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Tanner Cook
10-27-2010, 06:12 PM
So here's my deal,

Height: 5'8/ Weight: 152 pounds/ Age: 16/ Years Training: 5
Clean and Jerk: 187 pounds
Snatch: 145 pounds
Back Squat: 305 pounds
Deadlift: somewhere around 400
"Fran": 4:34
"Helen": 9:11

I wrestle, my season is from mid November to mid February, I gain tremendous Met-Con capacity but lose considerable amounts of strength. Every year I compete in CrossFit Sectionals, however they are very close after my wrestling season ends. So every year I do strength training all through the year with the occasional once-a-week Met-Con thrown in, and then I wrestle for my Met-Con, then train SS for 2 weeks, and 5/3/1 like program plus Met-Cons for 2 weeks, and compete. It works pretty well, but I would like to keep as much strength as I can this season, however I am aware that I have to be careful with my training In-season to not overtrain, esp. since I want a successful season. My matches are Weds. and Sat. And I have been thinking of lifting on those days, any suggestions on what I should train on those days and what kind of rep scheme, I'm thinking a 2 week rotating 2 lift split of BS/BP then DL OHP, with the second week being Snatch/OHS, and CJ/ Front Squat. Thoughts? Suggestions? Critiques?

Many Thanks,

-Tanner

Gant Grimes
10-27-2010, 08:00 PM
Too many variables to even get started. What does your coach want you to do?

Tanner Cook
10-28-2010, 04:54 AM
In which area?
Wrestling coach wants me to win states, I'm my own CrossFit Coach

Tanner Cook
10-28-2010, 09:33 AM
how bout this,

If I were to lift twice a week during wrestling season, what would be the best way to go about that?

Derek Weaver
10-28-2010, 02:07 PM
how bout this,

If I were to lift twice a week during wrestling season, what would be the best way to go about that?

Whatever way your coach approves of.

Your sport should come first. Talk to your coach.

Andrew Wilson
10-28-2010, 02:53 PM
So here's my deal,

Height: 5'8/ Weight: 152 pounds/ Age: 16/ Years Training: 5
Clean and Jerk: 187 pounds
Snatch: 145 pounds
Back Squat: 305 pounds
Deadlift: somewhere around 400
"Fran": 4:34
"Helen": 9:11

I wrestle, my season is from mid November to mid February, I gain tremendous Met-Con capacity but lose considerable amounts of strength. Every year I compete in CrossFit Sectionals, however they are very close after my wrestling season ends. So every year I do strength training all through the year with the occasional once-a-week Met-Con thrown in, and then I wrestle for my Met-Con, then train SS for 2 weeks, and 5/3/1 like program plus Met-Cons for 2 weeks, and compete. It works pretty well, but I would like to keep as much strength as I can this season, however I am aware that I have to be careful with my training In-season to not overtrain, esp. since I want a successful season. My matches are Weds. and Sat. And I have been thinking of lifting on those days, any suggestions on what I should train on those days and what kind of rep scheme, I'm thinking a 2 week rotating 2 lift split of BS/BP then DL OHP, with the second week being Snatch/OHS, and CJ/ Front Squat. Thoughts? Suggestions? Critiques?

Many Thanks,

-Tanner

Tanner, great enthusiasm. the best design for the competitive block, is leave it as a competitive block and only use it as a means to focus on and improve on your specific sport skills, specific competitive fitness, and preparation for competition. other wise specific sport skills + specific sport fitness + high intensity circuit fitness + general strength training + explosive strength training + competition preparation + crossfit preparation = time, energy, and recovery efforts siphoned & taken away from wrestling's specific skills, specific fitness, competition. I wrestled as well so know exactly what its like. I use to compete in oly in the middle of wrestling season, didn't work out well. I'm not sure what intensity the soviets did during a competitive block, I believe it was around 5RM or 3RM (90%-95%, 3 sets, and with a gradual increase from 5RM-3RM over the season with some tapering competition, only twice a week) with 2-3 days inbetween workout/competition or workout/workout or lay off for 10 days before a major competition. however, this was after following a maximal strength block and an explosive strength block in the preparation phase, and a special strengh & speed endurance block in the precompetition phase, so their nervous system, muscles, tendons, liagments, were already prepared with the long term delay training effect. This was also used to maintain the maximal strength training effect developed over preparation phase rather than a push for PR, linear progression. This is something you may want to look into next season. I believe bench rows, bench press, and squat are probably the best specific exercises as well. Depending on your recent training history and your body's ability to adapt to this type of training, you may be able to perform this but do so with only of maintence otherwise you may overload.

Andrew Wilson
10-28-2010, 03:06 PM
It is also to take note, that crossfit, though they make great use of American commercialism and marketing, do not have an educational background in physiology, exercise science, or special sport preparation. Their training methods are not based on evidence based research as done in Russia, nor have their methods been tested to optimally prepare the sportsman, or the physiological and morphological effects on the human body, as they claim to be. So there very well is better & proven methods to prepare sportsman's fitness for wrestling as in following a track and field sprinters' or decathletes' training programme as Georges St Pierre has done as a example

Derek Weaver
10-28-2010, 04:03 PM
Again, if you want to win state and be a good wrestler, you should wrestle. If your coach has got state champion caliber wrestlers, he likely knows best. Follow his instruct:( ions. That's really the end of the discussion.

Tanner Cook
10-28-2010, 04:40 PM
Derek, while my coach is a phenomenal wrestling coach, his experience in weightlifting is somewhat minimal, however I will consult him on his opinions about in-season training.

Andrew, thanks for the input! I'm not planning on goin for ME lifts in season, more of anything that will keep my strength loss to a minimum (5/3/1-esque). As for the crossfit input, I'm on the same page as you. I do not subscribe to CrossFit or CrossFit style programming, as I stated earlier I perform mainly the O-lifts (I compete in O-lifting as well), I work on the Basic Barbell lifts, and I throw in Track Work and the occasional Met-Con. I was introduced to strength training through crossfit when I was 11, also my father is a very knowledgeable coach, he was a gym owner/strength and conditioning coach/crossfit coach, so I never went though any body building half squatting stage. I enjoy some of the CrossFit WODs and I like competing at sectionals, but for even general training I'm not a kool-aid drinker, never have been, never will be. I appreciate the responses.

-Tanner

Tanner Cook
10-28-2010, 04:44 PM
Also, just to give you a summary of what kind of training I'm coming out of starting wrestling season,

I just finished a Russian Squat cycle with lots of assistance work (Good mornings, DB work, reverse hypers, chins/dips etc.) with either Sprinting or sub 15 min Met-Cons on saturdays.

Gant Grimes
10-28-2010, 04:47 PM
The variables I was asking about concerned mat time. If you're going hard on the mat, your recovery resources will be limited. The most I would do is barbell complexes (sets of 3; google Dan John complexes) or circuit work twice a week.

But again, ask your coach.

Samuel Hughes
10-28-2010, 05:20 PM
I'm only 22 but can tell you that, unless your a D1 prospect, high-school sports are a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. Having gone to a state championship in high school and dabbled in recreational collegiate athletics, the two just don't compare. If you are even a decent wrestler, take that to its potential while you can. If lifting helps you do that, so be it, but listen to your coach. Otherwise, you can always get stronger later, while you may never get the chance to compete in that kind of environment again.

I know lifting is fun and fulfill's a lot of empowering desires, but I can tell you that competing in an arena that has actual pressure and fans and teammates/people who care tops a 500lb deadlift hands down. Figure out how to get better at wrestling and just do that.

Tanner Cook
10-28-2010, 05:42 PM
Sam,
I totally agree man. I am not planning on wrestling in college (although I could go d3 no prob), and I don't plan on screwing up my wrestling season by over training. I love the competitive environment, which I also get in CrossFit competition (which I'd like to go far in after my athletic career) but I also gotta keep in mind that a couple months ago I totaled 145 kg at a USAW event, which is enough to qualify me for USAW schoolage nationals at 77 kilos this year, which is also a great opportunity that I'd love to capitalize on (especially since there are some schools offering oly lifting scholarships). I greatly appreciate the advice man.

-Tanner

Tanner Cook
10-28-2010, 05:44 PM
Gant,
as for mat time, we drill for about 45 min, then 15 minutes of 40 second live bursts with a fair amount of rest between, then 10-15 minutes of core work and conditioning, so pretty high volume.

Grissim Connery
10-28-2010, 08:12 PM
I was introduced to strength training through crossfit when I was 11, also my father is a very knowledgeable coach, he was a gym owner/strength and conditioning coach/crossfit coach, so I never went though any body building half squatting stage.
-Tanner

i wish i had figured this stuff out back when i was a teenager.

Joe Hart
10-28-2010, 08:52 PM
My bit....Found this info out there. One link is for off-season, but I thought I would include it.

http://www.training-conditioning.com/2007/10/strong_holds_1.html

http://www.training-conditioning.com/TC1707-41.pdf

http://www.training-conditioning.com/TC1707-42.pdf

http://www.training-conditioning.com/TC1707-43.pdf

I talked to the Head S&C for the U of Minn (Bob Rhode) wrestling team a while back to pick his brain and this is what I got.

Clean, squat, dips and pullups. Body control exercises and static holds. Intervals of 200 and 400m and running stairs. He didn't really differentiate between in season and off season.

I would think that strength training the day after matches would be the most beneficial. Twice a week. Open with cleans then squats and super set dips and pullups and then get out.

It is amazing how people will gladly talk to you about stuff if you ask. I don't know Bob Rhode at all. I emailed him asking if he had time to talk and he told me to call him. I did and that is what I got. Not a ton of info, but its better than nothing.

Derek Weaver
10-28-2010, 09:07 PM
Tanner,
Whatever your coach wants you to do. We can all go and dig up resources and go into the nuances of what training may look like pre season, in season, off season etc. But all of that information is really for the coach.

You need to worry about important things, not Crossfit. Grades are important. Staying in your weight class, or the class your coach wants you in, is important. Staying healthy is important. Making sure you're ready to compete in the CF sectionals is not important. Not right now.

Oh, and being a teenager is very, very important.

Gant Grimes
10-28-2010, 10:19 PM
Gant,
as for mat time, we drill for about 45 min, then 15 minutes of 40 second live bursts with a fair amount of rest between, then 10-15 minutes of core work and conditioning, so pretty high volume.

You'll have to go by feel, again, with your coach's blessing.

On the other hand--and this is not advice--if you're a high school athlete with good genetics and you eat enough, you can do absolutely whatever the hell you want and recover from it. I did it. Even now, at 36, I can maintain a tremendous training volume (when you include matwork) and be ok. You probably can, too. Approach it conservatively and go from there.

Now get off these forums and enjoy your time in HS.

Tanner Cook
10-29-2010, 04:51 AM
sounds good gentlemen, thanks for the advice

-Tanner