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View Full Version : Interesting Abstract. Thoughts???


Steve Forman
11-21-2010, 11:59 AM
I found this yesterday. Does anyone have any thoughts on this ????

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/299/5/E808

Jarod Barker
11-21-2010, 02:49 PM
Hmmm, I've heard a few anecdotal reports now of young men 18-25 developing diabetes from going keto paleo and then switching back to regular food when they joined the military.

Take the study with a grain of salt, I didn't bother to purchase the article, maybe it's in there, but from the abstract, we don't know the quality of the diet nor the macronutrient breakdown. What if the diet was 90% fat and 10% protein? That would yield a much different result. And suffice to say, mice have a very different digestive system than we do, so I would hope that humans can tolerate ketosis better.

I'm not smart enough to really geek out on this like some guys can, but I think this is why when following a keto diet, it's important to carb up occasionally. After all, we are omnivores not carnivores, so as much as I'd love to live on nothing but steak, bacon, and Thanksgiving turkey, I think that carbs play an important role in our overall health and function.

I'd be very interested to see the results when comparing a group of cyclic low carb diet mice.

Arien Malec
11-21-2010, 07:06 PM
Unless you know the specific strain of mouse, it's difficult to know how large a grain of salt to take.

In line with Chad's comments:

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/11/glucose-tolerance-in-non-industrial.html

Jarod Barker
11-22-2010, 02:02 PM
Good article, thanks for sharing that. I've always felt that we could adapt to pretty much any diet. My grandparents were so poor when they first came to America that they did without meat. Growing up, my father's family was so poor they could only afford to eat beans. Mind you, in a family where the only meal was beans, most of the kids are over 6 feet tall, so it's not like it ruined their health.

Don't get me wrong, I believe a paleo, whole foods, type diet is optimal for health and longevity, but the article makes some very good points about cultures where their carb intake would be considered extremely high.

The only thing I wonder now is to what degree is it reversible or rather "re-adaptable." Could you adapt to a ketogenic diet and then adapt to a high carb diet? Or is your metabolism less resilient over time?

Grissim Connery
11-23-2010, 09:34 AM
i've got access to that journal. i'll post up the methods section when i get home today.

Garrett Smith
11-23-2010, 11:57 AM
I'm guessing that the "high-fat" portion of the diet was made up of a good portion of O-6 heavy vegetable oils, along with foods that those animals don't regularly eat.

Grissim Connery
11-29-2010, 10:18 AM
if you still want this article, private message me your email and i'll send it to you

Alex Gold
01-10-2011, 06:56 PM
Looking at the biochemistry behind ketogenic diets, while they can be effective for fat loss, there is a point where they may become counterproductive if not managed properly. Ketone bodies have a net acid effect on the body, and during advanced ketosis the body may act to stop fatty acid breakdown so as to prevent further acidosis. A great way to do this is to increase the secretion of insulin to put the brakes on fat metabolism. So unmanaged and prolonged ketosis could very well end up inhibiting fat loss and moving toward insulin resistance.

On the other hand, however, such acidosis could hypothetically be managed through diet as well. So the moral of the story likely is something that many of us are already familiar with: the human body will alter itself in accordance with what we throw at it. We know to periodise our training while maintaining certain underlying principles...and it's likely that our nutrition could benefit from similar planning and management.

I honestly don't know which method would be best for managing the potential insulin resistance that could result from advanced ketosis. Perhaps ensuring a constant intake of alkaline foods? Or a short reprieve from the ketogenic diet to 'restart' the process?