View Full Version : question about core strength
05-16-2012, 01:11 AM
hello.i am 10 years olympic weightlifter.i have a major problem in front squat.i have stuck and i cant improve any more.my best front squat is 130 kgr for 8 months now.i believe the major problem is the core or upper back strength problem because when the load goes above 90% my upper back become kuphotic.a friend of mine told me to perform abs-lats exercise between squat sets to strengthen the core.also i read in the net that if the rhomboids and upper back muscles will be stronger this help in front squat,so i think to start face pulls and power raise for strengthen the rhomboids muscles.because i am little confused can you give me some advices to start a training program for core muscles?how often is ideal to train the core,with how many exercises and how many sets and reps?(i ask for these parametres because i dont want to overtrain)..i am looking forward to hearing for you...eg:also i have along femur and my somatotype isnt the best for squat
05-16-2012, 10:34 AM
Do more front squats with weights that allow you to maintain a perfect position - build up a lot of volume there.
Make sure you have good thoracic spine mobility - if you can't extend the upper back adequately, it will be much harder to maintain the correct posture.
Good mornings focusing on upper back extension, back extensions, bent rows w focus on upper back extension.
Also make sure you have adequate ankle and hip flexibility - if you have long femurs and poor flexibility, your hips will be tor far back, and the torque on your upper back will increase, making it even harder to maintain proper extension.
05-16-2012, 10:37 AM
You can front squat every day if you want - maybe 70-75% or so for triples, 5 sets or a few more, just to build up the volume of proper squatting. Focus on extending the upper back forcefully and reduce the weight if you're losing the proper position. You can do some or all of these as pause squats, making sure to force the extension as you rise from the bottom.
Also make sure when you recover that you're keeping your head up, not tilting it down/forward.
Good mornings, 3-5 sets of 5-8 reps, 2-4 days/wk. Bent rows 3-5 sets of 8-15, 2-3 days/wk.
05-21-2012, 12:16 AM
hello greg for your advice.it was very helpful.a last question.for how long to train lwith this way in front squat(with this volume and intensity?).for 8-12 week cycle?at the end of this cycle is ideal to attempt maximum attempt in front squat or earlier?thank you again for your help...
05-21-2012, 08:40 AM
I would try maybe 6 weeks - you should be able to get significant progress in that time frame. You can always return to it later.
You can try a max fs at the end of it; if your back is really limiting you and you get it considerably stronger, you may make a PR. But it won't be a strength program in the purest sense, so you may not see a PR, but what you're trying to do is shore up a weakness that's holding you back. After you make progress with that, you can push the overall strength more.
05-21-2012, 08:51 AM
thank you again for your response...greg can ask you some general questions for weightlifting training in the near future?than you again for your help...
eg:in good morning and bent over rows is ideal to try increase the weight each week or to stay with same weight for the certain number of reps in this 6-week period?
05-21-2012, 08:53 AM
you can ask all the questions you want on this forum - i do my best to answer.
Re good mornings and bent rows, try to increase slightly every 1-2 sessions as tolerated. In both cases make the back extension a priority over the weight itself.
05-23-2012, 06:25 AM
hello greg.thank you for the useful informations which gave to me.now i want to ask a few question more about weightlifting training:
1)i have a little problem to keep the right position in second pull in snatch.is haltind deadlift from 2'' inches platform a good assistance exercise to strengthen the muscles for this position?2)because my long femur i have the bad habit sometimes to start the first pull with the toes and not with the heels(but not too much so the barbell goes forward and lose the right position to pull the bar is second pull phase).do you know any exercise which help me?also i wear the adidas shoes which havent wooden heel.this shoe makes me to pull with the toe or isnt a problem for this habit?(i read your article about technique and long leg and it was terrific.3)if a lifter has the habit to raise the hips faster than the legs in the beginning of the snatch/clean a good assistance exercise to strengthen lowe back and hamstring is to slowdown the barbell asnatch/clean pull and fix this problem?4)which is your opinion about snatch/clean with small weights or from 2''inches platform?is good choice for a lifter who has weak first pull?my friend these are my question i hope you casn to answer to it and help me.i am looking forward to hearing for you...
05-23-2012, 02:13 PM
1)i have a little problem to keep the right position in second pull in snatch.is haltind deadlift from 2'' inches platform a good assistance exercise to strengthen the muscles for this position?
Yes, this is a good exercise. You can also do this exercise without letting the bar touch the floor - bring it down as close to the floor without touching as possible.
2)because my long femur i have the bad habit sometimes to start the first pull with the toes and not with the heels(but not too much so the barbell goes forward and lose the right position to pull the bar is second pull phase).do you know any exercise which help me?also i wear the adidas shoes which havent wooden heel.this shoe makes me to pull with the toe or isnt a problem for this habit?(i read your article about technique and long leg and it was terrific.
You can do halting snatch deadlifts to the knee - focus on perfect posture and immediately shifting your weight back as you lift the bar, so that when you stop at the knee, your position and balance are correct. These don't need to be very heavy - use only a weight that allows you to do it properly.
3)if a lifter has the habit to raise the hips faster than the legs in the beginning of the snatch/clean a good assistance exercise to strengthen lowe back and hamstring is to slowdown the barbell asnatch/clean pull and fix this problem?
Yes, doing snatches and cleans with a slow first pull will help correct the problem along wiith the halting snatch/clean deadlifts to both the knee and the hip/upper thigh.
4)which is your opinion about snatch/clean with small weights or from 2''inches platform?is good choice for a lifter who has weak first pull?
If you're on a platform, you shouldn't also need small weights - use small weights only if you don't have a platform. If the platform is too high, you can't get into a good start position. You want to add some additional range of motion but not change the mechanics of the movement, so usually 2-4" platform is enough.
05-24-2012, 03:04 AM
thank you greg for the anwer to my questions.also i want to tell you that in my club we have a 4'' inch platform but is too high for me to start from here in the snatch but in clean is ok.so i perform the snatch and snatch pulls with small weight for increase the range of motion and strngthen the first pull.i perform dobles -triples with 70-85% from my best snatch-clean(in snatch with small weights and clean from 4''inch platform).is ideal to perform max attempts in this exercise or not?also in halting deadlift to knee is ideal to stop at the knee for 3 sec for example?weights with 80-100% from my best snatch for 3 reps for 3-5 sets is good to perform or you suggest anything else?thank you again for the help.i am looking forward to hearing for you
05-28-2012, 02:58 PM
Don't do max attempts in pulls/halting DLs - you want to basically train them as heavy as you can with perfect positions - if you go to max, you will be far from perfect positions, and you'll only be strengthening bad habits and existing improper strength distributions.
05-31-2012, 03:16 AM
thank you greg for the response.aone more question.in jerk when a lifter has weak drive and has a difficulty to go to heels and push the weight you recommend any exercises to fix this problem?
05-31-2012, 12:45 PM
Jerk dip squats, jerk springs, pause jerk, push press, power & push jerk
06-01-2012, 08:43 AM
thank you for the response greg?what exercise is jerk springs?can you describe it?
06-01-2012, 09:30 AM
Hold the bar in the jerk rack position, dip, and bounce out of the bottom of your dip - don't need to extend all the way back up, just work on a nice springy movement in and out of the bottom of the dip position.
06-02-2012, 03:40 PM
In the model where you suggest working on FS @70-75% everyday, what would you do with BS in that time?
If you wanted to work out a technical fault in BS as well could you just alternate the days?
Thanks for any help!
06-03-2012, 09:31 AM
If you're really focusing on FS, just forget BS for that period. If you want to do both, you could do something simple like alternate FS/BS every 2 days and alternate heavy/light each day, but still get the lower intensity volume in for postural work, e.g.
FS - 70% x 3 x 5, then up to 80-90%
FS - 70% x 3 x 5
BS - 70% x 3 x 5, then up to 80-90%
BS - 70% x 3 x 5
FS - 70% x 2 x 5, then up to 80-90%
FS - 70% x 2 x 5
06-04-2012, 01:00 PM
Thanks Greg, so I would treat as a volume phase for 6 weeks then move to something with less vol and a higher intensity?
06-04-2012, 02:18 PM
yes. you could drop the light days entirely and build on the heavy days as appropriate.
06-08-2012, 06:45 AM
hello greg again.i want to one quick question.when a lifter has a problem to keep strong position in start in clean and snatch and has problem in second pull phase because he hasnt the best position to go under the bar how he can plan a program with exercises like halting deadlift(from the floor or 5 cm platform) or other exercises for this problem.can you give me a sample week program(4-5 sessions the week) to help me to see which exercises is better to use for this problem.also your front squat program goes very good,thank you...
06-08-2012, 09:25 AM
Anytime you would normally do snatch or clean pulls, you can just add halting deadlifts first, or do a complex with halting DL or pause pull + pull.
so for example:
halting snatch DL - 4x3
snatch pull - 3x3
power cln, pwr jerk
halting cln DL
sn, cj, squat, pause pull for worse lift, eg sn
06-15-2012, 06:05 AM
hello greg again and i want to thank you for your advices.i want to ask you if you want to strengthen the clean bottom position and perform squat 3 -4 days the week is too much to perform pause front squat 2 times the week(70-80% for 4-5 sets of 2-3 reps) and the other two times to perform back squat normally?do you suggest anything else?
06-15-2012, 09:39 AM
No, you can squat 5-6 days/week no problem as long as you're conditioned for it. I'm reluctant to recommend you do pause front squats, though - the front squat should mainly be used to prepare directly for the clean, so you want to practice the speed in the bottom and the bounce that would occur in a clean. If you practice pause front squats a lot, you can end up finding your cleans suffer. What you can try is doing a set with both pause and regular front squats - that is, any set of front squats you're doing with pauses, make sure that at least the last rep is a regular front squat.
06-15-2012, 12:22 PM
thank you fotr the answer.which is your opinion about front squat from bottom position?it helps to strengthen the legs for raise from clean bottom position?
06-15-2012, 02:18 PM
yes, but it's hard to set up. you can just do pause FS with a 3+ second pause
06-19-2012, 06:48 AM
hello greg!if i send you a photo of my somtotype you can give me advices for the starting position in snatch and c&j?
06-19-2012, 09:17 AM
I'd rather see a video of you lifting.
06-20-2012, 06:44 AM
please can you send me your e-mail to send you the videos because i cant upload in the forum?
06-21-2012, 10:01 AM
send it to firstname.lastname@example.org
06-25-2012, 01:32 PM
Starting positions are fine. Squat positions are causing trouble though. Try moving your feet out a little wider and turning your toes out a little more so you can sit down rather than backward.
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