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Dave Van Skike
03-25-2007, 12:31 PM
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Dave Van Skike
03-25-2007, 12:38 PM
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Dave Van Skike
03-25-2007, 12:42 PM
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Dave Van Skike
03-25-2007, 12:46 PM
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Dave Van Skike
03-25-2007, 12:50 PM
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Dave Van Skike
03-25-2007, 12:52 PM
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Dave Van Skike
03-25-2007, 12:55 PM
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Dave Van Skike
03-25-2007, 01:00 PM
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Dave Van Skike
03-25-2007, 01:06 PM
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Dave Van Skike
03-25-2007, 01:08 PM
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Dave Van Skike
03-25-2007, 01:11 PM
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Dave Van Skike
03-25-2007, 01:17 PM
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Dave Van Skike
03-25-2007, 01:17 PM
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Dave Van Skike
03-25-2007, 01:22 PM
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Dave Van Skike
03-25-2007, 01:26 PM
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Dave Van Skike
03-25-2007, 01:31 PM
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Dave Van Skike
03-25-2007, 01:33 PM
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Dave Van Skike
03-25-2007, 01:41 PM
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Dave Van Skike
03-25-2007, 01:44 PM
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Dave Van Skike
03-25-2007, 03:52 PM
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Rick Deckart
03-26-2007, 09:24 AM
Thank you Dave, I really appreciate that and no I am most definitely NOT the only one reading this thread!

That's some pretty good lifting you are doing! Later more...

Dave Van Skike
03-26-2007, 01:27 PM
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Dave Van Skike
03-28-2007, 03:33 PM
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Dave Van Skike
04-02-2007, 02:20 PM
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Dave Van Skike
04-03-2007, 08:33 PM
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Dave Van Skike
04-04-2007, 09:07 AM
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Dave Van Skike
04-07-2007, 03:40 PM
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Dave Van Skike
04-07-2007, 03:47 PM
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Rick Deckart
04-14-2007, 02:04 AM
How is your back doing Dave? Will you incorporate some partial deadlifts into your routine or do you intend to ride the cycle out before you switch into it?

Dave Van Skike
04-16-2007, 02:02 PM
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Dave Van Skike
04-17-2007, 11:51 AM
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Rick Deckart
04-18-2007, 01:15 PM
Good to hear that you are well. I started my little working the rack down/progessive pulls routine and still hit PRs every time I try partial deadlifts. It is however a pretty taxing endevour for me. I think if I would do partials more than once every two weeks I would burn out pretty soon.

Have you tried band presses for you overhead work? Last december I did these on a irregular basis, a couple of singles whenever I saw fit, supersetted with assisted one arm chins and they did help a lot.

Dave Van Skike
04-18-2007, 01:52 PM
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Rick Deckart
04-19-2007, 10:45 AM
Congrats, that pretty good in my non-expert eyes, especially considering this is your first rack pulls sessions. In my experience (sample size N = 1) you can expect to improve that top set every session for quite some time. I bet you won't need long to pull 300kg for a single... Actually 570 x 3 reps should already translate to something along the lines of 600+ for a single, impressive indeed. (Dear other readers keep in mind I am weak...)

Dave Van Skike
04-19-2007, 11:29 AM
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Rick Deckart
04-19-2007, 11:35 AM
TOne thing I'm wondering though is if I should gradually increase the reps in the upper positon or just stay with low reps and gradually work down the rack.

Defintly see this working my weak points. I got much more solid contraction from my upper back and abdominals.

Well from my conversations with Sumo who is pound for pound one of the strongest partial deadlifters I heard of (525kg @ 78kg bodyweight!) I take that over the knees lower reps work extremely well, while below the knees and working down the rack higher reps work equally well. And personally I am trying to follow that advice. If memory serves he also argued to work down the rack from a point below the knees to avoid that no-mans land around the knees. I once tried partials form knee heights and that did not work well... I also once tried a 10 rep backoff set after partial singles and could do this well above, that is ~20kg over my current deadlift max. But that left me sore, really sore for a couple of days...

Dave Van Skike
04-19-2007, 01:55 PM
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Dave Van Skike
04-21-2007, 01:51 PM
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Rick Deckart
04-24-2007, 11:23 AM
Two PRs in one sessions? Deadlift and squats? Congratulations, you are doing very well in my non expert eyes! I have to try the Texas method some time too. Expect the DVD any day.

Dave Van Skike
04-24-2007, 11:44 AM
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Rick Deckart
04-30-2007, 12:11 PM
Hi Dave, are you still around?

Dave Van Skike
04-30-2007, 01:40 PM
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Dave Van Skike
05-03-2007, 09:33 AM
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Dave Van Skike
05-04-2007, 01:54 PM
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Dave Van Skike
05-07-2007, 01:57 PM
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Dave Van Skike
05-09-2007, 01:48 PM
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Dave Van Skike
05-10-2007, 01:42 PM
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Dave Van Skike
05-11-2007, 05:20 PM
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Dave Van Skike
05-15-2007, 10:44 AM
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Dave Van Skike
05-15-2007, 01:46 PM
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Dave Van Skike
05-17-2007, 11:18 AM
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Dave Van Skike
05-17-2007, 01:33 PM
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Dave Van Skike
05-21-2007, 01:25 PM
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Rick Deckart
05-22-2007, 01:53 PM
Worked up to back squat of....

325x1. PR

Work up to deadlift of...

413x....Scratch, Fucking DL is stuck at 405...May be time to quite messing with Texas and return to the original template as written in PP~ Power Cleans on Monday, DL on Wed.

My partial DL was moving ok, snatch grip DL was working fine too. May need more speed off the floor. I dunno..

Suggestions??

Not really, although perhaps one PR per session is enough... did you use straps for the 413? Maybe you are just tired, you rack pulled 425x3x2 three days ago. If I would do that, with so short rest inbetween (remember I am 43) I would be toast for quite a while...

I had the best success with partial DLs (I hate the DL...) doing them freestyle, at least a month rest between sessions or as long as I need to feel strong enough to try it, and then pulling a couple of singles. Of course after these sessions I need at least a month till I am ready to repeat such an effort...

Dave Van Skike
05-22-2007, 02:15 PM
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Dave Van Skike
05-23-2007, 01:35 PM
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Dave Van Skike
05-26-2007, 03:03 PM
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Dave Van Skike
05-30-2007, 01:37 PM
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Rick Deckart
05-30-2007, 01:39 PM
Good man, two PRs are enough for a day...

Dave Van Skike
05-30-2007, 01:46 PM
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Rick Deckart
05-31-2007, 11:26 AM
You make me curious...how would that protocol look like?

By the way if I were you I would forget about doing the DL without any gear and use straps, belts, whatever at least for the heavier warmup sets. You probably already have 425+ in you. For example with my (admittedly crappy) partials I usually encounter the problem to time/set the warmup sets in a manner which allows a) the maximum top weight without b) tiring me so much that a) won't happen. If I make bigger steps it takes less lifts to get to the top weight but the last step may be to steep---if I take more lifts each lift will fascilitate the next one, but I have only so much lifts in me, certainly less than 8--10 during a session. Unless of course I go for 10 minutes rest breaks where I need to cope with problem c) the cooldown between attempts...

Dave Van Skike
05-31-2007, 01:19 PM
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Rick Deckart
06-02-2007, 11:57 AM
Well what are your PRs with the OHS for a single and for three or five? In other words, were do you stand now? If you really focus on this excercise for a while I wouldn't worry much about the other big lifts. If my experience as an (at best) intermediate lifter is anywhere close to what the average gym rat has to expect, these lifts will certainly not drop, but may indeed even gain...

Dave Van Skike
06-02-2007, 12:42 PM
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Rick Deckart
06-02-2007, 12:59 PM
You can backsquat much more, so it's clearly something which has to do with wrists, arms, shoulders, balance etc.

I used the John Bott squat rehabilitation program and in my opinion with the overhead squat it is a good idea to start low before any advanced progression. With your backsquat something like:

20.0kg x 13 reps x 3 sets 780.0kg
20.0kg x 13 reps x 5 sets 1300.0kg
20.0kg x 13 reps x 8 sets 2080.0kg
20.0kg x 13 reps x 10 sets 2600.0kg
20.0kg x 13 reps x 13 sets 3380.0kg
22.5kg x 12 reps x 5 sets 1350.0kg
22.5kg x 12 reps x 8 sets 2160.0kg
22.5kg x 12 reps x 10 sets 2700.0kg
22.5kg x 12 reps x 12 sets 3240.0kg
36.0kg x 11 reps x 5 sets 1980.0kg
36.0kg x 11 reps x 8 sets 3168.0kg
36.0kg x 11 reps x 11 sets 4356.0kg
45.0kg x 10 reps x 5 sets 2250.0kg
45.0kg x 10 reps x 10 sets 4500.0kg
52.5kg x 9 reps x 9 sets 4252.5kg
60.0kg x 8 reps x 8 resp 3840.0kg
65.0kg x 7 reps x 7 reps 3185.0kg

followed after some weeks with the same cycle but with 50% more weight would do the trick I guess.

If you can overhead squat 90kg for 8 reps x 8 sets your are damn close to 15 OHS with bodyweight.

Yeah I know the first two mini-cycles look as if one could skip them, but that would be a big mistake. These cycles are the key to the whole cycle in my opinion. They prepare for the rigours to come.

Pullups could in fact be supersetted with this schedule but that would be a horrible program for diehard hardcore trainee, although I am pretty sure it would work. One would need to deload the pullups during the first cycles and be very cautious for the slightest sign of overuse though.

Dave Van Skike
06-05-2007, 11:54 AM
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Dave Van Skike
06-05-2007, 02:00 PM
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Rick Deckart
06-07-2007, 08:53 AM
It will be interesting to see how you will cope with it, a word of advice though:

The most difficult session (mentally) despite the low loading is session 5 of the progression (13x13), followed by session 9 (12x12) and session 12 (11x11), although session 12 is a lot easier mentally than 5 and 9. Make sure that at least session 5 and 9 fall on the light day. For session 5 this will happen naturally, leave the OHS out on the medium and heavy day afterwards and it will happen for session 9 too. After that you have to see how you cope with the steeper progression. Don't hesitate to do only two OHS sessions a week if it necessary.
The nice thing about this high volume low loading sessions is they tell you exactly were your weaknesses are: wrists, elbows, shoulders. When I first did this cycle I got some inflammation of my right thumb after session three, nothing serious but I could hardly believe that squatting with an empty barbell for 13 reps had such an effect on me. I used ice water after the sessions and sometimes between sets. After session 9 the pain disappeared.

Rick Deckart
06-08-2007, 11:31 AM
By the way, your log is the second highest rated log when one sorts the logs according to their rating...

Dave Van Skike
06-08-2007, 02:00 PM
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Rick Deckart
06-09-2007, 03:47 AM
If you have no problems including session 5 (13x13@20kg) I would consider using a slightly steeper progression for the second mini-cycle, for example 12 reps @ 27.5kg.

If you really still want to start a second OHS cycle after session 17 I would probably use a slightly different progression if 15 OHS with BW (I know I said 50% more weight above, but for the first three or four mini-cycles you can handle it more aggressive...) is the main goal, for example:

1. 47.5kg x 13 reps x 3 sets 39 reps 1852.5kg
2. 47.5kg x 13 reps x 5 sets 65 reps 3087.5kg
3. 47.5kg x 13 reps x 8 sets 104 reps 4940.0kg
4. 47.5kg x 13 reps x 10 sets 130 reps 6175.0kg
5. 47.5kg x 13 reps x 13 sets 169 reps 8027.5kg
6. 55.0kg x 12 reps x 5 sets 60 reps 3300.0kg
7. 55.0kg x 12 reps x 8 sets 96 reps 5280.0kg
8. 55.0kg x 12 reps x 10 sets 120 reps 6600.0kg
9. 55.0kg x 12 reps x 12 sets 144 reps 7920.0kg
10. 62.5kg x 11 reps x 5 sets 55 reps 3437.5kg
11. 62.5kg x 11 reps x 8 sets 88 reps 5500.0kg
12. 62.5kg x 11 reps x 11 sets 121 reps 7562.5kg
13. 70.0kg x 10 reps x 5 sets 50 reps 3500.0kg
14. 70.0kg x 10 reps x 10 sets 100 reps 7000.0kg
15. 80.0kg x 9 reps x 9 sets 81 reps 6480.0kg
16. 90.0kg x 8 reps x 8 resp 64 reps 5760.0kg
17. 100.0kg x 7 reps x 7 reps 49 reps 4900.0kg

Note that session 5 has the highest volume and note that the last session of each further mini-cycle has a slightly lower volume. Note also that the other sessions of each further mini-cycle have higher volume than the respective sessions of the first mini-cycle. Finally session 15, 16 and 17 are a modest volume taper. In my experience this works remarkable well.

This progression will be somewhat harder, but the additional volume helps later in the cycle AND you should be able to do it after cycle one. On those days were you don't train the OHS (to get the high volume session in sync with the light day) you could try OHS supports instead, for example 3 to 4 sets of 15--20 seconds each, starting with something between 60--70kg and adding weight every time you do these sessions up to bodyweight. That's the whole problem with 15 OHS, holding bodyweight over head for approx a minute and keeping it balanced while doing squats.

But these are just a couple of suggestions...

Dave Van Skike
06-11-2007, 07:13 PM
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Dave Van Skike
06-13-2007, 02:57 PM
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Rick Deckart
06-15-2007, 05:05 AM
If you stick to three session/week doing OHS every other session is a good compromise. That would mean alternating weeks with two OHS sessions and weeks with only one OHS session. I would try some dislocates etc before you start them and probably also doing them first in the session.

Grip a wooden stick wide and do some dislocates in slow motion, full range of course, regrip a little less wide repeat etc. until you are a couple of cms narrower than your OHS grip. Also check if you grip the bar correctly.

It is an extremely boring program to say the least, therefore I prefer to think in minicycles rather than the full cycle.

Dave Van Skike
06-15-2007, 07:56 PM
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Elliot Royce
06-16-2007, 11:19 AM
nice work...some heavy weights there!

Dave Van Skike
06-16-2007, 02:38 PM
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Dave Van Skike
06-19-2007, 01:58 PM
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Dave Van Skike
06-22-2007, 11:06 AM
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Dave Van Skike
06-25-2007, 01:48 PM
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Dave Van Skike
06-27-2007, 01:45 PM
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Dave Van Skike
07-01-2007, 04:34 PM
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Dave Van Skike
07-02-2007, 01:22 PM
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Dave Van Skike
07-03-2007, 01:16 PM
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Dave Van Skike
07-09-2007, 01:21 PM
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Dave Van Skike
07-10-2007, 01:49 PM
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Dave Van Skike
07-12-2007, 01:37 PM
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Dave Van Skike
07-13-2007, 01:38 PM
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Rick Deckart
07-14-2007, 12:11 PM
Excellent work!

Dave Van Skike
07-14-2007, 12:39 PM
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Rick Deckart
07-14-2007, 12:43 PM
Don't be in awe, he once had maxes comparable to yours, guranteed.

Today I watched a 14 year old weightlifter with very good technique; 60kg bodyweight and a total of 205kg (90/115) and he is not the best of the pack...

Dave Van Skike
07-16-2007, 01:34 PM
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Dave Van Skike
07-17-2007, 01:34 PM
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Dave Van Skike
07-19-2007, 01:31 PM
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Dave Van Skike
07-21-2007, 12:46 PM
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Dave Van Skike
07-24-2007, 01:17 PM
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Dave Van Skike
07-25-2007, 01:51 PM
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Rick Deckart
07-26-2007, 11:21 AM
How do you warmup for these 20 min rounds? I know you mentioned the Dan John warmup above but do you do some reps with lower weights before counting the money sets or do you start right away?

Dave Van Skike
07-26-2007, 12:02 PM
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Rick Deckart
07-26-2007, 12:22 PM
Thanks Dave. That sounds good. In my earlier days I never wasted much time with warmups, with hindsight that was a mistake. I had the opportunity to watch the current german champion in his age (14) and weight class (60kg) do a olympic lifting training session. For every exercise he started with an empty barbell and worked his way up to the money sets. Granted his session take 2 hours each at the very least but given he does currently six sessions and will be doing eight sessions per week soon, this seems to be the better path to walk. I try to follow these lines but sometimes I simply don't have the time...

Dave Van Skike
08-01-2007, 01:32 PM
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Dave Van Skike
08-07-2007, 11:28 AM
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Dave Van Skike
08-07-2007, 08:24 PM
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Dave Van Skike
08-09-2007, 01:17 PM
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Rick Deckart
08-16-2007, 09:12 AM
Pretty good Dave, your on vacation or are you following some secret routine not meant for the public?

Dave Van Skike
08-16-2007, 12:43 PM
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Rick Deckart
08-16-2007, 01:30 PM
You have my sympathy whatever the bad news is. Your not alone btw. My father in law in dying (could be hours, days or weeks...) and my father got a brain stroke, infected himself with MRSA, has to stay in islolation round the clock (you have to wear protection gear when you visit him) and is in pretty bad shape. Such is life...

Dave Van Skike
08-18-2007, 06:12 PM
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Rick Deckart
08-24-2007, 12:25 PM
Dave, sorry for my late reply, to many issues which require my full attention are going on right now.

I am very sorry to hear about this tragic loss. Very sad, suicide is a terrible affair, especially for those left behind.

All the open questions and no answers... Over the years I lost two closely related persons due to suicide and know all to well how you must feel. My condolence and may he or she rest in peace.

This may be an inappropriate comment in this context, but I would regret if you would close you log.

Best wishes,

Peter

Dave Van Skike
08-27-2007, 02:09 PM
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Dave Van Skike
09-11-2007, 09:59 AM
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Dave Van Skike
09-11-2007, 10:04 AM
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Yuen Sohn
09-11-2007, 09:13 PM
Dave,
I'm so happy to hear that you're able to make training a part of your life once again. Best of luck with everything and feel free to drop in and let us know when you hit some big PRs.

Yoon

Dave Van Skike
03-07-2008, 02:49 PM
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Dave Van Skike
03-10-2008, 09:58 AM
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James Evans
03-10-2008, 10:11 AM
Well done. And welcome back...

Allen Yeh
03-10-2008, 10:13 AM
305 front squat PR

Sweet. What is your back squat PR right now? Does the 80% thing hold true?

Rick Deckart
03-10-2008, 12:04 PM
Hi Dave, it's been a while...nice lifting man!

Dave Van Skike
03-10-2008, 12:18 PM
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Dave Van Skike
03-11-2008, 09:40 PM
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Dave Van Skike
03-18-2008, 08:00 PM
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Allen Yeh
03-19-2008, 03:13 AM
PR box squats, work up to 305x5 to low box.

almost PR squat, 385x3. Second was at parallel. scratch.

axle cleans, axle power snatches.

looking forward to those same PR's but with a 4 in front of them. goal for this year, 400 pound front squat, 500 back, 600 dead.

Nice goals. Once all this easter travel craziness is done I really need to sit down and make some goals.

Dave Van Skike
03-19-2008, 07:14 AM
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Dave Van Skike
03-22-2008, 03:51 PM
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Allen Yeh
03-24-2008, 03:11 AM
This single thing has made the biggest difference in how I train instead of fooling with generalized goal of
fitness across a broad blah blah blah.

True, this is the vague area I've been in for a while. Nothing focused, with no time deadlines. Although I was doing pretty good when I was trying to hit that CrossFit North Standards thing 2 years ago. Right now looking over the list I don't even have an interest in doing half the things at level 3, hah.

Dave Van Skike
03-24-2008, 09:29 AM
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Allen Yeh
03-25-2008, 11:23 AM
That CFN thing is a pretty big list. You've got a lot of irons in the fire already if I recall. That big nasty diet is enough to keep focus.

We actually finished last week with the transition period right now. So I've been looking around at goals for the short and longer term.

Dave Van Skike
03-26-2008, 11:23 AM
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Arden Cogar Jr.
03-26-2008, 11:44 AM
Dave,
Absolutely fantastic work. Keep it up. I love stone lifting myself. I have a bunch of natural stones around the house that I do various things with. I also have a nice 6' enloader tire; she's a beaut. A friend gave me the tire, but I haven't got into flipping it yet. We'll see when the weather gets warm.

Keep up. Your squat and dead are moving up nicely.

All the best,
Arden

Dave Van Skike
03-26-2008, 01:33 PM
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Derek Simonds
03-27-2008, 04:09 AM
It's funny but my goals for this year are based off a conversation with Shaf a year ago. I will never forget that he said any male should be able to hit a 300 LB FS, 400 LB BS and 500 LB DL. Last year my total focus was on O/Lifts, this year I am continuing on O/Lifts but starting on my Shaf total as I think of it. My end of the year goals are 250, 300, 400 at minimum working towards the 300, 400, 500.

I am doing a Crossfit total on Saturday at Leo's place so I should get a good idea where I am currently. The first pulling I have done in a year was this week.

Very nice PR's.

Gant Grimes
03-27-2008, 07:01 AM
PR 445 x 3 Dl

First time on atlas stones, loaded a 225 to a 48" box. 190 stone for 5.
super fun lift. starts off the floor like a rdl, then turns to a zercher, ends with a hard high hip snap like a power snatch.

Dave, what is the relationship between your DL and the weight of the stone you can lift? I started messing with the stones last week. I pull in the low to mid 4's, but I can't budge the stones (not sure how much they weigh--someone suggested 275+).

Good job on the PRs.

Thank You Arden.

If I may, a question for you. How do you fold in odd object work? I'm fairly focused on getting my dead, squat and press up. I can really see where stones and tire flips etc woudl be a good complement, the question is where to put it? on an assitence day or hit it after the tops sets in the main lift?

that's what I tried on sat, hit three tops sets in deadlift for triples, some block deads for sets of 5 and then stones..I was pretty smoked by the end.

Arden will probably have a better answer for you, but I throw this stuff in at the end, usually in the form of a short metcon.

For example, yesterday I did heavy back squats, ring dips, rack pulls, and weighted pullups. Then I did a couple circuits of sandbag jerks, sledghammers, and tire flips. These sessions complement the strength training, give you time with the odd lifts, provide some metcon benefit, and are short enough that they don't kill you.

Dave Van Skike
03-27-2008, 07:34 AM
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Dave Van Skike
03-27-2008, 07:41 AM
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John Alston
03-27-2008, 07:59 AM
Nice goals. I think having squat and pull goals in addition to oly training is good. Really, even if your long term goal is higher oly total (like me), you're gonna need bigger squats to get there.

Arden Cogar Jr.
03-27-2008, 09:50 AM
I always separate the event training days and the gym work days. Better for the CNS. At least in my experience.

Hope that helps?

All the best,
Arden

Thank You Arden.

If I may, a question for you. How do you fold in odd object work? I'm fairly focused on getting my dead, squat and press up. I can really see where stones and tire flips etc woudl be a good complement, the question is where to put it? on an assitence day or hit it after the tops sets in the main lift?

that's what I tried on sat, hit three tops sets in deadlift for triples, some block deads for sets of 5 and then stones..I was pretty smoked by the end.

Arden Cogar Jr.
03-27-2008, 09:55 AM
When Phil was showing me how to lift stones, I initially couldn't even get a 200lber. He knew how much I could dead, pull, etc., so he basicly said I was going about it all wrong. He had me straddle the stone, hug the stone, round back it, and onto the knees. After some good coaching, I was getting the bigger stones with some effort. I didn't try the biggest one he had at the time (380). I don't think i ever will either.

Last year, when he was getting ready for the arnold, he made a 470lb pound stone. I had to try that one. Couldn't even get dust under it. Man, that was insane. I could roll it though. :o

all the best,
Arden



The stone I lifted is less than half my dl max, albeit my max dl is a moving target but is prob right below/above 500.

I'd like to devote some more time to it, I don't think the 300 pound stone is too far out of reach. The 365 looks heavy for even the 300 pound plus guys that I see lifiting it.

as for the odd object stuff, I'm kind of using it for an accesory lift. I no longer believe in "metcon". I do some mobility work, and I sometimes do conditioning work for recovery but the whole idea of additional thrashing about after 6 heavy sets of deadlift variants makes me ill.

Dave Van Skike
03-27-2008, 08:04 PM
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Dave Van Skike
03-29-2008, 12:47 PM
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Dave Van Skike
03-30-2008, 11:32 AM
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Dave Van Skike
04-09-2008, 09:20 PM
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