 AM
Well, yeah. They're hoping to draw Crossfitters into weightlifting, and I think that's a worthy pursuit. But this seems like the worst possible way to do it--all this does is water down the nature of weightlifting meets and create the impression the best way to train Oly lifters is Fran. Why not create a formalized system for linking coaches with affiliates--as has already been succeeding on a grassroots level? Or a series of introductory meets, strictly for new lifters with maybe an intro session held before them to explain the rules of meets and the basic principles behind warm-ups and opening attempts, and heavily advertise these to affiliates?

Should rugby leagues looking for increased membership change the rules of the sport to appeal to lovers of American football? Should mathematics departments looking to increase their number of undergrad majors remove calculus requirements? There are ways to market without compromising the fundamental integrity of your sport . . . But maybe USAW is so damn desperate they'll worship whatever golden calf that appears.

Yeah. I can't believe USAW would stoop so low as to modify their competition format to only include the Clean and Jerk (with no rules but ground-to-overhead) followed by a 5K run, then followed by as many Handstand Push-ups in 30 minutes as possible. It's a traveshamockery.

Oh? It's a normal weightlifting meet followed by an o-lift themed CF-style metcon? What I'm really angry about is USAW's association with CrossFit, the Hitler of exercise websites? Well, my butt's still hurt and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

Patrick Donnelly
07-11-2010, 09:24 AM
What I'm really angry about is USAW's association with CrossFit, the Hitler of exercise websites?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rZHK-Ub544

Garrett Smith
07-11-2010, 09:06 PM
Only CFers will care about this competition.

IF a true OLer gets a bug up their butt long enough to learn super-light fast-turnover cleans, a decent kipping pull-up, and double-unders (not really hard moves for someone talented enough to be a high-level OLer), then they will likely clean house and this competition will never happen again.

See Donnie Shankle.

Geoffrey Thompson
07-12-2010, 07:11 AM
I've posted my views on this atrocity elsewhere. I think it's silly and I do not think it is any benefit to USAW. There are a lot of better ways USAW and CrossFit, Inc. can be mutually beneficial. Take, for instance, the meet John Broz is putting on - that's a good example of synergy. It's a sanctioned meet running alongside an unsanctioned meet for CrossFitters and other beginners.

Andrew Wilson
07-12-2010, 11:04 AM
IF a true OLer gets a bug up their butt long enough to learn super-light fast-turnover cleans, a decent kipping pull-up, and double-unders (not really hard moves for someone talented enough to be a high-level OLer), then they will likely clean house and this competition will never happen again.


And everything that is CrossFit and the "methodology" of GG will be completely disproved. They'll be less fit, less strong, and less skilled if they lose each event to oly guys; this has some spectacular repercussions. I think this where people aren't thinking this through, if the CrossFitters get out performed in the wod and out lifted by oly guys it's potentially going to be the silver bullet for CrossFit or at least a clear example of a least effective way to train people, and whatever "programming" the CrossFit athletes followed leading up to the event, it's for the first time going to be shown as ineffective. This is the actual evidence based test that CrossFit has been avoiding all this time, interesting chit ladies and gentlemen

Allen Yeh
07-12-2010, 11:25 AM
70s big Take on it...
http://www.70sbig.com/?p=2212

My take:

Silly

Kevin Perry
07-12-2010, 12:33 PM
I guess this explains why my coach mentioned a group of @Fitter's from Spartantown that want to come down to byrnes and learn to lift soon. uhg

Geoffrey Thompson
07-12-2010, 12:47 PM
Kevin - Don't worry, they're probably not prepping for this event. Quite fortunately, CF does encourage a lot of people to go out and learn to lift right.

Patrick Donnelly
07-12-2010, 06:34 PM
Kevin - Don't worry, they're probably not prepping for this event. Quite fortunately, CF does encourage a lot of people to go out and learn to lift right.

No, they don't: 20% slop.


I also do a bit of weightlifting coaching myself, just to help newbies get into the sport, but half of the people I've had come to me have been CrossFitters who only want to learn the Olympic lifts to improve their cardio workout times. They never come for more than 3-4hrs of coaching, because that's about how long it takes them to realize that they aren't going to learn the lifts properly unless they actually become weightlifters.

Shane Skowron
07-12-2010, 07:53 PM
They never come for more than 3-4hrs of coaching, because that's about how long it takes them to realize that they aren't going to learn the lifts properly unless they actually become weightlifters.



You need to become a weightlifter to learn how to lift properly? :confused:
When does one "become" a weightlifter?

James Evans
07-13-2010, 02:42 AM
No, they don't: 20% slop.


I also do a bit of weightlifting coaching myself, just to help newbies get into the sport, but half of the people I've had come to me have been CrossFitters who only want to learn the Olympic lifts to improve their cardio workout times. They never come for more than 3-4hrs of coaching, because that's about how long it takes them to realize that they aren't going to learn the lifts properly unless they actually become weightlifters.

Ok, the meet is absolutely retarded.

BUT how many people on this forum alone developed an interest in weightlifting through their exposure to CrossFit?

I'm no apologist for the Couch but let's take a step back here.

Geoffrey Thompson
07-13-2010, 06:52 AM
No, they don't: 20% slop.
Well, yes and no. A lot of CrossFit Coaches (TM) do want people to learn right and have definitely fostered an interest in proper OL form. But, yes, you are right, they encourage a lot of crap form. Take, for instance, the official rules of their max snatch events in competition. Basically, the only thing you can't do is rest it on your shoulders and do another dip and drive... Then again, it's not a good idea for me to disagree with you, as you have actual experience coaching CrossFitters on their OL form.

Ugh, improving OL form so you can get a better result on conditioning workouts. That's sick. And wrong. The way to rock Isabel is to have a >100kg snatch. In fact, you shouldn't even consider doing it unless you have a >100kg snatch.

But, I agree with James. Though I've never been an @Fitter, I did discover the barbell lifts through @Fit. Since OL is one of my interests, though I'm not good at it, they are definitely to blame for my interest in proper OL form. The Burgener videos on their site were the first instruction I had on the snatch and clean and jerk.

Garrett Smith
07-13-2010, 08:47 AM
You need to become a weightlifter to learn how to lift properly? :confused:
When does one "become" a weightlifter?
A weightlifter would do the OLs regularly...and do them properly--as in, low reps while focusing on form, because crap form creates a nearly impenetrable ceiling to increasing their max.

One would become a weightlifter about the time they become an insect...when their program is planned out and has a good portion devoted to the OLs on a weekly basis.

JMO.

I also teach OLs to CFers. I was asked to do this because the "OLs" showing up in timed WODs, according to the affiliate, doesn't give people any opportunity to improve their form. I've been told that my six hours of instruction have made noticeable differences in both form and time in high-rep OL-based metcons. FWIW.

Patrick Donnelly
07-13-2010, 09:22 AM
A weightlifter would do the OLs regularly...and do them properly--as in, low reps while focusing on form, because crap form creates a nearly impenetrable ceiling to increasing their max.

One would become a weightlifter about the time they become an insect...when their program is planned out and has a good portion devoted to the OLs on a weekly basis.

JMO.

This. And competing is definitely a bonus.

Shane Skowron
07-13-2010, 12:12 PM
A weightlifter would do the OLs regularly...and do them properly--as in, low reps while focusing on form, because crap form creates a nearly impenetrable ceiling to increasing their max.

One would become a weightlifter about the time they become an insect...when their program is planned out and has a good portion devoted to the OLs on a weekly basis.

JMO.

I also teach OLs to CFers. I was asked to do this because the "OLs" showing up in timed WODs, according to the affiliate, doesn't give people any opportunity to improve their form. I've been told that my six hours of instruction have made noticeable differences in both form and time in high-rep OL-based metcons. FWIW.


So what about sprinters, jumpers, and other athletes who use Oly lifts to train for their sport? Does this mean they can't learn the lifts properly unless they start becoming weightlifters?

Stephen Flamm
07-13-2010, 12:46 PM
I own a CrossFit affiliate, and we regularly include low-rep Oly work (not ground-to-overhead)) in our programming. Both my partner and I have followed Catalyst training cycles for anywhere from 3-6 months at a time to great gains. We have entered Oly competitions and will continue to do so.

This is a good opportunity for members of CrossFit gyms to get a taste of a real Oly competition with real judging and standards, even if that competition is one part of a greater event. I would bring my whole gym if this was closer to home.

On a side note, I have never personally met anyone though CF who would not thoroughly enjoy watching an elite Oly lifter out-lift the field and proceed to crush the "Triplet".

Andrew Wilson
07-13-2010, 01:42 PM
I own a CrossFit affiliate, and we regularly include low-rep Oly work (not ground-to-overhead)) in our programming. Both my partner and I have followed Catalyst training cycles for anywhere from 3-6 months at a time to great gains. We have entered Oly competitions and will continue to do so.

This is a good opportunity for members of CrossFit gyms to get a taste of a real Oly competition with real judging and standards, even if that competition is one part of a greater event. I would bring my whole gym if this was closer to home.

On a side note, I have never personally met anyone though CF who would not thoroughly enjoy watching an elite Oly lifter out-lift the field and proceed to crush the "Triplet".

I 2nd this. I've really seen the same in few local affiliates that are really smart and good, the main programming being oly, with "metcons" alternating on days. So just to remind people, not all CF affiliates are douchey as they're sold to be on the INTRA NET.

Geoffrey Thompson
07-13-2010, 02:15 PM
So what about sprinters, jumpers, and other athletes who use Oly lifts to train for their sport? Does this mean they can't learn the lifts properly unless they start becoming weightlifters?

They typically use the lifts at least once a week, which is all he seems to be demanding. Often they only do power variants, which are much less demanding of technique. Compare, however, to typical CF-style programming, which might have them pop up every couple weeks in something like the triplet in this competition. You can't learn the lifts if that's all you're doing. I think that's what he's saying.

Gant Grimes
07-13-2010, 03:03 PM
I've worn this out on 70sBig, but here is my main problem with it:

"My beef is gerrymandering your way onto the podium.

USAW is hard up for cash and lifters. They want to draw from the CF community. Fine. Put on a meet that is FREE for everybody that buys a USAW card. Let the CFers lift in a real WL event with real WLers. The real lifters won't start until the CFers are done, so the newbies can watch the pros do their thing.

After the meet, have a 2-hour clinic with a resident coach and a resident athlete or two and then a happy hour mixer where everyone gets to talk over food and drink. Eleiko would pay for the whole damn thing because they could sell $10K in training bars and plates that afternoon (hell, CFers bought a monolift).

This wouldn't cost the USAW anything but time. They'd get exposure, and their athletes could develop a following (every CFer knows Sage, Casey, and Natalie Woolfolk). USAW blew it.

Everyone who competes in WL knows that your first few meets are all about watching and learning from experienced lifters. CF athletes won't get to do this because the format will keep the real lifters away.

The only groups that will gain from this are Eleiko and CF, Inc."

Garrett Smith
07-13-2010, 09:25 PM
So what about sprinters, jumpers, and other athletes who use Oly lifts to train for their sport? Does this mean they can't learn the lifts properly unless they start becoming weightlifters?
Well, I could always fall back on the definition that triathletes used when I was into that.

After not competing in triathlons for one year, then one wasn't considered a triathlete anymore. The same could easily be said for weightlifters...as opposed to those simply using the WLs in their training.

In terms of learning the lifts properly, that takes devoted time and effort. Doing the Burgener warm-up with PVC before a metcon? No.

I really equate a snatch to something like a golf swing (with a crapload of weight). It is most important that it is done correctly and consistently. Take from that analogy what you will--and note I distinctly dislike golf for completely different reasons.

Geoffrey Thompson
07-14-2010, 07:38 AM
Dammit, this makes me as mad as the new Star Wars trilogy does (not the initial anger, the residual anger I still have to this day). WHY, GEORGE LUCAS, WHY? Fortunately, this will fade out of my consciousness quite soon, but I'm surprised it has gotten to me so much in the short term. I have a LOT of residual hatred for the new trilogy (and the changes to the old trilogy).

Shane Skowron
07-14-2010, 07:45 AM
Well, I could always fall back on the definition that triathletes used when I was into that.

After not competing in triathlons for one year, then one wasn't considered a triathlete anymore. The same could easily be said for weightlifters...as opposed to those simply using the WLs in their training.

In terms of learning the lifts properly, that takes devoted time and effort. Doing the Burgener warm-up with PVC before a metcon? No.

I really equate a snatch to something like a golf swing (with a crapload of weight). It is most important that it is done correctly and consistently. Take from that analogy what you will--and note I distinctly dislike golf for completely different reasons.

Well, I've been training OL 3x a week with a highly reputed coach. I'd like to think that I've been learning the lifts seeing as my technique and my weights have improved steadily, but I don't consider myself a weightlifter.

Garrett Smith
07-14-2010, 09:01 AM
Well, I've been training OL 3x a week with a highly reputed coach. I'd like to think that I've been learning the lifts seeing as my technique and my weights have improved steadily, but I don't consider myself a weightlifter.
If you aren't competing and don't plan on competing, I don't think you're in much danger of being referred to as a weightlifter.

Steve Shafley
07-14-2010, 07:57 PM
I really waffle between agreeing with Gant and not giving a damn.

The USAW is similar to most olympic sport governing bodies in the US. It's a slow, somewhat corrupt, old boys club desperately trying to hold onto the good old days that are now 40+ years in the past.

Unwilling to take the steps necessary to re-popularize the sport. Crossfit must seem like a cash cow and a savior to them, if they can just close their eyes and think of Bob Bednarski.

James Evans
07-15-2010, 04:29 AM
I think a large number of Couchites would benefit from attempting to emulate the efforts of this woman:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/wrestling/8822737.stm

without tacking on a triplet of double unders, virtual shovelling and thrusters to every game of softball they participate in.

Learn and participate in new sports anyone?

Garrett Smith
07-15-2010, 06:24 AM
Learn and participate in new sports anyone?
This is one of the best lines to come out of CF, and sadly, the most ignored.

Gant Grimes
07-16-2010, 02:18 AM
I really waffle between agreeing with Gant and not giving a damn.

People arrive here right before they hit rock bottom. Things should be looking up for you soon.

Grissim Connery
07-19-2010, 11:30 AM
Dammit, this makes me as mad as the new Star Wars trilogy does (not the initial anger, the residual anger I still have to this day). WHY, GEORGE LUCAS, WHY? Fortunately, this will fade out of my consciousness quite soon, but I'm surprised it has gotten to me so much in the short term. I have a LOT of residual hatred for the new trilogy (and the changes to the old trilogy).

woah, woah, let's keep this civil


I really equate a snatch to something like a golf swing (with a crapload of weight). It is most important that it is done correctly and consistently. Take from that analogy what you will--and note I distinctly dislike golf for completely different reasons.

i'm curious about that reason. i don't really play them, but there's always been something fascinating to me about precision sports. the sheer fact that you can eat a cheeseburger during golf, bowling, darts, pool, etc. is something to be appreciated. i'm not sure on what level though...

Back to the main topic, i'm kinda waiting for a UFC effect to happen. if you think about when it first started, everybody came in with whatever fighting styles, and after some years it boiled down to just a few main ones dominating the scene.

although now it seems that the people who dominate have blended these main styles together, people most likely come from one primary background, whether it be boxing or wrestling or BJJ or blah blah.

The guys who normally seem the most ill-prepared are the guys who just "train MMA" without thoroughly learning one style first. this now seems like training for crossfit because you're kinda trying to learn everything without having any solid basis to begin with.

thus solid pro WL or an olympic gymnast could probably come a rip through much of the CF competitions, especially after getting some basis in less familiar skills. the big difference though between CF and the UFC though is that i think being the best weightlifter or best gymnast has way more appeal than being the best CFer. thus they would most likely not switch over. meanwhile, being the UFC champ may be more appealing than being the champ in some fighting styles. thus more guys would probably switch over.


That judo/wrestling/rugby girl is a beast.

Danny Lehr
07-23-2010, 11:49 AM
First I want to make clear that I am a CF gym owner. With that being said, I think this is a good thing for USA weightlifting. There will surely be a lot of people competing in this that just needed an extra little push. This will seem like a less threateing environment perhaps. One thing that CF gets knocked for by a lot of people is the elitist attitude that too many people in the community exude. I feel like the response by some in the weightlifting community is in that same vein. Also, from what I understand the membership numbers for USA weightlifting are under 10,000 total. If this is the case, an increase in members surely will not hurt. The meet will be a regular weightlifting meet, followed by a 10 minute crossfit WOD. If a lifter wanted to get some platform time in, they could do the snatch, c & j, and then bounce out...no hard feelings.

Now that I got all that out, I must admit that I plan on competing. I've wanted to compete in an weighlifting event for a while, it just hasn't worked out. This fits into my schedule, so with some pressure from outside folks I'm going to do it. I also plan on competing in some O lifting only meets in the future. I will also admit that it would be easy for a weightlifter to wreck house. With good numbers on the lifts, 10 weeks is more than enough time to get a decent met con base. I've taught double-unders to 53 year old women in 20 minutes, and with athleticism and strength a good kipping pull-up will come within days. Anyway, if anyone wants some advice on how to get prepped for the met-con in 30 minutes a week, just let me know. I'd love to share it but I don't think anyone else cares.

Joe Hart
07-23-2010, 12:59 PM
i'm curious about that reason. i don't really play them, but there's always been something fascinating to me about precision sports. the sheer fact that you can eat a cheeseburger during golf, bowling, darts, pool, etc. is something to be appreciated. i'm not sure on what level though...

.

This is where you have strayed...You drink an ASSLOAD (We all know that is more than a shitload) of beer while playing these sports.

John Warkala
07-23-2010, 02:44 PM
i don't really play them, but there's always been something fascinating to me about precision sports. the sheer fact that you can eat a cheeseburger during golf, bowling, darts, pool, etc.

If you can eat a cheeseburger and drink a beer while competing, it's a game not a sport !