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View Full Version : Program advice please


Tim Jones
04-01-2014, 03:01 AM
I have twenty years of strength training behind me.
I am 39 years old. I have been learning the OL for the last two years though I did have six months out with bad elbow tendonitis.

Max Clean and Jerk 97.5kg
Max Snatch 65kg
Max Front Squat 110kg *3 ( pre OL this was 1rpm 140kg)
Max Back Squat 140kg * 3 ( PRE OL 1rm 195kg )
Push Press 90*3 (pre OL 1rm = 115kg )

Monday
Full snatch 40*2, 45*2, 50*2, 55*2, 60*2 *3 sets
Clean and Jerk 60*2, 70*1, 75*1, 80*1, 85*1, 90*1 * 4 sets
Back Squat 130 3*3
Push Press 80 3*3
Wide grip pull ups 2 sets to max, close grip pull ups 2 sets to max, dips 2 sets to max, some grip work.


WEDNESDAY
Snatch 40*2, 45*2, 50*2, 55*2, 60*2 *3 sets
3 Full squat cleans followed by 1 jerk 60*1, 70*1, 75*1, 80*1, 82.5*1*3
Last night I did three cleans followed by two jerks which fried me today.
Front Squat 100*3*3
Behind neck press 60*4*3
Wide grip pull ups 2 sets to max, close grip pull ups 2 sets to max, dips 2 sets to max, some grip work.

FRIDAY

Snatch 40*2, 45*2, 50*2, 55*1, 60*1, 62.5*1, 65*1 I try for max and try to get two or three singles at the max if I feel good.
Clean and J 60*2, 70*1, 80*1, 85*1, 90*1 then either five singles at 90 or a new max but five singles either way.
Max Back squat for 3 reps normally around 135 / 140 and I will do two /three heavy sets of this.
Max jerks for a single three four heavy sets.
Wide grip pull ups 2 sets to max, close grip pull ups 2 sets to max, dips 2 sets to max, some grip work.

Basically my suqats have stalled for around six months and have regressed since pre OL.
My Snatch and C&J has also regressed slightly over the last month.

Tim Jones
04-01-2014, 11:35 PM
I am 88 kg.
PS 58 views and no advice ?

Matthew Bosworth
04-02-2014, 01:36 PM
I can understand your frustration with no one responding or giving advice.

I see you have a pretty well planned out routine.
What is it that you want advice about specifically?

Do you want OLY routine advice?

Do you want suggestions on why your squat regressed?

Please clarify

Tim Jones
04-02-2014, 01:51 PM
Well
I would be interested to know why my squat has regressed so much.
How can I alter this routine to be more productive ?
I am not really making huge progress, is three times a week to often to be doing the snatch and clean and jerk ?
the workout takes the best part of two hours. It needs to be less!
Thanks in advance

Blake Barnes
04-03-2014, 11:40 AM
What is the difference between "snatch" and "full snatch"/"clean" and "full squat clean"?

Do you do the same reps/sets each week for each of those days? How long have you been doing this program?

So over the past 2 years (since you started olympic weightlifting training) your squats have been continuously regressing and then you said your squats have stalled out for the past 6 months. I'm having trouble understanding exactly what is going on. Was it a gradual decline in strength or was there a specific point in time where all of the sudden there was a significant decline in strength?

When you were out with elbow tendonitis, did you stop everything or did you do what you could that didn't cause a lot of pain?

Tim Jones
04-03-2014, 02:15 PM
My coach advised me to cut my weight to 60% for squats and jerks. I have never hit my old weights since. When I was injured I mainly did squats and dips /pull ups.
Cleans are all squat cleans.
Is it wise to do the full snatch and C&J three times a week ?
Thanks in advance.

Blake Barnes
04-04-2014, 11:56 AM
I don't know why the weights would be cut to 60% for those exercises but I'm not there to see what's going on. I can understand cutting the weights for a more technical exercise but not really for strength exercises.

If you had elbow tendonitis that was bad enough to keep you out for 6 months then I don't know how you would be able to do dips. Maybe that was the reason why you were injured for so long.

I would advise against doing strictly Snatch and C&J considering you are a beginner and suggest you have a more structured training plan with more variation for tech work and position reinforcement and also with a better periodization plan.

Tim Jones
04-04-2014, 12:30 PM
Thanks Blake,
That is why I posted ! Can you recommend one please ?

Blake Barnes
04-04-2014, 03:14 PM
Choosing the program that's right for you will depend on a few different factors (weaknesses, technical proficiency, how much volume you can take, time, frequency, etc).

There are tons of cycles for free that you can do on this website HERE (http://www.catalystathletics.com/workouts/cycles.php).

Your coach may be able to help you find one that's right for you.

Daniel Villarreal
04-04-2014, 10:58 PM
I'm no expert in routine programming (nor indeed lifting in general), and one of the reasons I registered just now was to ask some questions regarding programming and particularly de-loading.

Looking at th numbers you listed my intuitive first thoughts were:

1) The drop in squat weights may be partially attributable to a change in squatting style, if you previously haven't done oly style squats

2) If this is representative of your regular work on any given week, the intensity is quite high. You go to the 90-95% range in oly lifts 2-3 times a week for both lifts. That's a lot if you do it constantly. In addition, you squat heavy on all three days. I get a feeling you may be going too hard for your body. The volume x intensity may be just too high at the moment. (Keep in mind this is a guess)

3) How does this fit into your longer program cycles? How do you work up to this level of work and how do you deload after it? Part of what I've learned (which admittedly isn't much) over the years is that it's easy to get sort of stuck on the heavy weights at the end of a cycle and feel like you're doing just fine and do too much / too heavy work when deloading, or even skip the deloading altogether. This easily leads to several weeks with workloads similar to the one you described, which in turn usually leads to disaster i.e. overtraining. The symptoms seem to be there: decrease in performance despite good, hard work.

You mentioned you have a coach so they should have taken this into account, but frankly, you never know.

Like I said, these are just my first impressions based on what is admittedly very limited information regarding your training. Bear in mind I'm no expert either, but I have in the past seen similar things happen both to myself and to people around me. Unless there's something dramatic going on (illness, big drop in bodyweight, too much work stress or what have you) big falls (I'm assuming your squat 1RM has decreased some 35-45kg, which should just not happen) usually indicate something's wrong. Also, I've seen plenty of people switching from powerlifting to weightlifting experiencing problems with their programming and periodisation, which I had a gut instinct might be the case here.

Turned out a lot longer than I'd intended. Take out of it what you will, maybe it'll give you something to think about or maybe I'm missing the mark. :)

Tim Jones
04-05-2014, 12:37 PM
Thanks so much for your insights. You are on the nail I think. I did have a coach who wrote my initial program me and told me to drop the wights and work on speed. After lots of frustration I left him and have not been coached for a long time.

Blake Barnes
04-06-2014, 07:37 PM
I would suggest trying to find one, although it's kind of tough to find someone who knows what they're doing.

Best of luck.