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Chris Lowndes
05-08-2007, 07:20 AM
Hello,

A couple of questions:

1. What are the perceived benefits to IF
2. Is there a basic protocol to follow
3. What are the reasons persons have undertook IF?


Regards

Chris

PS if anyone can point me in the direction of a thread which covers IF then that would be helpful :-)

Robert Allison
05-08-2007, 07:37 AM
Hi Chris,

I'm not sure there is just one thread that covers IF, but if you poke around the Intermittent Fasting sub-forum, you will find a lot of material. Also, a number of back issues of the PM have articles on IF.

Dr. Michael Eades had a great blog post of IF a while back:

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=278

Free download on IF at: http://www.fast-5.com/

And Art Devany's site and the Nutrition forum over at CrossFit also have some good info.

Happy Hunting!

Mike ODonnell
05-08-2007, 08:50 AM
there should be a whole section dedicated to IF threads on the PM forum....that and go back through some old PM journals.....lots of great info....

Benefits: not worrying about food all day, less oxidative damage, slow down ageing, keep muscle, burn fat, increased insulin sensitivity, reduced risk of most all major diseases....if not all.....

Protocol...dont eat...drink water/tea/coffee only....condense calories to a shorter window....it's not calorie restriction as you are still getting enough calories in....either do a short eating window every day or eat every other day (2x food on days eating)....benefits is you may need less calories to maintain muscle and burn fat...

Reasons...sick of living life around food all day...just never seemed natural...want to improve health and fitness...feel better....and not be a slave to the fork....works well.....

Ron Nelson
05-08-2007, 11:29 AM
Agree.

I picked the "Fast-5" program because it was, by far, the easiest to follow.
Wake up, don't eat until 5-ish, eat, stop by 10. Don't worry about what you consume because in the long run it will all balance out.
Also, if you "fall off the wagon" one day, you can get back on it the next with no damage done. As the Fast-5 e-book says, "The mountain will be waiting for you the next day."

I even break my fast early on the weekends due to relentless pressure from my wife and kids to eat lunch if we are out. My wife tells everyone that I'm observing Ramadan every day. She also complains about the fact that there's a bunch of food in the house I haven't eaten. I tell her, "Just give me time."

Chris Lowndes
05-09-2007, 12:18 AM
Thnaks for the advice.

How often do you IF [every couple of weeks for a couple of days?]

regards

chris

Scott Kustes
05-09-2007, 07:15 AM
Mine is more of an IIF (Intermittent Intermittent Fasting). My fasts are of varying lengths, 15-26 hours and I don't fast everyday, but I do most days. I probably eat breakfast once, maybe twice a week at most, those days obviously being a non-fast day.

Some people do a 15-hour daily fast. Some do 24-on, 24-off. Find what works for you.

Bo Bolund
06-13-2007, 05:03 AM
There are several schedules for IF:

Eades 24/24 (Fast/Eat)
Masochist 36/12
Eades-lite 20/28
Warrior 20/4

My schedule is warrior style 22-23/1-2

The benefits of IF:
Lower insulin release, higher glucagon release.
Neuroprotective effects
Overall increased life expectancy and health

Robb Wolf
06-13-2007, 06:23 AM
Bo!
Glad we finally got you signed up! Sorry it took so long.

Bo Bolund
06-13-2007, 06:50 AM
Bo!
Glad we finally got you signed up! Sorry it took so long.

Better late than never, although I would have preferred the name dessbee smith ;)

Edward Friedman
06-13-2007, 08:50 AM
I agree with the various reasons posted. Here is another. IF is great for people that enjoy eating.

I enjoy and appreciate food much more now that I don't eat at all for most of the day, then I did when I grazed or when I ate "several small meals".

Huh ?

Here's what I mean.

I do Fast-5 or IF 19/5. When my "window" opens, I am really appreciative for the food I am about to enjoy. There is a powerful demarcation / delineation between the eating and non-eating times/cycles of the day. I love this sub-rhythm of the larger life-rhythms.

As with any dichotomy/dualistic/yin-yang view, anything can be best appreciated seen through the lens of it's relative opposite. IME, satiety is realized more fully when hunger is realized more fully. When the window is about to open, I usually take a few moments to very solemnly reflect upon the meaning of what is about to happen and what I am about to do.

I say a prayer of Gratitude. (To be "PC" about it, others, not religiously inclined, may wish to reflect upon the (secular) "miracle" of what is before them; eg; the "wonder" of the food chain, the delivery system that got the food where it is, the chain of people whose labor brought the food to where it is, the amazing biology that allows the food to become energy and to become us, etc...Yes, grazers and frequent-meal-eaters can manifest similar perspectives. IMHO and IME, IF facilitates same much more powerfully. )

Then, when it is time to eat...play ball ! Eat with mucho gusto ! Relish in the pleasure of eating as large a meal as you like. Seconds ? No problem. Thirds ? Sure. "Does anyone else want some of this delicioius____________ ?...Otherwise, I am going to finish it. " Being liberated from doubt about portion size, meal frequency, it's like arriving at the afterlife destination in the movie "Defending Your Life". Then, once "adjusted" to IF, waking up in the morning and feeling that good energy lightness, no need to eat until much later, I don't have to clutter my mind with those concerns. Then weighing myself after last night's feast and being O.K. with the reading. It's all good !

All the best,

Eddie

Bo Bolund
06-14-2007, 02:59 AM
Great post Eddie!

IF really makes you appreciate food so much more and the rewards of IF provides a spiritual gratitidue.

Edward Friedman
06-14-2007, 08:48 AM
Thank you Bo. Funny, I was thinking about the topic some more and I thought that as an alternative to writing that IF is great for people who enjoy eating, one might say that IF is great for people who enjoy "gluttony within parameters".;) Sort of "gluttony-lite". Eat all you want, for awhile, no harmful side effects, in fact, it's good for you. Wow !

All the best,

Eddie

Mike ODonnell
06-14-2007, 09:31 AM
Also nothing like being asked to leave an all you can eat buffet....apparently it's not all "I" can eat....finding a buffet with a make your own plate/hibachi cook is the best discovery I have ever made.....I eat $50 worth of meat and give them $7.....how this place will stay open is beyond me....

Scott Kustes
06-14-2007, 09:53 AM
I have a Chinese buffet nearby with a hibachi. I tear a hole in that when I go in. But how they stay in business is that few people eat like us MOD. Most people are loading up on the cheap egg rolls (ok, so I have 1 or 2 on the rare occasions I go there), the chicken and pork in sugary sauce, and the desserts rather than the meat, onions, bean sprouts, and a touch of soy sauce.

Allen Yeh
06-14-2007, 09:55 AM
I have a Chinese buffet nearby with a hibachi. I tear a hole in that when I go in. But how they stay in business is that few people eat like us MOD. Most people are loading up on the cheap egg rolls (ok, so I have 1 or 2 on the rare occasions I go there), the chicken and pork in sugary sauce, and the desserts rather than the meat, onions, bean sprouts, and a touch of soy sauce.

Exactly!

Garrett Smith
06-14-2007, 10:42 AM
Brazilian steakhouses (also All-you-can-eat) and AYCE sushi places start to quiver when I'm approaching their doors on Friday afternoon to break the fast...

The sushi places typically bring out a big "boat" just for me...I've totaled my intake to be around $80 before...

Ron Nelson
06-14-2007, 11:14 AM
Also nothing like being asked to leave an all you can eat buffet....apparently it's not all "I" can eat....finding a buffet with a make your own plate/hibachi cook is the best discovery I have ever made.....I eat $50 worth of meat and give them $7.....how this place will stay open is beyond me....

You mean Mongolian BBQ? I always have a problem limiting myself to one "meat" and one sauce.

Edward Friedman
06-14-2007, 02:34 PM
Here is an odd, IMO, aspect of the "window" (ie; feast, gorge, whatever.*) I think some or many people, I confess to being one of them, can feel embarrassed to be seen by others eating a huge volume of food. I think there is often a direct correlation between those feelings of embarrassment and a person's BF%. That is, many overly fat folks can feel embarrassed eating the large amounts they (obviously,) do, in public. This can lead to solitary binge eating.

( BTW, I'm not saying any of the above behaviors are healthy or well, just that they are.)

Well, (somewhat due to IF,) now I am trim. (5'11", 33' inch waist.) So instead of the above, I actually get some weird cheap thrill when folks see me get up for several helpings, or, while they are finishing desert, I'm still mid-main course asking for extra servings, or if there is any more left. "Where do you put it all ?!" they ask rhetorically. Or I just get the look that says the same thing. I don't know why, but I like that. Like I figured out something they wish they knew, as they loosen their belt to give their "dunlap" more room.

*One more BTW. Not every night is a gorge. To my pleasant surprise, that seems to level out. But on the nights when the big hunger is there, it's nice to know I can eat the entire mastadon, without fear that I won't be able to join the rest of the tribe on tomorrow's hunting and gathering.

Troy Archie
06-14-2007, 08:25 PM
Ha, this weekend I went to a wedding and went for quad servings of spinach and broccoli salad piled high with tones of turkey to go with it. I was still pounding that down while they were cutting the cake. The looks of wonder I got as they stuffed their faces full of cake...

Garrett Smith
06-15-2007, 05:54 AM
I have become very comfortable at "served" dinners asking for a second plate after my first one is done--they always have them in the back!

One does have to make sure they ask before dessert is served though...

Scott Kustes
06-15-2007, 06:17 AM
My wife gives me that look. But she also understands that it's pretty well impossible to pack on any fat when the tons of food one is eating is vegetables.

William Hunter
06-15-2007, 08:57 AM
Great posts Edward, you've put into words what I've been thinking. I'm currently going strong in IF after several in and outs over the past 1-2 years. Part of my problem was trying to cram as much food as possible into my gut whether I felt like it or not. I'm trying to gauge myself a little better now, and there are days where I don't eat until 6pm, then I just eat a normal meal and possibly a snack a few hours later. It ends up being a very low calorie day. I can keep that up for a day or two, then the real feast mode takes over and I go friggin nuts at the dinner table. I think a lot of us trying this have some deeply rooted fears about not taking in enough calories each and every day. My silly brain seems to get in the way of a perfectly natural process until I muzzle it.

I've yet to try EOD but there was a time when I conducted a weekly 36 hr fast, usually on Sunday. I found that doing that on a limited basis made those days very difficult, with me doing a lot of lying around, being generally useless. Fine if you're single, not so much with a wifey and 3 little ones.

Edward Friedman
06-15-2007, 11:02 AM
William,

Thank you for your kind words. They mean a lot to me. In RL, there is no one around me that is "in to" what I am. ( WOE, KB exercise, etc.) The "validation" is comforting, albeit "virtual". ( BTW, I appreciate the "wifey & 3 kids" comment, as I have "wifey & 2 kids" )

Your post brought other IF thoughts to mind. To the extent that current IF thinking arose from a paleo view of food scarcity, the eating patterns you outlined and our concerns about, "did I really eat enough to get to my next window" have interesting implications.

The fact that we can generally not eat for a long time, then eat, then find we are satisfied with less than we thought it would take to satisfy, than need to eat much more some days, shows ( me anyway,) that we have much greater than generally realized stress hardiness and that modern day overeating is really prevalent (even among those not over-fat.)

There is so much "its time to eat" or "this is how much you need to eat" cultural programming, being liberated/detached from that through IF is another benefit.

Mike ODonnell
06-15-2007, 01:22 PM
I have a Chinese buffet nearby with a hibachi. I tear a hole in that when I go in. But how they stay in business is that few people eat like us MOD. Most people are loading up on the cheap egg rolls (ok, so I have 1 or 2 on the rare occasions I go there), the chicken and pork in sugary sauce, and the desserts rather than the meat, onions, bean sprouts, and a touch of soy sauce.

http:////www.lifeperform.com/meat.jpg

Ahhhh....the 2nd of 3 plates today....Mmmmmmm.....

Sam Cannons
06-18-2007, 03:56 PM
Got a question regarding the Fast-5 and workout times, if my average work out time is in the arvos as well as MA training will this affect what time i choose my window ? The best time really for me would be 1600-2100 but this is also during my wo time.

Thank you

Sam In Aus

Al Coleman
06-19-2007, 02:35 PM
I have a similar question. How many of you work out during the fast? Have you noticed any strength loss? I've been doing 24on 24 off for about a week now. On my fast day I feel flat as hell and lose all my vascularity. I tried working out on a fast day and felt wipped within minutes. Has anyone else had a similar experience?

Garrett Smith
06-19-2007, 04:58 PM
I do all of my strength workouts while fasting and have been getting significant PRs (at this BW), I haven't done any major metcons (like my hilly fixie out & back ride that sandwiches a hilly run & walk) while fasting.

Are you doing a Paleo IF? Are you relatively fat-adapted?

Sam Cannons
06-19-2007, 06:33 PM
With the fast Garrett it will be paleo food. My problem is that i work earlier and finish around 3pm and workout around 4-5, i dont think i can last till after 5 fasting and i also train ma a couple of times a week from about 6.30-8.30.

I will start by trying an eating window from 12-5pm today and see how it goes.

Thanks

Sam In Aus

Al Coleman
06-19-2007, 08:38 PM
I'm on more of a zone type diet although I'm not overly strict with it. Will fasting day workouts improve once one is fat adapted?

William Hunter
06-20-2007, 05:07 AM
Al, did you jump right in to 24 hr on/24 hr off IF? That sounds pretty hardcore to me. If you did, you might try compressing your eating window slowly over a few weeks. "Normal people" eat anywhere from 12 to 16 hours per day (even diehard Zoners). Perhaps you could try an 8 hr window, then 6 or 5 for a while. It's taken my body a while to get used to this but I'm pretty comfortable with a 4-5 hour window. However, if I failed to eat enough over a 2-3 day period I get a little weak so the next day I may eat over an 8 hr period. I think I'm still a ways off from EOD eating. I'm coming off a planned bulk where I went from 165 to 192 (5'11") and have never found dropping BF easier than this. Down to 178 as of this morning and fairly lean. When all is said and done, I'll try to stay at 175 (8-10%BF) for the summer, which may prove difficult if I don't really chow down during my window. If your goals include serious strength and bodyweight gain IF may be a difficult protocol. YMMV.