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kevin mckay
03-05-2007, 10:32 AM
Ok, I have slacked off hard lately strayed from my paleo ways and gained a bunch of fat. I read the v diet thread above and found it interesting but not necessarily healthy. I asked guru wolf about a paleo quick loss option and got this.

"Hmmm...likely Zone protein level and carbs only in the form of veggies...just a little fat. Clock only about 1200 cals and train pretty hard. You will get lean in a hurry."

So I will do this for a 2 weeks and report results the simplicity of "meat and veg" sounds like something that appeals to my do or do not ocd tenancies.

http://performancemenu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=582&page=4

Weight=185

Dave Van Skike
03-05-2007, 11:01 AM
To start the discussion I'll ask the two most important questions in all of the internets....

What is your goal?

How will you know when you have reached it?

Like along the lines of:

how lean do you mean? What's your best guess starting BF? How will you track bf versus muscle losses?

Scott Kustes
03-05-2007, 12:44 PM
My question is why must it be quick? You didn't gain overnight, why are you trying to lose it overnight? Just stick to a solid diet and you'll be back where you were in no time, healthfully.

Dave Van Skike
03-05-2007, 05:05 PM
My question is why must it be quick? You didn't gain overnight, why are you trying to lose it overnight? Just stick to a solid diet and you'll be back where you were in no time, healthfully.

Why do you think it should be slow?

Steve Liberati
03-05-2007, 06:09 PM
Why do you think it should be slow?

To avoid muscle loss and frustration...

Dave Van Skike
03-05-2007, 06:52 PM
To avoid muscle loss and frustration...

I think these fears are wildly overblown. I have seen firsthand, many folks (self included) do better on a fast hard diet than a long drawn out attempt to "moderate" intake.

The idea that vast slabs of muscle will be lost on a PSMF are not born out by the results of those of use that have tried. Ask Dan John how much muscle he lost on the v-diet.

Allison Barns
03-05-2007, 06:57 PM
I think these fears are wildly overblown. I have seen firsthand, many folks (self included) do better on a fast hard diet than a long drawn out attempt to "moderate" intake.

The idea that vast slabs of muscle will be lost on a PSMF are not born out by the results of those of use that have tried. Ask Dan John how much muscle he lost on the v-diet.

What does "PSMF" mean ??

kevin mckay
03-05-2007, 07:55 PM
goal is to see my abs

Day 1

green tea + stevia

1pm
6 oz salmon
2 cup Cesar salad
2 cup coleslaw

6 pm
1 chicken thigh
2 eggs
4 cup zucchini
1 tbsp olive oil
2 tbsp fish oil
cup onion
garlic
balsamic vinegar

Dave Van Skike
03-05-2007, 08:16 PM
What does "PSMF" mean ??


Protein sparing modified fast.

V diet et al.

Basically, very low kcals. very low carb, mostly protein.

kevin mckay
03-06-2007, 09:09 PM
Day 2

green tea + stevia

1pm
6 oz chicken breast
2 cup Cesar salad
2 cup coleslaw

6 pm
5 eggs
4 cucumber
1 tbsp sesame oil

kevin mckay
03-07-2007, 07:01 PM
noon
6 oz chicken thigh
2 cup mixed greens
8 asparagus spears
1 tbsp olive oil

6pm
6 oz grass fed ground top round
2 cups broccoli
2 cups cauliflower
2 tbsp fish oil
1 tsp macadamia nut butter
4 oz Brie opps it snuck up on me I swear!

kevin mckay
03-08-2007, 08:19 PM
day 4
noon
6 oz chicken thigh
2 cup mixed greens
2 cup Cesar salad
1 tbsp olive oil

6pm
6 oz grass fed ground top round
2 cups broccoli
2 cups cauliflower
2 tbsp fish oil
1 tsp macadamia nut butter


One strange thing is that although I am going pretty darn low carb I am not getting the headaches or sleepiness I got from the md which was the last time I went really low carb. Should I attribute this to IF that is my gut feeling?

kevin mckay
03-09-2007, 07:08 PM
9 am
4 eggs
1 tangerine

12
5 oz grass fed beef
8 asparagus spears
2 cup coleslaw
1 apple

6
chicken apple sausage
4 oz gf beef
apple
12 almonds
1 apple


weight 180 down 5lb from Monday 185 so maybe lost 1-2 lb of actual fat, I am going to allow myself 1 piece of fruit per meal and see what happens.

Steve Liberati
03-09-2007, 07:50 PM
Kevin, keep this thread rolling. Pretty much following the same outline minus the fruit (it's winter!). Useful for comparison sake and meal ideas. One quick dumb question...what is Brie?

kevin mckay
03-09-2007, 08:18 PM
About the fattiest richest cheese you are gonna find, pretty much butter.

http://www.johnsandell.co.uk/photography/photos/brie1.jpg

I figure if I am going to break the rules better make it worth while!

kevin mckay
03-10-2007, 07:23 PM
4 eggs
tangerine

4 oz turkey
.5 avocado
4 cup coleslaw
apple

1 cup mixed berries
28g protein powder
3 cup coleslaw
chicken apple sausage
2 oz turkey
3 cup coleslaw

kevin mckay
03-12-2007, 09:06 PM
3 eggs
1 cup blue berries
almonds

2 chicken thigh
apple

chicken thigh
beef vegetable stew
tangerine
almonds

Steve Liberati
03-13-2007, 11:43 AM
Kevin,
How are you progressing? Noticing a visible difference?

kevin mckay
03-13-2007, 12:58 PM
Went from 185 to 178 as of today, I am sure allot of that was water from the decreased sodium and just less shit sitting around in my gi track from the increased fiber but am sure some of it was fat and umbilicus went from 38 - 37 so things are going well. I want to get around 170-175 and am sure this will get me there in no time.

Thanks

Dave Van Skike
03-13-2007, 01:34 PM
At 185 BW I woudl guess about 3 maybe 4 pounds of water. You'll know for sure when you start back on maintnence cal.s I would not be surised to see you gain back 2 pounds of water. Not bad for a couple weeks work.

Steve Liberati
03-13-2007, 02:27 PM
For the last several months I've been doing 20 hr fasts on an every other day basis. Although performance is steadily moving along, I might give the 12-6 protocol a shot. Running on empty in the am (higher metabolic output) and cut-off at 6pm seems ideal for the fat-loss furnace. Not to mention the supposed health benefits of IF.

Keep us updated on your progress though. Its a good experiment.

kevin mckay
03-13-2007, 02:59 PM
I really like the 12-6 schedule it feels really natural.

kevin mckay
03-13-2007, 08:31 PM
3 eggs
cup blueberries

chicken thigh
beef stew
apple

chicken thigh
beef stew
tangerine

here is my paleo beef stew not bad found it online it is actually 90 % vegitables

1 pound grassfed stewing beef
3 quarts water
1-2 bay leaves
1 head of cabbage
4 medium to large carrots
4-6 stalks of celery
2 medium-large onion
1 garlic clove
4 tomatoes
6 oz. tomato puree

Put 1 lb. stewing beef in a large pot and fill with 3
qts. water. Add bay leaves. Simmer 2-3 hours, Skim top from time to time.
Chop coarsely the cabbage, carrots, celery and onion. Cook 30 minutes. Add tomatoes and tomato puree. Bring to a boil again and serve.

Larry Lindenman
03-14-2007, 05:05 AM
Kevin, thanks for being a lab rat for the team. I know you said performance is increasing, but your carbs are so low (even protein is low)! Your lifts have continued to go up and times have gone down? I like the idea and use a similar approach to cut fat...vegs, lean meat, fish and olive oil, eggs, and that's about it, but I eat throughout the day instead of IF. Keep up the good work!

Pierre Auge
03-14-2007, 05:23 AM
Larry,
many of us who've used IF have noticed this trend: While fasting your ability to exert external force goes up, but metcon drops. When timings are more regular metcon goes right back up! At least its been my experience. So basically if I'm fasting and I'm about to go do something involving intense metcon I'll have a 3-4 block zone meal consisting of lean, low glycemic, whole foods about 1-2 hours prior.

kevin mckay
03-14-2007, 10:21 AM
Hey Larry great to see you here on the dark side !

I have been doing mostly body weight stuff similar to Angie, Barbra, and Cindy mostly Barbra variations and have had continued progress in times, but I guess the intervals are to short to deplete glycogen stores. I have defiantly not lost any muscle mass! As far as IF is concerned I am sold in the biggest way after 6 months IF has done nothing but improve my comp/performance and stabilized my blood sugar more than anything else which was an issue for me.

Cheers

kevin mckay
03-14-2007, 06:53 PM
noon
2 eggs
12 asparagus spears
18 gram whey egg protein
1 cup cherries
hand full almonds
3 cup vegetable beef stew

6pm
4 cup mixed greens
1 tbsp olive oil
6 oz grass fed ground beef
3 cup vegetable beef stew
handful almonds
tangerine

kevin mckay
03-15-2007, 07:21 PM
noon
chicken breast
4 cup cabbage salad
tangerine

6pm
6 oz gf ground beef
4 cup spinach
3 cup vegetable beef stew
.5 Asian pear
3 hand full almonds

Larry Lindenman
03-16-2007, 05:13 AM
Kevin and Pierre, thanks. I might give a go at something similar. I tend to gain fat in the winter and lose it spring/summer. Usually I start creatine supplementation November/December and work on strength/power. When I run out of the big assed bottle of creatine I stop. This and my lack of total focus on wintertime nutrition leads to about 10 pounds, most water, some fat from sub par diet. Spring I usually tighten up diet, go off creatine, and use the strength gains to hit metcon hard I'm going to play around with this a little and see what happens. Thanks again guys.

kevin mckay
03-16-2007, 08:28 AM
Wow back at 175 again! I must have been really constipated ;) attributing a good percent to stuff in gi track and water retention. Any way cool experiment and as you can see I even upped my carbs by adding fruit as the "all veg" was just to low carb and I was getting that thirsty feeling. Good stuff and just under 2 weeks, as usual thanks Rob.

All hail Rob Wolf Shaman of the clan of the nerd bear!