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Derek Simonds
04-17-2007, 02:48 PM
chondroitin was no more effective than use of placebo at treating osteoarthritis

Here is the full article.

http://foodconsumer.org/7777/8888/G_eneral_H_ealth_34/041710292007_Chondroitin_may_not_work_for_osteoart hritis.shtml

I have been using Glucosamine and Chondroitin for 5 years and have cycled on and off a couple of times. I have always believed that as a supplement they were amongst the best. The most dramatic change I have experienced is when I started taking large quantities of fish oil. My joints feel the best they ever have, other than grappling injuries.

Yael Grauer
04-17-2007, 05:37 PM
This was a study just on chondroitin, not the glucosamine/chondroitin combo. I'd be interested in reading how much they used. The studies that "disproved" the efficacy of echinachea used a tiny amount in the wrong form. Of course it didn't work.

Elliot Royce
04-18-2007, 09:36 AM
My personal experience was that glucosamine/chondroitin was very effective at reducing the pain of severe hip arthritis. My arthritis did not get worse during the 3 years I was on it.

Steve Shafley
04-18-2007, 10:55 AM
This all goes back to a few different things:

1. Big Pharma doesn't like the availability and usefulness of many of the "joint" supplements, because many of them DO work, and this eats into their sales. There will be more studies coming out saying similar things. Follow the money trail and see where it leads.

2. Scientific study design is really ridiculous. Lately I've been reading this guy's blog (http://evidencebasedfitness.blogspot.com/) and it's been extremely interesting to watch him shred study after study for incredibly poor design, poor use of statistics, and just overall goofiness.

Don't think, for one minute, that many (even most) scientists are well versed in the design of studies, or even in the scientific method.

3. Multiple joint supplements seem to be synergistic. For example, one brand of glucosamine didn't do anything for my knee aches at all, but when I switched to a glucosamine, chondroiten and MSM blend from the same company, my knees got immediately happier.

Mike ODonnell
04-18-2007, 11:14 AM
"The primary study cost just over $12.5 million."

are you f'n kidding me??

How about the $1 answer you can get from me....if it relieves your pain and makes your daily life improve without giving any negative side effects...keep taking it.

Yael Grauer
04-18-2007, 11:33 AM
Yeah, I was trying to say what Shaf said, but he said it better. Both about the synergism of different herbs/supplements and also about scientific studies. Paul Bergner (who is a vitalist and runs an herb school) has a critical thinking question format that he has his students use where they find three MEDLINE articles and determine whether the studies are based on humans, account for all confounding factors, use appropriate form, dose and duration of intervention, measure real results instead of indicators, are interpreted properly, fit in context of the larger body of research, do not have deliberate bias, have significant results, which show what the title and abstract claim they do, etc. etc. etc. More often than not the studies don't pass.

Dave Van Skike
04-18-2007, 11:37 AM
I know people who give it to their horses and show dogs, no placebo effect and it visibly improved those animal's quality of life.

My surgeon recommends it to all his aptients with mild to moderate arthiritis. Don't know about folks with severe cases but I delayed knee surgeries for two years using a combo of glucosamine and chondroitin.

John Alston
04-18-2007, 11:50 AM
chondroitin was no more effective than use of placebo

Beware the Placebo Syndrome (http://www.duke.edu/~tmc/motherpage/albums_parliament/alb-funken.html).