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Troy Kerr
07-21-2010, 06:36 PM
The BtGB book states that for the planche, one should not progress to the next progression until one can hold the current prog. for a total hold of 60 seconds. Not to disagree with sommers, but is a 60 second hold really necessary? I know you need to wait to build up the appropriate tendon/ligament strength, but I thought after 15 seconds one could progress to the next progression?

Grissim Connery
07-21-2010, 07:46 PM
Building the Gymnastics Body by Christopher Sommer, page 172

When you are capable of performing a static hold for longer than 15 seconds, you should proceed onward to the next harder variation; provided you can hold that new variation for at least three to five seconds. If you are unable to hold the next variation for three to five seconds, you should continue training with your current variation while experimenting with the new to begin to establish a foundation of familiarity from which to work the new variation from.

that's what mine says

Steven Low
07-21-2010, 08:29 PM
Dragondoor article says 60s.

Book says 15s.

Basically, it doesn't really matter.... as long as you can proceed to the next progression WITH GOOD FORM and hold it for 3-5s for at least 3 sets I would move up. The one caveat is that the next progression is not taxing your joints or tendons too much causing some form of overuse injury.

That's my take on statics at least... seems to agree with the book.

Donald Lee
07-21-2010, 08:33 PM
I think easier to harder progressions go from 60 sec to 15 sec or maybe even less.

Troy Kerr
07-21-2010, 09:12 PM
Yeah i actually saw a debate on this on the Gbody forums. Some ppl think that the 60 second hold means you have developed sufficient tendon & ligament strength to proceed onward. I agree more with the 15 second rule really.

Blair Lowe
07-21-2010, 10:52 PM
60s seems to be the consensus for the frogstand, straight arm frogstand, tuck planche, and advanced/flat back tuck planche. Same with the other levers. After that, it goes to the 15-20s.

Gary Ohm
07-26-2010, 08:46 AM
Boy, I'm totally confused... My book is at work, but the way I read it was once you can do four sets of 15 second holds (here's the 60 second mark) then you move to the next progression. I also thought that Coach was recommending a total of 60 seconds of holds per workout.

For example if I can only hold a certain technique for five seconds with good form, then I need to do 12 rounds of it to get 60 seconds. The workouts go much faster as you get better because the holds are longer and the set count goes down really quickly.

Donald Lee
07-26-2010, 09:01 AM
The book says to do 60 sec total per hold per session. At the end of a cycle, you test your max on the hold, and if you can do at least 15 seconds, then you move on to the next progression.

The online article says to move on to the next progression once you can do a 60 sec max hold.

Aaron Griffin
11-04-2010, 01:56 PM
If this is all based on Building the Gymnastic Body, there are some issues with the book. Apparently, the author never assumed that people reading the book would have no skills at all, so some of the basics weren't covered.

Here is the information that has been distilled from seminars, through the BtGB forums, into me.

Prereqs for everything: 60s Hollow Hold, Arch Hold, Supine Dead-Hang, Floor Support, Bar Support, Ring Support, and Front/Side/Back Gymnastic Planks (straight arms, not forearms). This should provide people with the BASE strength to get some initial tucks for the FSPs.

As for the FSPs themselves, the Steady State plan SHOULD use the 60s maximum for the initial steps. It's only in the later stages when 15s is enough to move on - for example, straddle levers and planche are ok at 15s.

Blair Lowe
11-06-2010, 09:07 PM
Aaron, that's not exactly all it by a longshot but you're on the right track. However, the devil is in the details.

To note, it was recently commented that Ido Portal was working 5-10 holds of 10-20s straddle planche when he could perform a straight body planche for 3-5 seconds. His words were volume simply put. It was something like that.

When your work sets are longer, it seems you can use shorter recovery periods as well. Big difference needed between a 3-5s hold and a 15s hold...when they are done at 50% of max hold. Different if it's a max hold.

The one caveat is that the next progression is not taxing your joints or tendons too much causing some form of overuse injury.

BINGO.

Gary Ohm
11-07-2010, 06:54 AM
I am constantly amazed at how confusing this is. I think I have it nailed down, then I read someone's paragraph and get confused again.

Any idea, Blair, when coach's next book is coming out? I've heard rumors that it is going to make lots of things clear to the layperson.

Grissim Connery
11-07-2010, 11:52 AM
I am constantly amazed at how confusing this is. I think I have it nailed down, then I read someone's paragraph and get confused again.


it's all just guidelines, nothing to get too confused over. basic idea is that if you're seeing progress, keep doing what you're doing. if not, then maybe you should try following somebody else's recommendations until it clicks.

Steven Low
11-07-2010, 01:36 PM
I am constantly amazed at how confusing this is. I think I have it nailed down, then I read someone's paragraph and get confused again.

Any idea, Blair, when coach's next book is coming out? I've heard rumors that it is going to make lots of things clear to the layperson.

I'm writing up some programming stuff too.

It's really not hard.... like Grissim said. Progress is generally what you're aiming for.

Gary Ohm
11-07-2010, 01:52 PM
I'm writing up some programming stuff too.

It's really not hard.... like Grissim said. Progress is generally what you're aiming for.

Thanks Steve and Grissim. I think I am making progress, but when trying to hold my program changes to less than once every six weeks on the holds, it's hard to know if you are getting steady progress.

I am looking forward to your programming Steven, I'll keep an eye out for it.

Blair Lowe
11-09-2010, 01:19 PM
As for Coach Sommer's book, there are no deadlines. It's like any video game, it'll be out when it's out or done. It's been said not to ask or just to stop asking.

The whole reason for the long cycle is overload,load,underload when using the StaticStateCycle. It's trying to not just end up crashing and burning and it's more about developing connective tissue strength than just the muscle.