PDA

View Full Version : Swings to abs ratio???


Daniel Christensen
12-16-2010, 07:12 PM
Is there a recommended ratio of ab strength to swing strength?

At the end of a workout I'm doing sets of 2-handed swings with the 24kg KB (a set on the minute, currently 5 reps per set for 10 minutes), the finishing off with some squats (using a pair of 16 kg KBs) and some hanging knee raises. The squats are working my abs pretty hard, and during the swings I reckon my abs could feel a bit stronger.

Cheers

Dan

Derek Weaver
12-17-2010, 12:43 AM
I really have no idea what you're asking.

What do you mean by a ratio of ab strength to swing strength? I don't really know what you mean either by feeling like your abs could feel a bit stronger. Are you experiencing a form breakdown? losing posture?

I may be a little dense though.

Samuel Hughes
12-17-2010, 07:40 AM
There is no answer to this question. If your core feels unstable during any exercise, then add some core work and/or focus on it during the exercise until you do it right...

Derek- get some sleep!

Grissim Connery
12-18-2010, 01:52 PM
if you say that your abs could feel "a bit stronger" then they'll probably just automatically strengthen to the appropriate ammount as demanded by the exercises you're using, unless there's a serious deficit.

as for you primary question, your comparison was between a specific exercise vs. a specific muscle group. that's kinda like asking whether a specific car is better than a transmission. you need to offer 2 exercises if you want an idea of ratio.

overall, you should just probably do more planks and call it a day.

Daniel Christensen
12-18-2010, 08:05 PM
Thanks for the comments guys...

Agree, my question could have been more specific, but wasn't sure if there was a particular ab exercsise that compliments the swings.

Derek Weaver
12-18-2010, 09:33 PM
Ab exercise compliment everything. Try and stay away from movements that are dependent on lumbar flexion (crunches are the best example) and you should be good.

McGill and those who ascribe to his research findings tend to stick to movements that teach: extension, resistance to flexion, rotation, resistance to rotation. this tends to fit as cable rotation/anti rotation exercises, planks, roll outs, plank variations, and sometimes reverse crunches. I also like TGU Sit Ups as well.

Daniel Christensen
12-18-2010, 11:16 PM
Thanks Derek

I do hanging knee raises at the end of workout for decompression, but the fall into flexion category. I'll see if something planky fits the bill.

Cheers

Dan

Derek Weaver
12-19-2010, 02:19 AM
Hanging Kneet and Leg Raises are cool. No worries there.

Ben Moskowitz
02-12-2011, 01:00 PM
Yeah as long as you have flexion with a neutral spine, the exercise is fine. For example, jackknifes or hanging leg/knee raises. Checkout this article by Mike Robertson:

http://robertsontrainingsystems.com/blog/21st-century-core-training/

same article with videos embedded, but less photos:
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/21st_century_core_training_1

Some of the "why"
http://robertsontrainingsystems.com/blog/understanding-your-abs/
http://robertsontrainingsystems.com/blog/understanding-your-abs-part-ii/

Derek Weaver
02-12-2011, 01:26 PM
Good links Ben.

I should have added that TGU sit ups aren't necessarily optimal, but for the purposes I was using them for, they were good. I would honestly say that I would rather people do regular TGUs in most cases though.

Daniel Christensen
02-14-2011, 05:09 AM
FYI - my current routine.... adapted slightly to reflect feedback from the above discussion.


I train kickboxing weds night, mma/ bjj thurs night, and bjj/ kickboxing sat morning. Im not religious, so if life gets in the way (and it does) and I miss a session, no dramas.

For additional conditioning I alternate between:
KB Swings w/out 1:
Joint mobility warm-up
Renegade rows and singe-leg work - about 10 mins
Play with KB cleans (still learning movement) about 5 mins
One-armed swings (low rep sets on the minute) 20 mins
Ab bridge and variations
Bits of yoga and stretching to finish off
Turkish Getup workout:
Joint mobility warm-up
Practice some rope & stick stuff
Retching cat (accentuated cat pose per the 4-hour body) 2mins
TGU practice 12 mins
Bits of yoga and stretching to finish off
Short Run:
15-20 min run
KB Swings w/out 2:
Joint mobility warm-up
Chins & dips - about 10 mins
Two-armed swings (higher rep sets on the minute) 20 mins
Ab wheel from knees
Stiff legged deadlift & hanging knee raises
Bits of yoga and stretching to finish off
Turkish Getup workout
Short Run
Depending on what I got on I usually get in 2-3 conditioning workouts a week, so it usually takes me about 2.5 weeks to cycle through these. Im trying to have a back-off every fourth week.