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Cain Morano
05-16-2011, 05:26 PM
I finished the 12 Week Technique Program from Greg Everett's book, then did his 3 Week Bulgarian Peaking Cycle, and then competed (see that in its own post).

I went back to the gym Tuesday after the competition (Saturday) and hit four days pretty hard (Tue, Wed, Fri, Sat) with strength/power workouts and CF WODs. The following week I did nothing. Then the week after I did next to nothing, then the following week a little bit of lifting. And finally I decided to try out this program that I found... http://www.doctorhartmanblog.com/

I will update this thread each week..

Cain Morano
05-16-2011, 05:33 PM
This was a rough first couple of days back to the gym. I did manage to do 225# x 5 x 5 back squats, which I have never done before (PR). The one odd thing about this program is that the squats are first. I tried this on one of the days, but if you say this out loud lots of people will at you for such heresy. I am not sure how to go about this, I may experiment with exercise order. I have tried squats first and last, and maybe since I am so new (I can race a tricycle and increase my dead lift) the order doesn't matter.

On my final day, I trained with a local weightlifting club and set a snatch 5kg PR of 75kg. Then I worked on technique with some halting power cleans.

Cain Morano
05-16-2011, 05:40 PM
I was wondering about exercise order. I did snatch, then clean and jerk, followed by Romanian dead lift, and then back squats. What if I alternated 5 x 5 RDL/BS? Would it make a difference?

The squats were supposed to be first, I put them last. I set another PR. I was a little sissy at first, doing 242.5 x 3 instead of 5. Then after the second set of 242.5 x 3 I made the decision that I want to win, I want to be awesome, and that means going to where it will suck and I might fail. It turns out that 242.5 x 5 x3 (to finish the 5 x 5) really doesn't suck. It was doable, no grinding out of any reps. It was a great confidence booster - PR. The 5/3/1 cycles I did made me stronger.

I did some foam rolling, pvc pass throughs/dislocates, and lacrosse ball rolling for recovery, at home.

*Noticed that when I am ready for the next lift, with the snatch/cj, I have a heart rate of 80 bpm or less.

Cain Morano
05-16-2011, 05:47 PM
I woke up with a ridiculous amount of stiffness in the neck, I couldn't turn to one side and it hurt. I waited for it to go away, and it subsided a little after several days. At two weeks I went to the chiropractor. The adjustment helped my shoulder injury, I think it never would have healed if I never got an adjustment. He used electrostimulation on my traps on a very sore day (for my shoulder immobility, not for trap pain) and afterwards the pain was completely gone. So there is something to be said for electrostim in recovery. Also, he Kinesio taped the shoulder which was awesome! It offered some support, but the best part was that it reminded me of where the shoulder was supposed to be. My upper back was wrecked for so long my shoulders were not even. Before I went to the chiro, I went to a Bikram yoga class to try to loosen up my neck and shoulders. It helped the shoulders but not the neck. So evaluate your yoga program before using it for recovery. Each yoga system is different, I don't feel like I got the right stretches from Bikram. It was just a 90 minute steam and torture session.

Cain Morano
05-19-2011, 07:53 AM
I am sticking with the prescribed exercise order. If it says squats first, then squat is first. I am not altering this program in any way.

Cain Morano
05-19-2011, 03:15 PM
I am taking lots of expert advice and going to an LP before finishing this (Hartman) program. It is a Starting Strength hybrid. So, Doctor Hartman's program is awesome, but I must attempt to squeeze all beginner-ness out of me by using a truly novice program to bring up my basic strength. I won't be putting that on the forum, but I will return to finish this cycle and will update it when I return.

But before I go let me tell you how much I got out of this program.
On week 2 day 2, I did set 4 PRs. Max power snatch 160# (don't have an old PR, but three days before I set a squat snatch PR at 165), Max power clean and jerk 215# (up from 209#), Front squat 2RM 240# (up from 225#), and 3x5 push press at 165 (not an increase in strength but I've never done 3x5 of my 5RM). This was my second week back after a long rest, few weeks.

I look forward to topping off my basic lifts and coming back to Doctor Hartman's program in the future.

glennpendlay
05-19-2011, 11:16 PM
I am taking lots of expert advice and going to an LP before finishing this (Hartman) program. It is a Starting Strength hybrid. So, Doctor Hartman's program is awesome, but I must attempt to squeeze all beginner-ness out of me by using a truly novice program to bring up my basic strength. I won't be putting that on the forum, but I will return to finish this cycle and will update it when I return.

But before I go let me tell you how much I got out of this program.
On week 2 day 2, I did set 4 PRs. Max power snatch 160# (don't have an old PR, but three days before I set a squat snatch PR at 165), Max power clean and jerk 215# (up from 209#), Front squat 2RM 240# (up from 225#), and 3x5 push press at 165 (not an increase in strength but I've never done 3x5 of my 5RM). This was my second week back after a long rest, few weeks.

I look forward to topping off my basic lifts and coming back to Doctor Hartman's program in the future.

Hope you do well on your new program, but not sure why you would change what you are doing if its working...

Philip Stablein
05-20-2011, 06:04 AM
The advice doesn't get more expert than Glenn...so I am going to toss some questions his way.

I advised Cain to abandon the Hartman program, not because Dr Hartman's program isn't excellent (it certainly is) but because I think its a little more advanced than Cain needs right now. Cain squats in the mid 200s right now, and to my understanding hasn't really given a linear squat program its full due. Given his height and weight (5'11 205 iirc) I think he has some more general strength in him, and these next few weeks would be spent pushing that general strength up. The template I suggested is

Monday
Snatch heavy
Clean and jerk singles across ( or clean and jerk technique work)

Tuesday
Squat
Bench
Chin-ups


Wednesday
Off

Thursday
Clean and Jerk heavy
Snatch for sets across (or snatch technique work)

Friday
Squat
Press
Deadlift


And that he try to move the squats and deads with workout to workout increases. Reflecting on it now (and I am sure he will read this!) I think maybe push-pressing might be more useful than strict pressing.

Does the extra context I've provided garner any further comment Glenn? Have I led my buddy astray? Or are we speeding up a general strengthening process which will hopefully positively transfer to his lifts (60/95 in April, slightly higher now)? I eagerly await your comments!

Michael Hartman
05-20-2011, 06:43 AM
I advised Cain to abandon the Hartman program, not because Dr Hartman's program isn't excellent (it certainly is) but because I think its a little more advanced than Cain needs right now. Cain squats in the mid 200s right now, and to my understanding hasn't really given a linear squat program its full due. Given his height and weight (5'11 205 iirc) I think he has some more general strength in him, and these next few weeks would be spent pushing that general strength up.

Cain -- congrats on the PRs

FWIW, I think your advice and template looks good Phil. If Cain is still fairly new he will benefit from a solid linear progression as will all novice lifters. The 8-week course is intended for someone training as a competitive weightlifter, best used as a meet prep program, although some athletes have used it consecutively with pretty good success for 16+ weeks. I would recommend performing the comp lifts more than two days per week if the ultimate goal is competing in the sport of Olympic Weightlifting, but quality coaching and personal attention will always supersede any suggestions or written program...no matter who wrote it :)

*Born and raised in Southeast Baltimore

Philip Stablein
05-20-2011, 07:09 AM
Didn't know you read this forum :eek:

Thanks for the commentary! I agree on the >2x a week frequency in general. If I were doing that template I'd def put skill work in before the squats if I had the time, but thats the bugbear of remote/semi remote coaching, those devilish details!


Come see us anytime you might return to Baltimore. We've got a little Oly club brewing here.

glennpendlay
05-25-2011, 01:30 AM
The advice doesn't get more expert than Glenn...so I am going to toss some questions his way.

I advised Cain to abandon the Hartman program, not because Dr Hartman's program isn't excellent (it certainly is) but because I think its a little more advanced than Cain needs right now. Cain squats in the mid 200s right now, and to my understanding hasn't really given a linear squat program its full due. Given his height and weight (5'11 205 iirc) I think he has some more general strength in him, and these next few weeks would be spent pushing that general strength up. The template I suggested is

Monday
Snatch heavy
Clean and jerk singles across ( or clean and jerk technique work)

Tuesday
Squat
Bench
Chin-ups


Wednesday
Off

Thursday
Clean and Jerk heavy
Snatch for sets across (or snatch technique work)

Friday
Squat
Press
Deadlift


And that he try to move the squats and deads with workout to workout increases. Reflecting on it now (and I am sure he will read this!) I think maybe push-pressing might be more useful than strict pressing.

Does the extra context I've provided garner any further comment Glenn? Have I led my buddy astray? Or are we speeding up a general strengthening process which will hopefully positively transfer to his lifts (60/95 in April, slightly higher now)? I eagerly await your comments!

I made the commrent that I did because it sounded like he was making PR's, including squat PR's, on the program he was on. I am always hesitant to change from a program that is in the process of producing PR's even if the main component is dancing the hokey pokey... progress is progress and if your lifts are going up ride the train as far as it will go and dont ask question...

That having been said, the program you changed him to sounds pretty good, and hopefully will continue to produce PR liftrs. I do agree that a grown man who is squatting in the 200's should be able to milk the fastest progress out of linear progression, at least in most instances.

Good luck to both of you.

glenn

Bee Brian
06-14-2011, 02:28 PM
I really want to meet Glenn Pendlay in person and just kiss his hands and tell him how much I appreciate him building the mutant that is Donny Shankle...

And did you know Jon North is a robot? He said it in his blog. Michael Hartman created the blueprint while Pendlay went to NASA to have them create a funny, olympic weightlifting machine that looks exactly like a human being.

Technology has gone far...