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View Full Version : Second Pull not a jump?


Rob Chu
07-28-2014, 06:11 PM
Seems like this has been argued to death, but as a beginner, I have found that thinking of jumping into the bar has really helped me with my second pull. However, it appears that most coaches do not teach or view the second pull as a jump.

I had a problem with jumping forward on both my snatch and my cleans and after analyzing some video of myself, it seemed the problem was that I was cutting off my extension too early, which ended up making me kick my feet/legs forward. After trying a bunch of different things, I thought about jumping as hard as I can "into" the bar after getting my hips under it, and I stopped jumping forward and my lifts went up as well because i was extending up fully with much more force.

I guess I don't understand why thinking of jumping is wrong. I have heard its because you don't want to float away and the emphasis should be on getting under the bar quickly, but it seems to me that if you make sufficient contact with the bar at the proper angle and the weight is heavy enough, you won't float away, and instead, jumping violently into the bar will (1) transfer your energy into bar, propelling it up and (2) at the same time, allow you to quickly lift your feet in the same motion and propel you down off of the contact. It also seems like my bar path is better if I think of jumping up into the bar instead of extending and bumping into the bar with my hips and then moving down.

Also, if speed is a concern, it seems like milko tokola, who may not be elite but is probably the fastest lifter I have seen, actually jumps up with his feet in the air at lower weights as evidenced by this warmup vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btsJ5soET74

It seems to me that you may be able to move even faster if you think of jumping rather than extending up and then lifting your feet to move down, because with a jump, you are extending up and lifting your feet in one motion. with the key being making sufficient contact so you are pushed down

Daniel Villarreal
07-29-2014, 03:37 AM
This is something I’ve also given quite a bit of thought. I think it doesn’t really matter how you think about it if it works for you. The thing is, I see lots of lifters making a very distinct effort of getting (way too much) air under their feet, and often there’s a sort of combined effort of getting vertical movement as well as actually picking up the feet. It looks terribly inefficient and a lot of energy seems to be going into superfluous movements. As I understand it, any airtime should be minimal and just in order to enable dropping down under the bar as fast as possible and to reposition the feet, but I do see a lot of jumping you wouldn’t want to see. So if it does work for you, that’s fine, but there’s always the risk that it will actually be a bit of a jump and you’ll be losing upward momentum on the bar. I think that’s why the visual cue of a jumping motion is discouraged.

Blake Barnes
07-29-2014, 02:19 PM
Some philosophies emphasize "jumping", some emphasize getting under as fast as possible, and some emphasize both. You want to get the feeling of jumping as in pushing against the platform because this causes the bar to elevate. You DO NOT want to "jump" to get yourself high in the air like you would do in basketball, volleyball, etc.

There is no preference on how much air should or should not be under your feet when shifting them to the squat position. This will differ among different lifters. Ideally, you want to push against the floor as much as possible before you move them. You only need to move them enough to put them in the appropriate position to receive the bar. Notice in Milko's video that he pushes against the platform until he reaches full extension and then moves his feet as he transitions under the bar.

(Rob) I feel like you're contradicting yourself when you say you want to "jump" instead of "extend" because technically you are extending when you jump. I don't understand what you mean when you say "jump into the bar after getting my hips under it." If you want some technique advice feel free to embed a video but I think reading Greg's book (http://www.catalystathletics.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=155&zenid=k9rm05id9nph1l752gaau7oju2) will greatly benefit you as far as understanding the principles of the lifts.

Daniel Villarreal
07-29-2014, 08:44 PM
Just wanted to add/clarify that the unwanted jumping I was talking about was with respect to inexperienced lifters. Naturally with more experienced lifters it's a question of preference and personal style and technique variation. With beginners, often the jump seems to become a goal itself, which I've seen lead to very strange and unwanted results as regards the overall timing of the lift. By far the oddest I've seen involved initiating the second pull only once the jump had actually landed.

Rob Chu
07-31-2014, 04:07 PM
Thanks for the responses.

Blake, in regards to extending v. jumping, maybe its just me, but when I do a snatch or clean pull and go up on my toes and lift my elbows, I view that as an extension, which feels much different to me from when I think of "jump".

Is the pull supposed to be the same feeling as a full lift other than dropping down? I do agree that if you jump, you automatically do fully extend, but for me, if I think of doing a pull to full extension and then dropping under to "catch" if feels way slower and less explosive than if I think of simply "jumping" into the bar.

I actually do have Greg's book and dvd and he says the motion is similar to a jump with a few exceptions, but I was having difficulties with the concept of moving up and then moving down in two motions, whereas if I think about jumping, to me its one motion.

Blake Barnes
08-03-2014, 02:31 PM
Well the goal is to Snatch and Clean & Jerk as much weight as possible. So if "jumping into the bar" helps you do that then by all means, think that.

I believe it's important to any beginner that they need to be breaking down the movement to get a good feel for all the different components of the lift. For example, when you're going through the different exercises in the book's progression. Then when you go to put it all together it may feel slow like you're piecing together the whole thing but it will soon smooth itself out and you will be able to progress without teaching yourself bad habits.