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Patrick Otis
01-12-2011, 06:48 AM
First post so let me introduce myself. I was an avid crossfit person, an started wanting more strength work. So i started focusing on that via rips witchta beginer program. I have some odd work hours so here is my schedudle. My issue is during my clean session suddelny felt as if I had just ran a marathon and lacked the engery to get the job done.

Fasting on M/W/F with this schedudle

5 AM: 5-15 minutes pre-workout: 10 g BCAA.
530-630 AM: Training.
8 AM: 10 g BCAA.
10 AM: 10 g BCAA
12-1 PM: Start of the 8 hour feeding-window.
4pm: Other work out (20 min or less of a triplet/rowing/running)
8-9 PM: Last meal before the fast.
910PM: In bed ( no I am not joking)

I am 33 69inch tall (or short depending on how you look at it) and weigh approx 185. I am taking in approxmently 2384-2400 daily. I am paleo strict sans Saturday when I hash ( info located here (http://www.gthhh.com/) )and drink some beers .

my goals are 300 back squat 400 dead and 225 bench. The next step in my little twisted world is to get oly smart ( why I am here actually)

My question is am i messing it up. do i need to add some protien to the morning workout mixture ( I am thinking 10 grams or so) or should I switch the SS to the afternoon and do my morning as other ( 1 of the following under 20 min triplet wod/ running/ Rowing) ?
thanks Pat

Patrick Otis
01-13-2011, 05:50 PM
http://www.elitefts.com/images/PICTURES/Olympic-Lifting/Olifting-1.jpg

wow 105 views? did fail to give some information? thanks Pat

Arien Malec
01-13-2011, 05:54 PM
No. Not messing it up. I don't know why you want to do the IF only 3 days/week; would be better to keep to the same pattern daily, but the setup looks very similar to:

http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html

Nice Dimas picture.

Patrick Otis
01-14-2011, 04:59 AM
No. Not messing it up. I don't know why you want to do the IF only 3 days/week; would be better to keep to the same pattern daily, but the setup looks very similar to:

http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html



Ah didn't grasp that part I will adjust for next week. Thanks for you help

Nice Dimas picture.


Thanks I was luring on another board an saw this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOWcrqOSevs

I have been a fan since + gregs book and the desire to move weights like that brought me here.

Jesse Woody
01-14-2011, 03:57 PM
I happened to catch this post on my RSS feed and checked back to see if anybody posted the obvious answer...2400 calories at 185# is nowhere near enough to make a novice program like Rip's work. IF might help protein synthesis and insulin sensitivity, but that doesn't mean jack when you're eating nearly 1000 calories too little to make gains. This alone is why I rarely suggest IF for people attempting to gain strength. Eat like a beast, meet your goals, and then reassess and see if IF is something you can do for maintenance. Just my $.02

Arien Malec
01-14-2011, 04:26 PM
I happened to catch this post on my RSS feed and checked back to see if anybody posted the obvious answer...2400 calories at 185# is nowhere near enough to make a novice program like Rip's work.

Duh. Yes, you need to take in more calories. If you are doing LG, you would take in additional calories in your large meal.

Relative to not getting enough calories, I don't know about Jesse, but I can easily eat 3000+ calories in an 8 hour feeding window :-)

Patrick Otis
01-15-2011, 06:37 AM
Oh I can eat more, should I keep my protien intake to body weight or 1.5? this is what I am using to figure caliore needs? I can' t exceed a body weight of 181 currently (military) Until I get a bigger neck and smaller waist. thanks Pat

http://www.runningdeersoftware.com/products/dietgenie-calorie-req.htm

Arien Malec
01-15-2011, 08:07 AM
Don't eat more, then, because you will gain weight.

Calorie cycle to make sure the total calories don't exceed maintenance weekly. So if you eat 2800 calories on a training day, go for 2100 on non-training days.

Also, with this setup, I would really really try to move your training right before your big meal. Whether that's moving your feeding window to the morning or moving your training meal, if you try to do SS + IF for a recomp, you need to hit all the other dietary parameters.

Patrick Otis
01-15-2011, 11:00 AM
So how about this schedudle?

training day ( M/W/F) calories 2800

5 AM: 10 g BCAA.
8 AM: 10 g BCAA.
1030: 10 g BCAA
11-12 Training (SS)
12-1 PM: Start of the 8 hour feeding-window.
8-9 PM: Last meal before the fast.
910PM: In bed


NON SS training day ( t/th/Sat/SUN) calories 2100

12-1 PM: Start of the 8 hour feeding-window.
4pm: Other work out (20 min or less of a triplet/rowing/running TUES/THURS/SAT)
8-9 PM: Last meal before the fast.
910PM: In bed

makes sense or add the bcaa's on the non training days?

thanks for the help
Pat

Arien Malec
01-15-2011, 01:49 PM
Start the BCAAs closer to the training, but otherwise looks resonable. No need for BCAAs on non-training days, since the food will give you what you need.

Keep an eye on recovery....

Patrick Otis
01-21-2011, 04:52 AM
So this was a horrible week. Back squat had to be scaled down to 240 ( was 265) I felt exhausted all the way through the workouts. Almost like I needed a nap? So i have come to conclusion that IF+SS no good for this guy.So I will eliminate the IF part and see what the deal is. I will however role 2100 on non training days and 2400 caliores on training days. thoughts thanks again Pat

John Alston
01-21-2011, 06:37 AM
Bigger swings. 3k and 2k. 2100 and 2400 are too close.

Patrick Otis
01-21-2011, 08:05 AM
Will give it a shot. 2k on non ss training days an 3k on training days.

John Alston
01-22-2011, 08:56 AM
OK, look, I think bigger swings are worth it b/c the point of calorie cycling is to alternate the hormonal environments needed for losing fat with gaining muscle. Leangains is a good plan for this, but even TNation is now getting on with IF like planning with their pulse fast/feast series.
But all this is a lot... look, i am slightly taller/bigger and a year older than you and have met some of your goals - I recently found success training at noon, fasted, with the 10g BCAA kind of Leangains plan but more athletic liftin - I bring this up b/c you said something about not getting bigger. I was lofting bigger weights but my body weight wasn't changing, and slowly the look was working - pants fitted looser in the right places, people said I looked strong. It all worked until I broke my ankle playing bball.... (there's a lesson there).
So getting stronger at the same weight can happen, it seems to be slow though, and you seem to do a lot of activity.
Start by eliminating non lifting training if you can and see what you can do from there. Prioritize. You mentioned twice in this thread instances of under performing in strength. So back off the other shit and focus for a bit. Prioritize. My 2 cents.

Arien Malec
01-22-2011, 10:20 AM
Bigger swings. 3k and 2k. 2100 and 2400 are too close.

If your maintenance is 2400, 2100 on non-workout days + 2400 on workout days is an average deficit of 180 calories. You can't do SS on a caloric deficit. Can't be done (unless you have a lot of fat mass to burn to make up the difference). Go for recomp at the same BW (thus my recommendation of 2100 and 2800 or 2k and 3k as John suggests).

Also, the weight jumps programmed in SS are based on overfeeding. Start deliberately lighter and add weight deliberately more slowly if you are going for recomp. Your first week of workouts should be frustratingly easy.

Patrick Otis
01-24-2011, 08:05 AM
Thank you all for the advice. It is all very valid. I am the first to admit I do a lot of extras. Like running, rowing and other non mentioned stuff. I plan to pick this all back up in approx 2 months ( after PRT) . Where I can dedicate time for proper priotization.

thanks again Pat