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Kyle Redinger
02-01-2011, 10:09 AM
We've had very good results with this Wichita Falls influenced program in a traditional linear progression. Our goals are to build overall strength, build the strength in the slow lifts, and maintain and grow CF metcon ability. The gym population is generally beginner level with a few intermediate lifters.

* Monday – Squat (5x5) + shorter metcon
* Tuesday – Heavy Deadlift (5 rep max or 3-3-3) + shorter metcon
* Wednesday – Longer Metcon + skillwork
* Thursday – Squat (5x5) + Press (3-3-3-3-3)
* Friday – Power Cleans (3-3-3-3-3) + shorter metcon

Metcons are generally simple and designed to not interfere with recovery and the lifts. Thoughts/comments/concerns?

P.S. Please leave CF bashing to other threads.

Dave Coughlin
02-01-2011, 10:55 AM
I'm personally not a fan of longer metcons the day before a big squat day (5x5 seems big to me); I've gone in the day after a long metcon to squat and usually have poor results. If that's not the case with you,then go for it. I seem to remember Justin L. saying something of a similar tone with regard for longer metcons before squat days.

I do like the two days off, but those five days in a row would be too much for me personally. If it has worked, then kudos to you. It does look heavily influenced by the Texas method, which is a great place to begin...

Arien Malec
02-01-2011, 01:31 PM
If by 5x5, do you mean sets across?

Dave Van Skike
02-01-2011, 01:33 PM
Take that same schedule and spread it across two weeks and you're getting somewhere.

Kyle Redinger
02-01-2011, 01:47 PM
to clarify, longer metcons are 15 to 20 minutes and we like to incorporate 400-800M runs and 250 to 100m rows.

shorter metcons are 2 to 6 minute high intensity

a lot of clients take thursday off and makeup on Saturday, so typically they rest after the long stuff.

5x5 means 5-5-5-5-5 with the same weight, we have people work up in 5 to 10 pound increments each week and that typically stops working well after about 6 weeks.

Arien Malec
02-01-2011, 02:08 PM
5x5 means 5-5-5-5-5 with the same weight, we have people work up in 5 to 10 pound increments each week and that typically stops working well after about 6 weeks.

There's a reason for that. 5x5 sets across gets brutal very quickly. You need to build in massive amounts of recovery time, and it will only work for certain populations (young people who are eating a ton). See Texas Method stuff (70s Big did a post on TM).

And what DvS said.

Clay Montero
02-01-2011, 03:19 PM
...

Kyle Redinger
02-01-2011, 03:27 PM
Most people are working technique on the 5x5s, so while the recovery would be an issue for more experienced, not technically limited clients, the larger volume translates into better form and practice at the lift than truly exhausting sets.

Dave Van Skike
02-01-2011, 04:13 PM
Most people are working technique on the 5x5s, so while the recovery would be an issue for more experienced, not technically limited clients, the larger volume translates into better form and practice at the lift than truly exhausting sets.


maybe folks would concur with what your planning if they knew what exactly are the the conditioning sessions you intend to use and how do they relate to the work that preceded them?

as it stands, for a raw group of novices, what you're proposing is pushing uphill needlessly.

Jim Glover
02-01-2011, 05:47 PM
Why no pressing?

Jacob Rowell
02-01-2011, 07:35 PM
I typically don't have the best luck pushing the deadlift and backsquat at the same time. I'd do the deadlifts every other week to spread out the stress. Squatting volume might be a little on the high side - you'll just have to watch out for how much knee and hip extension/running is going to pop up in metcons. I don't think the 5x5's will kill anyone, just depends on how low you start. The first thing I would do if a lot of folks are stalling would be to drop the 5x5's to 3x5's.

Beyond that, when I did SS, I found that recovery had to be pretty precise once I got to the point where I was really depending on a little progress to make my lifts. Things like riding my bike too much, not eating enough, not sleeping enough, would screw me - there just wasn't much room for error, and I would get derailed pretty easily. I've favored a combination of max effort, rep maxes (Max reps @ X%), or finding daily maxes and working volume off those numbers, all for the sake of giving some flexibility based off recovery from the week's metcons.

Ben Byram
02-02-2011, 04:56 AM
My views on Crossfit aside, I'd drop a metcon as I expect 3 is enough and do.

M - Skillwork + metcon
T - Squat 5x5, Press 3x5, Deadlift 1x5
W - Long metcon
T - Off (I don't like 5 days in a row)
F - Power clean 5x3, Squat 3x5 + metcon (with pressing included).

You cover all the lifts, sufficient metcon and better recovery.

I'd add a little weight to Tuesday's squat for Friday, then use that same weight for 5 sets across on Tuesday of the following week.

Just my opinion....

.... on reflection, Monday's metcon would be better on Saturday as I agree doing anything before heavy squats isn't good. Or some LSD cardio or long-intervals - heaven forbid.

Kyle Redinger
02-02-2011, 06:34 AM
Thanks for the feedback, here's an idea with alternating weeks, and less squatting volume.


Week 1

• Monday – Squat (5x5) + shorter metcon
* Tuesday – Heavy Deadlift (3-3-3) + shorter metcon
* Wednesday – Longer Metcon + skillwork
* Thursday – Squat (3-3-3-3-3) + Press (3-3-3-3-3)
* Friday – Power Cleans (3-3-3-3-3) + shorter metcon

Week 2

Monday Squat 5RM (2nd week), 3RM (4th Week), 1RM (6th week) + shorter metcon
Tuesday – Power Clean 2-2-2-2 + shorter metcon
* Wednesday – Longer Metcon + skillwork
* Thursday –Press (3-3-3-3-3) + Good Morning/RDL/Alternative
* Friday – Weighted Pullup (3-3-3-3-3) + Short metcon

Dave Van Skike
02-02-2011, 01:59 PM
unless your beginners are high school boys with a light class load, you're waaaay over-programming this.

Troy Kerr
02-06-2011, 02:04 PM
This is very similar to an approach I used 6 months back with the Wendler 531 program. Programs like this can have a number of benefits. For my gym, it involved constant weekly coaching on the big lifts: squat, press,dead, clean. This made coaching a lot easier as we did not have to constantly do a 10 minute explanation of each lift whenever it came up in a workout.
This is great for building some strength numbers as well as maintaining some work capacity. So almost like beginner's to crossfit, or just beginners in general. The metcons can be stretched out with some higher volume, if rest breaks are implemented. This is more interval style training, and in my experience does not have big interference with recovery.
If you are working with some beginning clients that just want to get in shape and are new to the gym scene, this program will be fine for awhile. However if you are working with clients that wish to compete in crossfit events, they will need to have exposure to more pure "constantly varied" workouts, as opposed to "finishers".

Dave Van Skike
02-07-2011, 10:20 AM
My stance will always be that if the conditioning work isn't interferring with recovery on the strength work, then soembody is candy assing the barbell work or the conditioning.

if you turn all the "metcons" to "recovery work...I'd say you're gold.