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View Full Version : Conjugate Training / Maintaining O-Lifts


Justin McCallon
06-18-2011, 10:26 AM
My actual question is in bold for people that just want to give a quick response without reading much.

I realize there are different philosophies as far as periodization (http://www.elitefts.com/documents/resistance_training.htm). Some prefer conjugate, some like concurrent, some like undulating, etc. I know Glenn Pendlay wrote a "Supertotal" (c&j, snatch, squat, bench, deadlift) routine (http://www.pendlay.com/Training-for-the-Supertotal_df_51.html) that followed Ordinary Concurrent sequencing. I've been doing something similar (basically, that routine + a few accessory lifts) and I've been happy with the results, but they're slowing down a bit and I want to change to conjugate programming. (Just to be clear, I mean conjugate in the big picture ... I realize there can be layers of different kinds of periodization inside each other)

Anyway, my goal very long-term is to be good at CrossFit.
My goal short term (over then next 2 years) is to get my strength up as high as possible.
For the first year, I'm going to focus on the Powerlifts + Press while maintaining Olympic lifting strength and some other general strength (e.g., pull-ups, rows)
For the second year, I'm going to focus on the Olympic Lifts + Press (basically, my press sucks) while maintaining all the other strength.
Then I'll get into the CrossFit stuff.

My plan the first year is to "powerlift" 3-5d/w (probably 60m workouts 2-4x/w and a 2h workout 1x/w) and then do Oly lifts and whatever accessories I should do 1d/w. So, 3-4 days will mean something like (Sumo) deadlift, deep sumo squat, bench, OHP, pull-ups, rows, good mornings, RDLs, and glute-ham raises.
What should I do on the 1d/w for the Olympic lifts to maintain them?

To be clear, I'm a CF pussy and not an O-lifter. My S/B/D maxes are about 175/138/253, and my O-lift maxes are 100/120. I'm 6'4, 100kg. My biggest issues are: my front squat is weak, my knees aren't great (I squat on the snatch but on the clean I do power cleans and my power clean PR is actually 130), my overhead/pressing strength sucks, I have some problems finishing my pull, I round my back a little, sometimes I kettlbell hip pop the bar, and I get under the bar slowly. I think increasing my squat and press strength is going to help a lot for some of these issues. (On Front Squat I did 115 for a paused double yesterday and I can press about 70 for 5 with pauses in between). I'll try to get a video next time I lift.

I do have good coaching as far as form. I lift at Emory or CF Atlanta and there are some good coaches at both. I'm just an unathletic dork that picks up the lifts slowly.

So, yeah, what should I do that 1d/w to maintain the Oly lifts? [b]Are there maybe 1-2 lifts that I should definitely rotate into my powerlifting routine (preferably ones that I would maybe do anyway)?

Also, it looks like I can do lifts with bumpers only once a week, unfortunately. I'm about to start work and the hours are long, so I'm going to be using what is basically a commercial gym every day but Sunday.

Thanks.

Bee Brian
06-18-2011, 10:44 AM
I've never had good experiences mixing the two, but I believe you can get strong by training for either of them.

When training for Olympic weightlifting, you must train squats, cleans, and snatches simultaneously. There is rarely (if ever) an "off-season" where you focus on squats and eliminate the classical lifts.

You CAN be a powerlifter while training as a weightlifter. This is VERY doable. If you want the best conditions for strength, you should do your heavy squats and presses before your speed-oriented lifts. Although this is something that many people find to not be ideal to improve with the classical lifts, if that is not your priority, I don't see why you should not do it.

Justin McCallon
06-19-2011, 03:22 PM
Well, I realize I'm not going to be great at either "sport."

Here is a video from today of me doing the O-Lifts and some assistance work. Maybe it will help folks see where my weak points are if that matters for the advice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TftZRNFuAno&feature=player_detailpage

Bee Brian
06-19-2011, 11:26 PM
I saw the video. For the snatch, you are jumping at the wrong position. Torso must be vertical to the floor BEFORE exploding. This is why you are losing balance.

For your clean. Back angle must stay the same until you get past the first pull. It's the same as the snatch. Get in the proper hang position BEFORE you explode.

Donald Lee
06-20-2011, 05:10 AM
Justin,

I think you need to bring the bar further out in your starting position to get a more vertical back angle. I watched the snatch, and Bee's right. For your snatch, your second pull starts where it should start for the clean.

Greg Everett
06-20-2011, 08:31 AM
What should I do on the 1d/w for the Olympic lifts to maintain them?

If you're only training the lifts 1/week, I would snatch and clean & jerk every time. If you have time, work 1-2 technical exercises related to one of the lifts each time, i.e. week one snatch, CJ and 1-2 snatch-related tech exercises; week 2 snatch, CJ and 1-2 clean-related tech exercises; week 3 snatch, CJ and 1-2 jerk-related tech exercises. Choose the exercises based on your own needs, and you may find you can do something different each time, or you may need to repeat a certain exercise for a period of time.

As far as loading goes on the sn/cj, I would just take it by feel. Go heavy on the days you feel good, and stay lighter and maybe do doubles or even triples on the days you're not feeling as good.