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Grissim Connery
11-23-2010, 06:46 AM
I've never really measured my limbs, but I think that I may have good proportions for deadlifting just by how easy it's felt. With that said, i sometimes feel that i'm not getting enough work from DL just because i don't have enough TUT. It feels like there's little distance between having the bar on the floor and full extension. Has anybody had this problem?

My question is whether upping the reps just to get more TUT would be advisable. For instance, a day i would normally do a 3x3, i do a 5x5, and a day i would do a 5x5, i do a 5x7.

I guess the other option would be Straight legged deadlifts and keep normal rep schemes.

Kevin Perry
11-23-2010, 10:09 AM
I know a lot of people probably are against it but I got my DL up form doing lots of DL's mainly 5x10 per wendler after my heavy sets were done.

But if your DL is going already going up than is there really a need to change anything?

Derek Weaver
11-23-2010, 12:31 PM
Put more weight on the bar

Peter Dell'Orto
11-23-2010, 04:00 PM
I found that 5 x 10 trap bar and straight bar deadlifts after my work sets when I was using 5/3/1 worked really well for me. I kept the weight to around 50-60% of my training max and just cranked out the reps with short rests - 1 minute, rigidly timed, between sets. It was a good mix between hypertrophy (I got bigger legs, for sure) and conditioning (50 deadlifts in under 10 minutes). I think it gave me more endurance for the 5+, 3+, and 1+ sets, too.

Heck, I did them with Fat Gripz or Tyler Grips on the bar for a few cycles. My grip stopped being the limiting factor for anything after that.

So I'd say if high reps feel good, go for it. It worked fine for me in a way that adding more reps on my higher-end sets just didn't do.

Derek Weaver
11-23-2010, 04:57 PM
If you want to get stronger, more weight on the bar is the answer. If your arms are longer, good for you. You're blessed when it comes to pulling. Your bench will likely be a problem though. Though from what I can tell from your posts, you may not have even seen a bench in the last couple of years. This is not a bad thing.

From an Eric Cressey blogpost: http://ericcressey.com/dynamic-vs-repetition
"Repetition work helps strengthen connective tissue and groove appropriate movement patterns."

What is your purpose for thinking you may need more time under tension?

Allen Yeh
11-23-2010, 06:57 PM
I know I've seen a few times that Jim Wendler claims he gets more out of AMRAP for DL's but then again he's doing AMRAP with 500-600+ lb's not what most people are doing.

Gant Grimes
11-23-2010, 08:38 PM
My question is whether upping the reps just to get more TUT would be advisable. For instance, a day i would normally do a 3x3, i do a 5x5, and a day i would do a 5x5, i do a 5x7.

No need to trick this up. Add 100 pounds to the bar and it won't feel so easy. A max set of 5 will rip your balls off. Do this. Add ten pounds and do it a week later. Repeat until the weight quits moving up.

531 is nice after you've exhausted linear progression, largely because you can't pull 1x5 max every week. Get there first. Then we'll talk about 531 and rack pulls.

Grissim Connery
11-29-2010, 08:03 PM
late response; i got sick over the holiday.


What is your purpose for thinking you may need more time under tension?

i think a big part of this is that this past summer i didn't have access to a normal gym, so it was just gymnastics and KB. as a result, i did a lot of ME statics. i became a little more focused on TUT seeing as how that's what i had to improve. that mentality got a little burned into my brain.

coming back to a school gym (i graduated, but i've got access again), squatting has been progressing fine. getting ass to the floor really digs into the nether regions. meanwhile DL has just been kinda meh. i'll do a 3x3 or 3x1 w/ the heaviest i can handle. i'll get light headed, but i other than that i dont' really feel it in the nether regions (that's my best term for what i want to feel).


If your arms are longer, good for you. You're blessed when it comes to pulling. Your bench will likely be a problem though. Though from what I can tell from your posts, you may not have even seen a bench in the last couple of years. This is not a bad thing.

yeah, i haven't gotten on one in about a 2 years, and that time was only because i was trying that crossfit metcon "3 bars of death" or whatever (most worthless metcons i've tried). back in high school i was really bad at it.


Heck, I did them with Fat Gripz or Tyler Grips on the bar for a few cycles. My grip stopped being the limiting factor for anything after that.

that's a legit idea

No need to trick this up. Add 100 pounds to the bar and it won't feel so easy. A max set of 5 will rip your balls off. Do this. Add ten pounds and do it a week later. Repeat until the weight quits moving up.


but i need those balls...

Dave Van Skike
11-30-2010, 01:10 PM
two things that will f'up your pull.

thing 1: using the letters that make the following sound, see. en. ess.

thing 2: thinking.


it's been my observation that the more you're built for a lift, the less variety you'll need. the sum total of variety most natural pullers will ever need to get to triple BW.

pull for max singles and doubles dead stop.
pull for max reps touch and go, (keep it under 10 if you value your time)
pull from a slight deficit (standing on a 100 pound plate is about right)
pull from a slight surplus, (a set of 4x4 blocks)
and squat more.

that's about it.

edit: fat gripz are fine but a better idea is to take all your warm up sets double overhand. constantly try to push the weight of that top warm up set. big grips will change the dynamics of the pull substantially at heavy %'s. save the fat grips for rows and such truck. your elbows will thank you.

Peter Dell'Orto
12-01-2010, 05:45 AM
save the fat grips for rows and such truck. your elbows will thank you.

Heh. Both my elbows are messed up, but that has "vigorously applied straight arm bar" and not "Fat Gripz" written all over them.

The double-overhand is a good idea. My coach makes me pull double-overhand exclusively. I pulled my best-ever 1RM deadlift double-overhand. My grip strength exceeds what my back and legs can get off the ground and lock out.

One thing on the thick-handled deadlifting - I didn't do any of it heavy, just higher rep work. My goal wasn't to see how heavy I could lift a thick handled implement but make sure I could hold onto something the size of a human wrist/arm under strain for repeated reps.

The 5 x 10 set/rep scheme I took right out of 5/3/1. I figured if it was working for Jim Wendler, what the hell, I'd try it. It worked really well for me . . . but it's worth noting my goals are entirely mat-centered and upping my deadlift 1RM is just a pleasant side effect. As much as I love pulling heavy, it's not something I do often or something that translates as directly to my MMA game as pulling higher reps with limited rest did. YMMV and all of that . . . I'm not 100% certain of your goals so keep my mat-centric approach in mind when you read my advice.

Good luck with your deadlifting!

Gary John
12-01-2010, 08:08 AM
Every other week or so:

Start with 80% of max 1rm

Pull a double
add 10#
Pull a double
add 10#
pull a doulbe
add 10#
Pull a single
add 10#.........

keep up the singles adding 10# until you can't. Got all my PRs that way in the dead.

Marcial Bonifacio
12-11-2010, 07:07 PM
I know a lot of people probably are against it but I got my DL up form doing lots of DL's mainly 5x10 per wendler after my heavy sets were done.

I've never thought of doing these after heavy sets. Sounds new to me that I might try it.

Kevin Perry
12-11-2010, 07:24 PM
I've never thought of doing these after heavy sets. Sounds new to me that I might try it.

it's in 531 but you want to start light 30-40% max and work from there

Marcial Bonifacio
12-11-2010, 07:39 PM
Thanx Kevin. I'm reading about it and looks interesting.

Gant Grimes
12-15-2010, 08:56 AM
These are back off sets and have been used for at least half a century. You can also do volume work with a complementary exercise, especially if you vary your exercises between days.

E.g. I used to do something like:

Day 1
Press 531
Bar dips 4x15

Day 2
Bench 531
Press 5x10 (with about 40% of my press 1RM)

I like this better than back off sets in this case because you are getting more frequency with your principal lifts vs. simply more volume (bench and press both respond well to frequency).

Robert Beckett
01-14-2011, 07:03 AM
These are back off sets and have been used for at least half a century. You can also do volume work with a complementary exercise, especially if you vary your exercises between days.

E.g. I used to do something like:

Day 1
Press 531
Bar dips 4x15

Day 2
Bench 531
Press 5x10 (with about 40% of my press 1RM)

I like this better than back off sets in this case because you are getting more frequency with your principal lifts vs. simply more volume (bench and press both respond well to frequency).

Gant, regarding supplementing the main lifts in 5/3/1 with complementary exercise: what IYO would be the equivalents for the Squat and Deadlift days in 5/3/1? Perhaps something like

Squat 531
RDL 5X10
(or snatch-grip DL? or Power Clean?)

Deadlift 531
Squat 5X10
(or maybe Front Squat?)

Don Stevenson
01-15-2011, 12:05 AM
I've done 531 with complementary exercises like Gant is describing and these are the exercises I used.

531 Squat day

Clean pulls 5x5
RDL 4x8
Heavy KB swings 4 x 10-15
Or just DL but only at 60-70%

531 DL day

Front squats
Squats at 60-70%

Robert Beckett
01-16-2011, 06:47 AM
I've done 531 with complementary exercises like Gant is describing and these are the exercises I used.

531 Squat day

Clean pulls 5x5
RDL 4x8
Heavy KB swings 4 x 10-15
Or just DL but only at 60-70%

531 DL day

Front squats
Squats at 60-70%

Thanks Don