PDA

View Full Version : Who deadlifts in WL shoes?


Joe Hart
09-03-2010, 01:46 PM
I have found that my set up (keeping back tight) for DL is better in WL shoes than wrestling shoes. Anyone run into problems wearing WL shoes for DL?

I get that I will be pulling farther in WL shoes, but I would rather not screw myself up DLn by not being tight. Side note I have been DLn on my own haven't had a coach. I also gave myself a hernia pulling 315 when I was 16. Got it up but felt a little squishy feeling round the biscuits. So I have that memory lurking in my mind probably screwing me up in some fashion.

So I am open to any pointers.

Thanks

Kevin Perry
09-03-2010, 04:45 PM
I think most here dl and do most of their lifting in WL shoes. You will lift a lil higher but not much depending on the shoe cause each brand has different heel heights. Remember that WL have that solid sole along the bottom and not the squishy sole most shoes have so it's more stable. Not sure what to tell you on the hernia thing.

Derek Weaver
09-03-2010, 05:51 PM
First, you are a brave person. I've been lucky enough to avoid a hernia in my lifetime (knock on wood), but had I don't a lift or sport that caused a 'squishy feeling around the biscuits', I wouldn't ever do it again. So, good for you that you've got guts.

Second, is that I stopped pulling in my WL shoes altogether a long time ago when I was still kinda strong. I was using VS Athletic shoes based on a recommendation I had seen from Rip somewhere on the web. The higher heel height had an adverse effect on my set up, and the length of the pull.

I prefer to pull in either Vibramzzzz, barefoot or my Nike Free's if I absolutely have to wear a cross trainer.

When you say the shoes help you stay tight... I guess I don't really get that.

Garrett Smith
09-03-2010, 05:57 PM
I DL in my Vibrams too, but I'm sumo stylee. Everything else (save box squats in my sumo stance) are in my OL shoes.

Joe Hart
09-03-2010, 06:22 PM
I have tried setting up in flat shoes the way Rip talks about and I don't really feel any tension in my back.

When I use WL shoes and try the same thing it feels like my back is ready. Yes its weird. I suspect if I find a coach that can help me with my DL that would probably help.

Kevin Perry
09-03-2010, 07:55 PM
I've never tried lifting in vibrams or barefoot though I've heard It's better health wise or injury prevention wise I guess is better to say. I'm afraid of dropping the weight on my feet.

Derek Weaver
09-03-2010, 09:08 PM
I've never tried lifting in vibrams or barefoot though I've heard It's better health wise or injury prevention wise I guess is better to say. I'm afraid of dropping the weight on my feet.

I don't get the part that's bolded. Well, I think I may get it, but I'm not sure. Not calling you out, but I'm a little confused and wouldn't mind a little more information here.

As far as I know, the purpose for pulling barefoot, or in wrestling shoes is to enable you to sit back a bit more and reduce the distance of the pull.

Kevin Perry
09-03-2010, 09:42 PM
just what i've heard some others say, i don't know if it's true.

I've only ever pulled in WL shoes.

Derek Weaver
09-03-2010, 09:51 PM
Hmmm. I could see how the slight shift forward may add a little more torque to the lower back.... Maybe a touch more stress on the knees? Both of these are 100% guesses.

I'm interested in this now.

Joe Hart
09-03-2010, 10:02 PM
Okay so this is the link that spurred my line of questioning.


http://www.70sbig.com/?p=1066


It doesn't really cover the no heel, socks area of DL. I would like to try a lower heeld WL shoe just to see the difference. I have a pair of Adistars with the three straps and the heel seems pretty high on it, but I really have nothing to compare it too (so just my opinion)

I am not sure where you would start and stop when measuring, if you wanted to know heel height.

Donald Lee
09-04-2010, 08:58 AM
Okay so this is the link that spurred my line of questioning.


http://www.70sbig.com/?p=1066


It doesn't really cover the no heel, socks area of DL. I would like to try a lower heeld WL shoe just to see the difference. I have a pair of Adistars with the three straps and the heel seems pretty high on it, but I really have nothing to compare it too (so just my opinion)

I am not sure where you would start and stop when measuring, if you wanted to know heel height.

I find Justin's argument entirely uncompelling. It sounds like broscience, mixed with big words, mixed with I know what I'm doing, mixed with appealing to Rip for authority.

I could be wrong here, but I don't think people really deadlift to totally balance out muscle groups and to recruit more musle groups. I think most people know that no matter how you deadlift, you're still working the hamstrings, quads, etc. People just want to deadlift more weight, as long as they don't hurt themselves in the process.

I have deadlifted in squishy shoes, WL shoes, Chuck Taylors, and Vibrams. I prefer the Chuck Taylors for myself.

Certain styles of pulling lend better to lifting in WL shoes. Put simply, if you use more quads in your pull, you'll probably not be as adversely affected by pulling in WL shoes.

But, I don't find any compelling reason why WL shoes would be the preferred choice for DLing.

Eric Cressey mentions briefly about deadlifting barefoot in this article:

http://ericcressey.com/flat-feet-and-hypermobile-okay-for-barefoot-training

Jon Sikes
09-07-2010, 07:16 AM
I find Justin's argument entirely uncompelling. It sounds like broscience, mixed with big words, mixed with I know what I'm doing, mixed with appealing to Rip for authority.

I could be wrong here, but I don't think people really deadlift to totally balance out muscle groups and to recruit more musle groups. I think most people know that no matter how you deadlift, you're still working the hamstrings, quads, etc. People just want to deadlift more weight, as long as they don't hurt themselves in the process.

I have deadlifted in squishy shoes, WL shoes, Chuck Taylors, and Vibrams. I prefer the Chuck Taylors for myself.

Certain styles of pulling lend better to lifting in WL shoes. Put simply, if you use more quads in your pull, you'll probably not be as adversely affected by pulling in WL shoes.

But, I don't find any compelling reason why WL shoes would be the preferred choice for DLing.

Eric Cressey mentions briefly about deadlifting barefoot in this article:

http://ericcressey.com/flat-feet-and-hypermobile-okay-for-barefoot-training

I prefer pulling in my WL shoes. The stability and, as Donald said, more quad in the pull suits me.

It always feels worse when I go from the WL shoes to something else. I suppose the ROM is longer with the WL shoes, but, just as an experiment to confirm my past experience, I tried pulling in other shoes this weekend and even my warmups felt much harder than usual.

Geoffrey Thompson
09-07-2010, 08:42 AM
I DL in WL shoes, but that's because I do all my lifting in WL shoes, have a quad-ish pull off the floor, and am sort of more into deadlifting to improve strength for WL (well, deadlifting to get really strong, and occasionally hoping to throw my hat in the ring at weightlifting). I'm going to try out the flat sole or barefoot pull in the future, though, just because I can.

Jay Cohen
09-07-2010, 09:11 AM
Had my VS Athletic heal cut down, pulled DL's for a year, felt OK, switched to barefoot, then my Vibram KSO's about two months ago, feels somewhat more stable as my foot really feels "flat" to the floor, vs the slight lift with WL shoes.

BTW, I did drop a plate "2.5" lb'r on my big toe two years ago, major ouch. Now very mindful when handling the plates.

Brian M Smith
09-07-2010, 09:14 AM
I've pulled in both my WL shoes and barefoot. kind of prefer barefoot to be honest.

Higher heel of the WL shoes throws off my form I think. I don't really DL anymore though cause it messes up my clean form, so who knows.

Gant Grimes
09-07-2010, 09:20 AM
I used to be a barefoot puller. Then one day I forgot to take my Do Wins (really high heel) off before pulling. I like it better. My usual pulling shoe is my cut-down VS (like Jay's).

This is one of those things that doesn't need much thought. Try pulling barefoot, with Chuck's, with WL shoes, with moon boots, and with whatever the hell else you have lying around. Whatever feels best...that's what you should use.






Vibrams. LOL.

Derek Weaver
09-07-2010, 10:43 AM
Jay and Gant. How much did you have your VS Athletics cut down? Did you do that yourself or take it to a shop to be done? If you did do it yourselves.... how?

Gant Grimes
09-07-2010, 12:36 PM
Took them to the shop. He cut it down a good bit, probably more than he should have. I'll measure tomorrow and get back to you.

Derek Weaver
09-07-2010, 01:58 PM
Cool. I appreciate it.

May be required to lift at a commercial gym again and footwear would be required.

Robert Callahan
09-07-2010, 08:15 PM
A lot of it depends on anthropometry also. For example, in my case, when the lifter has long femurs, long torso, short arms then they are going to have a very horizontal back angle when pulling. WL shoes will simply exacerbate this problem. This is why I personally have abandoned WL shoes for DL to much success.

If on the other hand though, you have a lifter with short femurs, short torso, and monkey arms then they can stand to lose a few degrees of back angle since they are practically upright already. In this case the shoes may help with stability, or even put them in a better place to pull from. Either way WL shoes while DLing will be much more comfortable in this case.

I also agree with the Quad dominance thing and find people with shorter femurs tend to have an easier time being quad dominant since they have better leverage over the knee/hips.

Bottom line though, whatever makes you happy :)

Jay Cohen
09-09-2010, 09:26 AM
Jay and Gant. How much did you have your VS Athletics cut down? Did you do that yourself or take it to a shop to be done? If you did do it yourselves.... how?

I'll measure tonight, but it was at least 1/2 inch. This was based on Rips suggestion. Took to shoemaker.

Black solid part of shoe now measures about 3/4 inch. Shoe maker removed rubber sole, ground down the wooden heal platform, re glued the rubber sole back on. Works nice, though I'm only using the shoes for Squats, all other work done in KSO's.

Duke McCall
09-09-2010, 12:48 PM
I am not sure I will ever be able to DL again.

My doctor told me a couple of years ago that I have a small inguinal hernia and eventually may need surgery. Being a stubborn SOB, I elected to ignore the issue and keeping lifting whatever I darn well pleased. Now, you come along and mention getting all squishy around the bisquits. . . .

I wish I could banish that image from my mind, but I may forever more be a coward.

Justin Algera
09-14-2010, 09:59 AM
Pull in my Chucks... I feel so out of whack trying to pull in my WL shoes that I can barely get anything over 315 off the ground. My wife can only pull barefoot and refuses to wear Vibrams. We were going to order her a pair reluctantly since you cant go shoeless in competition, but Vibrams arent approved either, so looks like its going to be deadlift slippers. They are cheaper as well.

Gant Grimes
09-14-2010, 11:56 AM
My wife can only pull barefoot and refuses to wear Vibrams.

Lots of good things going on here.