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James Orr
07-03-2011, 09:25 AM
I can't tell you how much I loved Jocelyn's article, and I'd love to hear more about what this actually looked like:

The program was quite different than what I was accustomed to. It consisted of a strength training and Olympic weightlifting progression followed by short, intense metabolic conditioning consisting of mostly non-technical movements (ie: sandbag shouldering, box jumps, pull ups, short sprints, etc.). Strength and technical work like the Olympic lifts, hand stand pushups, and muscle ups, were for the most part performed and developed separately from metabolic conditioning. However, they would be put in to the conditioning workouts periodically for testing under metabolic stress. Besides the strength training progression, rather than randomized training, one of the biggest differences in my program was the lack of endurance type conditioning. Most of the time my workouts were very short (3-12 min) and often consisted of unusual movements (think barbell carries or sand bag half-moons) and 400m, 200m repeats or 100m row sprints. Though every once and a while we would test my 5k run.

I started following The Fitness Conduit when I realized I wasn't really progressing or enjoying mainpage CrossFit. I love The Fitness Conduit, but I'd love to something with more steady, regular work with weightlifting even more. Exercise is something I do for health and enjoyment, and I really enjoy weightlifting.

Could you describe how Jocelyn's program was put together? Or if that's kind of proprietary knowledge, how would you put together a recreational weightlifting/short metcon program where you lift two or three times per week and do two or three metcons?

Blair Lowe
07-03-2011, 01:36 PM
James, check out Justin Lascek's 70'sBig page. I think what this CFWichita program has evolved into was something like that. Or check out Gant's hybrid program but it's not as fleshed out I think as Justin's.

James Orr
07-03-2011, 03:08 PM
Thanks, Blair. I've actually been doing 70's Big for the past few weeks. I'm not sure what the best way to work olympic lifts in instead of the basic barbell lifts would be.

For those that don't know, 70's big is a linear progression program in the spirit of Starting Strength.

Monday
Squat
Military Press
Chin-ups

Tuesday
Power Clean
Dips
Met-con

Thursday
Squat
Bench Press
Dips

Friday
Deadlift
Pull-ups
Met-con

Saturday
Optional met-con

Troy Kerr
07-03-2011, 03:31 PM
Its nothing too complicated, at least with my athletes. The olympic lifting is set up on a certain program, handstand pushups and other gymnastic skills you can just use charts like Steves modified version for gymnastic movements on "The Fundamentals of Bodyweight Training" article from eatmoveimprove.com Power and Strength elements come first, metcons just use some common sense. For example, I do not like doing olympic lifting in metcons in excessive numbers, all we are trying to do for that metcon is fatigue the athlete and make them focus on executing the technique for that lift more. So.I may do something like 5 cleans based off of 40-50% of their 1rm, 10 burpees, 15 situps, for 6 rds with 1 minute rest.This is of course one example. We have had great results this way. I love the article as well. Certain movements are always going to be gassers, burpees, kb swings, wall balls, slam balls, running, etc. I honestly do not beleive that programming for a crossfit games champion is a challenging task, you just have to have the knowledge of when to move certain movements in, and realize that some movements have a greater carry over to other movements than others. You can't develop everything at once. And of course having a patient athlete that is dedicated to training is always nice.

Steven Low
07-04-2011, 07:45 AM
If you're still into competing for CF you would probably want to work more of the Oly stuff for your strength/power work since those are the most technical and will take the longest to become proficient at especially under metabolic stress

Clay Montero
07-04-2011, 08:30 PM
70s Big also has a basic weightlifting program.

See here (http://www.70sbig.com/blog/2009/12/merry-christmas/)

James Orr
07-07-2011, 10:58 PM
It looks like Pendlay's Beginner's Program could be a good fit.

http://www.pendlay.com/A-Training-System-for-Beginning-Olympic-Weightlifters_df_47.html

In a weightlifting program like this with a lot of singles, how long does a person typically resting between lifts? For example, Workout 1 from Pendlay's Beginner Program looks like:

Snatch: 1 x 10
Clean pull + hang clean: 1 x 5
Push Press: 5 x 3
Back Squat: 5 x 3
Complex

If you were waiting 5+ minutes between each snatch like you usually do between max effort lifts, it'd take an hour to get through them. Is that just kind of how it goes when you start getting into the sport?

aldrich marlin
07-07-2011, 11:12 PM
HI all,
The routine mentioned here by James Orr is much helpful and better one in all the aspects and I think that if some one follow that one will surely got the much benefits out there...

James Orr
07-07-2011, 11:53 PM
I think what intimidates me is all the volume. I know how exhausted I feel after getting through a 70's Big workout, and this seems like twice as much volume.

James Orr
07-08-2011, 12:05 AM
I let a friend borrow Greg's book. Argh. Really wish I could look at his beginner's program!

Greg Everett
07-08-2011, 09:25 AM
I let a friend borrow Greg's book. Argh. Really wish I could look at his beginner's program!

Mon
CJ - heavy single; 85% of that x 1 x 3
Snatch - heavy single; 85% of that x 1 x 3
Pull-ups

Tue
Back squat - 5 x 3 / alt w fs
Snatch deadlift - 5 x 3 / alt w cln dl
Push press - 5x5 / alt w sn pp

Thu
Same as Mon w/ snatch first

Fri
OHS - 5x3 / alt w sn bal
Front squat - 5x3 / alt w bs
Clean pull - 5x3 / alt w sn pull

That is a really basic template that should be adjusted based on need.

Aimee Anaya Everett
07-12-2011, 10:47 PM
I can't tell you how much I loved Jocelyn's article, and I'd love to hear more about what this looked like...
Could you describe how Jocelyn's program was put together? Or if that's kind of proprietary knowledge, how would you put together a recreational weightlifting/short metcon program where you lift two or three times per week and do two or three metcons?

hey james-
I designed Jocelyn's program to fit her weaknessess while also getting her stronger, more explosive, and overall well-rounded. I'd be happy to post a sample week, if that's what you are looking for. Keep in mind, hers was very met con heavy.
If you're looking to do more olympic lifting with small met cons, then you should look in to following one of the catalyst main page programs.

Troy Kerr
07-13-2011, 11:51 AM
Aimee-

I'd love to see a sample week. I have been using this style of approach with my competitive xfit athletes with great success, and would love to see how my template compares with a top level coach!

Robert Kikuchi
07-13-2011, 01:29 PM
Aimee,

I would also love to see a sample week if you don't mind. Thanks!

Aimee Anaya Everett
07-31-2011, 07:15 PM
Sorry it has been 13 years since I posted a response. We have been traveling!
Here is a week, somewhere in a second part of a 16 week cycle.
Monday

weights in kilos
BS: 71% X 3 X 10 sets
SN DL (I want you to work positioning here, nice and controlled- not fast! Let’s try this again!): 65 X 3, 70 X 3, 75 X 3 X 2 sets

→5 rounds:
• 5 HSPU
• 5 DU

Tuesday

Power clean: (62 X 2, 67 X 1, 72 X 1) X 2
SN Push Press: 70%X 3 X 3 (% off best snatch)

AMRAMP 6 minutes
3 MU
6 DB thrusters

5 X 30 sec hollow rocks

Wednesday-

FS + Jerk: (72% X 3+1, 76% X 2+1, 80% X 1+1) X 2 rounds (% off best jerk)
(*note 72% X 3 X 1 means 72% for 3 FS + 1 jerk. Make sure you pay attention to the rep changes in these waves)
SLDL: 60kg X 5 X 3 sets

4 sets of 5 box jumps pretty high! Higher than you would use in a metcon. Don’t do these for time, do them for jumping power in your legs. So jump down and reset each time to get a good jump. I want you to try to jump up as high as you can and land flat-footed on top of the box. Rest at least 90 seconds between each set.
3 X 10 weighted sit-ups (25# DB)

NO METCON

Thursday OFF

Friday

Power Snatch + OHS: 45kg X 2 + 2 (2 ps, then 2 ohs), 50kg X 2 + 2, 55kg X 1 + 2 X 3 sets
PP + Jerk: 59kg X 2 + 1, 64kg X 2 +1, 68kg X 2 + 1 for 2 sets

Metcon:

4 rounds:
8 rope pull-ups
8 ring push-ups
8 half moons (ea side)

Saturday
Snatch- 77% X 2, 80% X 2, 83% X 1 X 2sets
Clean & Jerk- 75 % X 1 X 3

5 X 100 m sprints (30 secs rest in between)
rest 2 minutes then
30 burpees

Troy Kerr
08-02-2011, 05:09 PM
Thanks Aimee. Congrats on your last competition, how is the knee?

When training a more highly developed crossfit athletes such as Jocelyn, have you switched to more of a 90% o-lifting cycle with only maintenance for metcon? Or have you found it more successful to stick with a format such as the one you posted?

Also, with the snatch+overhead squat and Front squat+Jerk combo lifts, are these primarily a way to cover more in less time? Or are they better served to develop the lifts whose percentages they are based off of?

James Orr
08-05-2011, 11:12 PM
Sorry it has been 13 years since I posted a response. We have been traveling!

It's OK, it's been 13 years since I checked the thread! Thank you for posting!

ross dijulio
08-06-2011, 01:46 AM
Is there a program/cycle much like the one you designed for Jocelyn that you suggest? I do CF but do not agree with much of the programming hq and other affiliates. I love the way that week designed above looked and was hoping to be pointed in a similar direction, as I do still want to compete in cf. Any help??

James Orr
08-06-2011, 10:55 AM
I'm very interested in both of these questions as well. An article on these things would make a great article for the sight!

When training a more highly developed crossfit athletes such as Jocelyn, have you switched to more of a 90% o-lifting cycle with only maintenance for metcon? Or have you found it more successful to stick with a format such as the one you posted?

I was wondering something similar. With such short metcons, were they just maintaining an aerobic ability/work capacity/whatever, that she already had? Or were they developing it further?

Is there a program/cycle much like the one you designed for Jocelyn that you suggest? I do CF but do not agree with much of the programming hq and other affiliates. I love the way that week designed above looked and was hoping to be pointed in a similar direction, as I do still want to compete in cf. Any help??

This. I mentioned Coach Rut's Fitness Conduit (http://www.bootcampfitnesskc.com/the-fitness-conduit), but if there are any others?

Aimee Anaya Everett
08-23-2011, 06:47 PM
"When training a more highly developed crossfit athletes such as Jocelyn, have you switched to more of a 90% o-lifting cycle with only maintenance for metcon? Or have you found it more successful to stick with a format such as the one you posted?"

I do not ever, even if there is a fire, stick to one format. Highly developed, or not. And I do not stick to a 90% format for the o'lifting cycles. I use progressions and make changes weekly in metcon reps and intensity and/or strength reps and intensity based on performance, body recovery, and life. Also, in weeks that the strength work is reaching 90%+ I adjust the metcon reps accordingly so the body is recovered and prepared for the demands of the strength work, and vice versa.

"Also, with the snatch+overhead squat and Front squat+Jerk combo lifts, are these primarily a way to cover more in less time? Or are they better served to develop the lifts whose percentages they are based off of?"

No, I don't cut corners and try to cover less in more time. Those are used to develop strength, and technique, in the fatigued state. For example, doing a jerk after a clean + a front squat is a lot harder than doing it right after a clean. This is just a way to apply strength in an uncomfortable situation, and build up conditioning in a strength aspect. So essentially, it not only strengthens the lift we may be targeting, but it allows the athlete to develop overall strength, and conditioning, at higher percentages, which ultimately is geared towards increasing the 1RM.

"I was wondering something similar. With such short metcons, were they just maintaining an aerobic ability/work capacity/whatever, that she already had? Or were they developing it further?"

Both. My metcons always have a plan- based on the week, what we are trying to accomplish or develop, and what the athlete's strengths and weaknesses are. Also, they may look short but they are very demanding. A huge misconception, I believe, is that a workout has to be 20+ minutes long, and completely puking insane, for it to be successful.
At this time in the cycle(s) we were working on Joc's ability to string more muscle ups together when fatigued. So the metcon:
AMRAMP 6 minutes
3 MU
6 DB thrusters

was designed so that she could, in hopes, get all 3 MU's unbroken, each round of the 6 minutes. The DB thrusters were heavy, to fatigue her enough that she would have to focus on getting her MU's unbroken, but not too many reps so that she couldn't maintain intensity each round. She was learning to keep the intensity the same every round she did. By keeping the reps short, it allows her to move so quickly that she never has a chance to spend so long on one exercise that she still isn't tired from the last time she did it. Meaning, by only doing 6 DB thrusters, likely she wasn't fully recovered from doing the last 3 MU's, and now she will already have to do them again. These short metcons, which are often heavy or highly skilled, (if you read her article) actually better prepared her for longer metcons then dong long metcons did. It trained her body to keep intensity longer without fatiguing or needing to stop for breaks.

"Is there a program/cycle much like the one you designed for Jocelyn that you suggest? I do CF but do not agree with much of the programming hq and other affiliates. I love the way that week designed above looked and was hoping to be pointed in a similar direction, as I do still want to compete in cf. Any help??"

This programming takes a lot if individualization and unfortunately we do not have a cycle that is general enough that anyone could use it. I could (but I won't) post Jocelyns whole 32 week cycle, or Jolie's or Tamara Holmes, cycles (which are all totally different), or any of my other clients. However, it wouldn't be something that just anyone could do. It was designed for their strengths and weaknesses, while providing them with enough variety, uncomfortableness, and "unknowable's", to prepare them for 3 days of "unknown" and sheer madness. In doing so I would be doing you, or anyone else reading this, a disservice. Jolie's program may not be as effective for you as it was for her. Jocelyn's program may not be good for you. The end results may not be the same. I individualized these programs for them, and often made changes week-to-week based on what was going on in their lives, or how great/shitty they were feeling. I didn't use a general approach that could be used across many different individuals (note: general programs can obviously be very effective for clients or athletes at many different fitness levels, as proven by our Catalyst workout of the days, or our gym programming, however I did not design these programs for that purpose). This is why I do remote programming for people all over the world. We also design "general" strength and metcon programs for gyms to use with their classes. I hope this makes sense.

The catalyst workout of the day has several strength cycles that are amazing and have shown great, amazing results for hundreds of people around the world. It is not as heavily metcon influenced as the example week I have shown, but has conditioning incorporated. You can also choose a cycle that fits your needs here: http://www.cathletics.com/daily/about.php

Or, we do personalized programming, of course.

Troy Kerr
11-03-2011, 09:10 AM
Thanks a lot Aimee. Obviously how close you are to a competition dictates the programming options a bit, but I have a few more questions that I ran into when working with my athletes.

1) When working with a crossfit competitor, do you have labels for the metcons you utilize? Such as max or sub-max anaerobic effort, or aerobic endurance, similar to OPT's site? From what I have read on max anaerobic effort metcons, they should be limited to once a week. But do you try and get in X number of anaerobic session and X number of aerobic sessions a week?

2) How do you organize the strength & conditioning work so that you don't over train throughout the week? Obviously there is common sense, like not doing HSPU work the day before you do a session of heavy jerks. But do you have any methods u use, other than monitoring the athletes recovery, to keep them as ready as possible for each wod? A rule I use is that if there was an eccentric load on the hips on day 1, day 2 I try to select a lower body movement for the metcon that dosent have such a taxing eccentric load, like Thrusters on day 1, double unders or box jumps day 2.

3) How would you go about prepping an athlete for higher volume workouts? Obviously increasing strength numbers helps tremendously, and training for something like 5 rounds of: 30 wall ball and 30 snatch does more harm than good. But if you utilize higher intensity, lower duration mecons primarily, should a coach program a wod aiming for similar intensity, but just getting them comfortable with higher reps?

Aimee Anaya Everett
11-30-2011, 11:08 AM
I am so sorry for my late reply! Somehow I had missed your questions!

1- I do not label my metcons. I program metcons depending on how the person is feeling that day/week and also depending on their strength work and what they will be doing next week. I have found often times if I label it as a “max effort” it will actually mess them up because they will focus less on their form and cycle times because they are trying so hard to go fast in order to beat a time. I instead will tell them, I want you to do this metcon at 85% intensity. Or 100% intensity, or even 50% intensity. I have found that this does not mess with the athlete mentally, and they often get a better time than previously, and they do so with good movement. I understand that athletes competing for the Games need to be prepared for the “unknown and unknowable”, however they only need to do that for 2-3 days per year. So I strongly believe that focusing on movement and cycle times and consistency in intensity per round throughout the year is just making the individual a better athlete. If he or she can sustain good movement longer in a metcon, it will prevent them from getting fatigued so early on in the workout. This will (hopefully) eventually lead to them being able to get better times because they are not hitting a wall so soon. For example, if there is a workout that is 5 rounds of 5 muscle-ups, 10 cleans, 15 KB swings- if they can have good movement with 10 cleans per round, and their clean doesn’t fatigue on round 2 due to crappy movement, then they will go in to their KB swings feeling fresh, which will keep them moving fast in to the next round. The longer they can sustain this, the less fatigued they will be going in to the next workout. This is what I try to prepare my athletes for. So no, I do not try to get in a certain amount of those sessions in a week. I focus on preparing the athlete depending on what they need each week.


2- Sometimes I want the athlete to be tired when doing a workout, so they are forced to focus on their movement (you may see a trend here…. I am BIG on movement first). But I do it in a smart way. I would never program a heavy squat workout or heavy cleans (or even high volume squats or cleans at a lower percentage) and then heavy thrusters (or high volume at lower percentage) in the metcon on the same day. I may instead day heavy power cleans, and then include thrusters in the workout. So the athlete may be tired because of the heavy power cleans, but their legs won’t be so tired that doing heavy thrusters on the same day won’t destroy them for the rest of the week (because they didn’t have to do a squat in that power clean- power cleans are a power/explosive movement and not as demanding on the legs).

Also, I never ever, even if there is a fire, program more than 5 box jumps in a workout. I do this because 1 (and most importantly), they are dangerous at high volume and can cause all kinds of injury, and 2, because I believe the jumps should be quality versus quantity and 3, I believe they fatigue the legs for other strength work we need to accomplish during the week. And even this is rare- and when I do program them in I make the athlete slow down and focus on a good quality jump, not some rapid springy jump. I prefer to program box jumps separately, like at the end of a workout do 3 sets of 5 box jumps- this way we can work on explosiveness and power without sacrificing such an amazing exercise by trying to make an athlete do it for speed.

3- I think that higher volume metcons are unnecessarily done too often. I MAYBE program one in every 10-12 days. I think the way I program and plan, and sneak extra reps in to the workouts (for example, I may change the muscle up rep scheme from 3 to 4 to 5) prepare my athletes for those longer metcons, without having to do them all the time. I think doing lots of longer metcons just breaks the athlete down in so many ways. It takes away from their power and just are so hard to recover from. Jocelyn talks about this in her article: “…and I had extensively practiced my skills separately from metabolic conditioning, I could string together multiple muscle ups for the first time and complete 20 hand stand pushups without batting an eye. And though I was rarely doing long metcons when I tested my 5k it went from 30 minutes, to 25, to 21. I looked better, I felt better, and I my performance was top notch. I was becoming the fittest I had ever been.”. She didn’t have to run 5k’s each week to get those PR’s. In fact, the only time she ran a 5k is when she got the PRs. I had prepared her in other ways that didn’t effect her overall training.

Hope this helps!

Troy Kerr
01-11-2012, 07:33 PM
I appreciate all the insight Aimee. I know the busier someones schedule gets the harder it can be to take the time to reply to these question, very much appreciated!