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Simon Jacobsson
08-01-2010, 06:11 AM
Below is a video of me doing a Clean.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuDjleV6kwE

I've posted this in a few other forums to get as much feedback as possible.

As you can see I'm pretty much hip thrusting the bar up which makes the bar path a loop and around. This of course limits how much I can lift as it gets heavier. I've been working on not thrusting the bar for almost a week straight now, but it still feels hard and I can't really seem to get it right. The video was filmed a couple of days ago.

I've tried reintroducing the vertical jump with and without the bar to get that real double knee bend and vertical path. With a wooden stick I can get it to brush my upper thighs, but when adding a bar it still bounces of just after initiating the jump/double knee bend.

Really need help and all the cues and suggestions I can get to fix the bar path.

Thanks,
Simon

Jacob Rowell
08-01-2010, 09:55 AM
As you're already aware, you're getting full hip extension, yet lazy/incomplete knee extension.

A couple things I have tried with folks in your situation is working the vertical jump, as you've already tried. I like thinking about driving my feet through the ground. Another way to attack it is to simply think about staying on your heels longer. A consequence of your incomplete knee extension is the weight shifting onto your toes. In some cases, working on the effect of the problem, rather than the problem itself, will fix things just as well.

Depends on the trainee and the situation.

Simon Jacobsson
08-01-2010, 10:29 AM
As you're already aware, you're getting full hip extension, yet lazy/incomplete knee extension.

A couple things I have tried with folks in your situation is working the vertical jump, as you've already tried. I like thinking about driving my feet through the ground. Another way to attack it is to simply think about staying on your heels longer. A consequence of your incomplete knee extension is the weight shifting onto your toes. In some cases, working on the effect of the problem, rather than the problem itself, will fix things just as well.

Depends on the trainee and the situation.

Thanks for the answer. :)

Do you think "heel jumps" could be a good drill to introduce the correct feeling for fixing the problem or any other ones?

Andrew Wilson
08-01-2010, 11:02 AM
Thanks for the answer. :)

Do you think "heel jumps" could be a good drill to introduce the correct feeling for fixing the problem or any other ones?

Yes! the main issue is after you hit the power position (bar at mid thigh) you jump/extend onto your toes. and whenever you raise onto your toes in any position your lower body will move more forward from its original position, and your upper body will have compensate by bending, leaning, or bowing backwards to pull the bar back into your body. so your body will morph into this Bow or "D" and that'll cause the hip thrust. and you can easily see it in this video because there's a point where your face is directly looking up at the ceiling dimas style. and your bar path immediately and dramatially changes forward after you hit the power position and when you first raise onto your toes. so the best thing to do is continue with the vertical jump idea, but do so flat footed / jumping without ankle extension. this will take out the forward movement and the compensation. once you hit your first clean this way you'll notice the immediate release of momentum in the 3rd pull rather this dragging extension through ankle extension.

Simon Jacobsson
08-01-2010, 11:16 AM
Yes! the main issue is after you hit the power position (bar at mid thigh) you jump/extend onto your toes. and whenever you raise onto your toes in any position your lower body will move more forward from its original position, and your upper body will have compensate by bending, leaning, or bowing backwards to pull the bar back into your body. so your body will morph into this Bow or "D" and that'll cause the hip thrust. and you can easily see it in this video because there's a point where your face is directly looking up at the ceiling dimas style. and your bar path immediately and dramatially changes forward after you hit the power position and when you first raise onto your toes. so the best thing to do is continue with the vertical jump idea, but do so flat footed / jumping without ankle extension. this will take out the forward movement and the compensation. once you hit your first clean this way you'll notice the immediate release of momentum in the 3rd pull rather this dragging extension through ankle extension.

Very, very good explanation!! Thank you. It really makes a lot of sense. Will start working on it immediately tomorrow.

I use to try jumping through the heels, but I guess I shifted the hips forward rather then concentrating on driving the heels through the floor. I've also had problems with my elbows bending back rather then up and to the sides. Started working on this but still the bar went forward. It makes more sense now why. :)

Shane Skowron
08-01-2010, 12:20 PM
The front squat portion looked super awkward. I think you should work on your front squat technique at a slightly lower weight.

Simon Jacobsson
08-01-2010, 12:27 PM
The front squat portion looked super awkward. I think you should work on your front squat technique at a slightly lower weight.

I've front squatted about 40kg more than that. I don't think the problem lies in the front squat, but rather in the forward bar path which forces me to catch the bar forward making it look awkward.

Simon Jacobsson
08-02-2010, 03:59 AM
So I've worked on jumping through the heels, but still the bar bumps away. I tried comparing what a heel jump looked like without the bar to how it looks with it, and it seems like my hips travel forward and slight downwards without the bar. But as soon as I'm jumping with a bar the hips travel forward and not as much downwards.

I'm also getting more double knee bend without the bar than with it.


Here's a link to todays heel jump.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdb_JI5i2v8


I was thinking the problem might be tight elbows, but as you can see the elbows hasn't really had a chance to bend when the bar is already traveling forward.

I really need to learn to scoop the hips down and forward so the bar can brush the thighs and travel up rather than just forward.

Any suggestions?.. This is getting a bit frustrating. :confused:

Andrew Wilson
08-02-2010, 10:27 PM
So I've worked on jumping through the heels, but still the bar bumps away. I tried comparing what a heel jump looked like without the bar to how it looks with it, and it seems like my hips travel forward and slight downwards without the bar. But as soon as I'm jumping with a bar the hips travel forward and not as much downwards.

I'm also getting more double knee bend without the bar than with it.


Here's a link to todays heel jump.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdb_JI5i2v8


I was thinking the problem might be tight elbows, but as you can see the elbows hasn't really had a chance to bend when the bar is already traveling forward.

I really need to learn to scoop the hips down and forward so the bar can brush the thighs and travel up rather than just forward.

Any suggestions?.. This is getting a bit frustrating. :confused:

Yeah you're still throwing those hips in. The best way to think about it, because there's way too much wrong information out about oly technique and it really over complicates things and easy frustrates, is:

What's the best way for the human body to generate the most force possible and as fast as possible? Jumping. So that's pretty much what all oly lifting is is jumping; and you're adding weight to the jump by holding a bar. To increase the height of your body jump, you add more weight to increase the force of the jump. So with that said, in your videos you are not really jumping but hip thrusting, more than likely mimicing someone. So to help the frustration is to think about it this way , just jumping with different hand spacing on the bar (snatch/cl). Now, what is the best position for the human body to generate that maximum jump? The power position, which is say you were going to do a vertical jump, and you are going to jump as high as possible, you're standing tall and you start half squatting down before you lift off, but you go down in super slow motion. The point where you half squat the deepest, like in a basket ball tip off, is the power position, or what alot of people call "bar at the mid thigh" or "bar at pockets" or 2nd pull, or pretty much what you're doing in the new video. But in the new video you're really just throwing horizontal force into the bar. Instead 1) vertical jump without the bar, jump AS HIGH AS possible, 2) then jump as high as possible without the bar BUT without ankle extending, and you'll see yourself levitate up 4 inches with feet still flat like they were still on the ground. it looks like you levitate up and down. 3) after doing this 10-20 times just simply hold onto a bar loosely and do it again, and you have yourself a hang clean or hang snatch depending on hand spacing. the big key though, is that by not extending onto your toes, you're body will not tilt or bend and the bar will immediately jolt up in a straight line, and this is the most efficient way to resist gravity for the bar. by raising onto your toes the above post will happen + the tilting which will add angled force, that'll turn body mass + bar mass into a V, the body force will go "/" (leaning back) and equal and opposite force will go "\" (bar path) so the bar path will fly forward, because your arms are still attached it will come back to you to form an arch or you'll jump forward. this is something you'll see in alot of American lifters with bad snatches compared to cj or international field, because they all over extend onto their toes and torso hyper bend back at the top. or in another way to think out it, what's a more efficient vertical jump to reach maximum height? jump angled backwards, angled forwards, or straight up and down? straight up and down but to do so you cut out the directional flipper (swimming), the ankle extension.

I pretty much over killed this. 1), 2), 3) will really fix the problem. then the 1st pull is just about putting the bar into the power position, which is from the ground, simply extend knees till your shins are 90 degrees, this will clear the path, extending past 90 degrees loses leverage, like a wrench. then you just raise back up a little bit, bar is then in the power position, and then just jump.

Simon Jacobsson
08-03-2010, 02:42 AM
Wow, that was some effort you put in there to write all that :D

I'll try that today along with some other methods I've discovered and we'll see where it goes.

Thanks,
Simon