View Full Version : Am I full of shit?

kevin mckay
05-01-2007, 12:48 PM
In the spirit of peer review please let me know if anybody finds this inaccurate. My main goal in my site is to try and give honest simple information so please let me know if this looks wrong or over reaching. Robb and Greg just tell me to STFU if this beyond the scope of this board.



Robb Wolf
05-01-2007, 01:17 PM
You may indeed be full of shit but your site kicks ass! Keep it up!

Garrett Smith
05-01-2007, 01:42 PM
Other than some typographical errors, it looks pretty good!

Greg Everett
05-01-2007, 01:43 PM
word up.

my only caution would be likening any response to that of steroids. those in the know may not be concerned, but a lot of women reading that will probably be off-put by visions of bodybuilders.

kevin mckay
05-01-2007, 04:10 PM
Thanks for all the positive feedback, when I am Opera :p they will not be able to stop me from talking about the PM.


Mike ODonnell
05-01-2007, 05:41 PM
Robb vs Kevin....first to make it big...who will it be.....

Robert Allison
05-01-2007, 06:05 PM
... when I am Opera :p they will not be able to stop me from talking about the PM. Cheers

Would that be


Sorry--couldn't resist that one ;)

Nice work on the site... keep it up!

Robb Wolf
05-01-2007, 06:05 PM
Robb vs Kevin....first to make it big...who will it be.....

If you are talking a bowel movement...I just won.

Steve Shafley
05-01-2007, 06:57 PM

I've got to say that I still think the neuroendocrine thing is a stretch, but it's not bad at all. I like the workouts, and will probably start using some as metcon in the near future.

kevin mckay
05-01-2007, 07:22 PM

I've got to say that I still think the neuroendocrine thing is a stretch, but it's not bad at all. I like the workouts, and will probably start using some as metcon in the near future.

Really? I have been going back and fourth on this and really do not want to misrepresent.

Here is the stuff from Kraemer

"Protocols high in volume, moderate to high in intensity, using short rest intervals and stressing a large muscle mass, tend to produce the greatest acute hormonal elevations"

Hormonal Responses and Adaptations to Resistance Exercise and Training.

Review Article
Sports Medicine. 35(4):339-361, 2005.
Kraemer, William J 1 2; Ratamess, Nicholas A 3

Resistance exercise has been shown to elicit a significant acute hormonal response. It appears that this acute response is more critical to tissue growth and remodelling than chronic changes in resting hormonal concentrations, as many studies have not shown a significant change during resistance training despite increases in muscle strength and hypertrophy. Anabolic hormones such as testosterone and the superfamily of growth hormones (GH) have been shown to be elevated during 15-30 minutes of post-resistance exercise providing an adequate stimulus is present. Protocols high in volume, moderate to high in intensity, using short rest intervals and stressing a large muscle mass, tend to produce the greatest acute hormonal elevations (e.g. testosterone, GH and the catabolic hormone cortisol) compared with low-volume, high-intensity protocols using long rest intervals. Other anabolic hormones such as insulin and insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) are critical to skeletal muscle growth. Insulin is regulated by blood glucose and amino acid levels. However, circulating IGF-1 elevations have been reported following resistance exercise presumably in response to GH-stimulated hepatic secretion. Recent evidence indicates that muscle isoforms of IGF-1 may play a substantial role in tissue remodelling via up-regulation by mechanical signalling (i.e. increased gene expression resulting from stretch and tension to the muscle cytoskeleton leading to greater protein synthesis rates). Acute elevations in catecholamines are critical to optimal force production and energy liberation during resistance exercise. More recent research has shown the importance of acute hormonal elevations and mechanical stimuli for subsequent up- and down-regulation of cytoplasmic steroid receptors needed to mediate the hormonal effects. Other factors such as nutrition, overtraining, detraining and circadian patterns of hormone secretion are critical to examining the hormonal responses and adaptations to resistance training.

Steve Shafley
05-01-2007, 07:23 PM
Yeah I've seen it and I'm skeptical.

Not that hormonal elevation occurs, but rather that actually does anything.

Greg Everett
05-01-2007, 07:34 PM
yes... maybe very low doses of fairly weak steroids... but youll never look like ronnie coleman no matter how high your training AKP is.

kevin mckay
05-01-2007, 07:46 PM
Ok, sounds like I should consider updating the description, and suggestions?

Steve Shafley
05-01-2007, 08:04 PM
In the long term, I think it's the mechanical stimulus, and maybe the effect of glycogen depletion, rather than minute fluctuations in the anabolic hormonal levels.

It's your call, this is just a gut feeling on my part, and I can't really back it up with anything.

kevin mckay
05-01-2007, 08:10 PM
I will wait for more input and look around some more, I appreciate your honesty. My highest priority is giving an honest representation of what people can expect from the workout. I just hope the research is not inheriting baggage from glassman.

Allen Yeh
05-02-2007, 04:35 AM

My 2 cents:

Perhaps explain why you want the EPOC as opposed to doing a X minute slow steady run, Alwyn Cosgrove on his blog recently had some good stuff there.

What do you mean by "genetically correct"?

I personally don't like "sports like and addictive" sounds off to me, I think competetive and addictive.

Steve Shafley
05-02-2007, 04:50 AM
Even with EPOC it's been suggested that it's the glycogen depletion present during "that" type of work increasing the enzymes for fat breakdown, rather than any kind of metabolic disturbance.

It's hell trying to figure out which shape goes in which hole, when NONE of them match.

Thus, the "Black Box" concept and it's input/output usefulness.

Pierre Auge
05-02-2007, 07:31 AM
I don't think there is anything inherently wrong in the theory of neuro-endocrine response its simply that it should not be overstated as Greg said by comparing it to synthetic anobolic steroid use...

kevin mckay
05-02-2007, 07:51 AM
Thanks for all the great feedback I have made some adjustments


Let me know if anything else looks funny


Ron Nelson
05-02-2007, 08:59 AM
First off, congratulations on the singing career. I could never do opera.

Next, I like the way you've leveled the workouts. We can always say things are "universally scalable," but never know what that looks like.

As for the neuroendocrine response, I have no clue. I did CF workouts religiously for two years and only saw a loss of some fat and some strength gains. No "steroid-like" responses. I could be different, I guess, but I would have to agree with Shaf in his skepticism.

Finally, I've been using your Level 7 workout for my metcon. I sub squats with overhead squats using the bar. The first time I did that it hit all major areas with a whallop. Good stuff.

Danny John
05-02-2007, 09:34 AM
I really like your site...very clean and the plan is great. I would add some little things to the daily workouts, maybe some kind of extra template of some general things, too. Josh Hillis has his athletes do a lot of planks and bridges and that might be a direction, or, simply have your people add a set of skills. One thing I like about Pavel is how he insists on learning the skill of something...like simple deadlifts...over time. "Mastering the swing" and "taming the arc" and that kind of stuff is great for people to be exposed to...

kevin mckay
05-02-2007, 10:07 AM
Thanks for all the great feedback.

Dan, I really like the plank and bridge idea since those are so simple it fits well. The skills idea is awesome! Do you think skills stuff would be more appropriate before workouts or on off days?

This has been really great thanks!

Danny John
05-02-2007, 10:34 AM
I guess you should have a big chart of "skills" to master. I have an article on t-nation I think that has a three week list, but you could go by week. Three days of Bench Press learning...three days of Inclines...whatever.

Before the serious stuff, of course. So you could have a Day One:
and others

Day Two:
Horse Kicks
Blah blah blahs
and others

Day Three
More other stuff

Those would "never" change. Then, the skill work.

Then, do your workout as listed on your site.

You would really never repeat a workout, But you would have:

Warmup A, B, C
Skills progression
Level 1-100 workout
Appropriate finish

That is a ton of flexibility without any thinking.

kevin mckay
05-02-2007, 01:17 PM
Thats great stuff, I will try to figure out a way to integrate that into the site while preserving the simplicity.


Ron Nelson
05-02-2007, 02:19 PM
If you adapt Dan's ideas into a "Level 1,2,3, etc" template, I'll give it a shot.
With my workout ADD (just like Alan), I'm always looking for something different and looking to work on weak areas in new ways and. . .

Dave Van Skike
05-02-2007, 03:27 PM
One thing that would benefit your readers is summing up what Dan just wrote above. The key balance between working weaknesses and trying new things versus the benefit of focusing on mastery of a few key moves.

Doing a couple of things really well allows people to explore their limits more quickly than doing 10 things really crappy. I know this is at odds with a lot of what we think of as "fun". But something that is really rewarding is being good at something. Not sucking is pretty cool.

I really think this is the key Pavel contribution....learn a set of skills..then master them ...then become a virtuoso, then move on. I think Glassman had an article like that at one point.

This is what I love about the idea of the Olympic lifts, or just C&J and Snatch for reps with KB's or the basic big push/big pull/squat model. Don't get me wrong, a good workout is fun but mastering a skill is transcendent.

Robb Wolf
05-02-2007, 04:06 PM
Great point. Reminds me of the books FLOW and Finding FLow. Finding joy in the mundane by going deep and being present.

kevin mckay
05-02-2007, 04:16 PM
I am thinking I need a second site

site 1
simplefit = ultra simple straight forward for people who are new
I get this feed back from my users again and again they love the simplicity. Some of the folks are pretty out of shape and they feel safe and really get a sense of progression from the simplicity. When users are ready to move on I have site 2.

Site 2
Humanhack.com more variation more complexity like Dan suggested. I am also trying to finish up my random workout generator it is a bitch but when it is done will kick ass!

I hate to screw with simplefit to much because when I suggested more variety people were upset.

Plus I have a new web framework that looks really cool and I already own the humanhack domain name


Allen Yeh
05-03-2007, 02:54 AM
With my workout ADD (just like Alan). . .

Ahem....and who is this A-L-A-N guy?