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View Full Version : Skinny guy needs introductory help in building mass..


Sam Fold
05-09-2007, 03:31 PM
Hi there,

I'm new here and i've heard you guys are the diet experts.. I've always had a big problem gaining weight.

I've found that by weight lifting I can get stronger but I never seem to really to look/get bigger.

Ive recently started doing the simple fit (http://www.simplefit.org/workout.html) exercises instead of normal weightlifting and eventually want to start on crossfit.

I've started today on a paleo based diet, no dairy/starch based/wheat etc etc. But im not sure if this diet is the best for my particular build.

I was also told that many repititions of an exercise didnt build muscle (only endurance) (example: many pressups/pullups). So i'm just wondering how possible it is to gain mass with simplefit/crossfit..

Thanks

Mike ODonnell
05-09-2007, 05:00 PM
Eat....less cardio....more reps 5-10....lift heavy compounds (squat, DL, Bench, Push Press)....get plenty of protein....eat PWO meals....I don't think you will get serious size without some serious stimulation for muscle building hormones from doing the "Big" 3....Squat, DL, Bench.....pushups will not get you there. Research the Mass gain forum....lots of good info there....but really comes down to I find you have to lift heavy, workout LESS (2x a week I would say to start) and eat more....most people are not taking in the calories for working out 4-5x a week and still gain mass....unless you are taking in 4000cal....but you would be alot heavier if you were....

Simple Fit is a great site but I think it is more geared towards fat loss for larger less fit people....I'll have to put together a simple mass site....it involves a fork and heavy weights....

Chris Forbis
05-09-2007, 05:10 PM
From a fellow skinny guy...

I was 6'4" 172 when I started, now I'm up to 192 (10 weeks total or so).

1. Eat a ton. 4000-5000 calories a day. Coconut milk + whey is a good calorie bomb. Grassfed ground beef (75% lean is what I use) has quite a few calories. Eat a handful of nuts with every meal. Don't be afraid of gaining some bad weight.

2. Heavy, compound lifts 2-3 times a week.

3. Get as much sleep as possible.

4. Avoid too much additional activity.

Sam Fold
05-09-2007, 05:25 PM
Thanks for the advice guys,

Chris, was the weight you gained muscle? Did you put on much fat?

I'm just worried about suddenly increasing my cals will put a load of fat on too. Which I definitely do not want.

Dave Van Skike
05-09-2007, 07:18 PM
You are going to have to let that go. Muscle gain without a little fat gain is really tough. To the plus side, it doesn't seem like you'll have trouble getting rid of the fat after. Just eat, lift rest repeat.

Look over at Power and Bulk, review some programs that are geared to mass gain like Charles Staley's work. If you are looking for something simple check out power to the people, "Bear" program. or google Delorme hypertrophy.

All of these will seem a little cheezy but they do work..if you follow MOD's advice...... Eat.

chris hill
05-10-2007, 12:49 AM
i read another (uk based) forum, which although is not so techincally advanced as PM its regulars frequently offer advice in getting bigger in 3 simple steps. Although its a massive simplification it does sum up what you need to do.

1. get your eat on
2. lift some heavy weights
3. man the fu€k up

Chris Forbis
05-10-2007, 02:32 AM
There's been fat gain. Fat is easy to lose for skinny buggers like us though.

Allen Yeh
05-10-2007, 04:11 AM
There's been fat gain. Fat is easy to lose for skinny buggers like us though.

Chris F - "There's been fat gain. I think I'm up to (whopping) 10-11% bodyfat now......."

Darn you skinny buggers!

Mike ODonnell
05-10-2007, 05:19 AM
I forgot where I read it....but it said: "If you say you are a hard gainer....you are not eating anywhere enough calories....period..."

There are no excuses....only solutions....eat more, expend less energy in non heavy lifting exercises (aka cardio, metcon, etc...)..your body will be forced to store the excess calories....aka you gain weight....it's a simple energy in/energy out formula that can not be broken....even if you think you are a hard gainer....you just need to up your energy in and decrease your energy out.....don't expect to get huge and be able to have great endurance running 6x a week....unless you plan on eating 6000 calories a day...it just doesnt work that way.....get the muscle now....then learn how to hold on to it later while you get your endurance back....

Sam Fold
05-10-2007, 06:01 AM
To be honest Mike, thats exactly what i've always thought. I just assumed my metabolism was screwing me.

Im going to focus on weight gain now and when/if I hit 190-200, im going to focus on just retaining that weight and cutting the fat a bit.

Mike ODonnell
05-10-2007, 10:49 AM
Might want to try also 3 BIG meals a day vs the whole every 3 hours. Some people are able to slow down their metabolism by forcing huge calories only 3x a day....vs the other way where you metabolism speeds up with more frequent meals. Could also try the whole 15-19hr IF thing...but that would require a TON of food at a sitting.....no matter what...it's all about the calories....you need to get more from food...and take away calorie expenditure from too much exercise.....probably not the healthies of things long term but for short term mass gain it is quite effective. It's a hell of alot easier to maintain muscle and lose some fat than trying to get the muscle in the first place.....

Elliot Royce
05-10-2007, 03:36 PM
A quick post to just say that eating more is the key and you have to disregard your expanding waist line. I've had to loosen my belt by one notch but in the meantime my custom shirts don't fit anymore and my butt is pushing out my trousers from all the squats. You've got to choose whether you want muscle or just look like a model. If the latter, forget all the advice above.

kevin mckay
05-10-2007, 08:15 PM
"Simple Fit is a great site but I think it is more geared towards fat loss for larger less fit people"

Obviously the site in not geared for mass gain but the level 8 workouts would challenge many athletes. It would be silly to say they will make you huge or even big but they will be of benefit to many "fit" individuals IMHO.

Charles Johnson
05-11-2007, 01:18 AM
Milk, drink it, lots of it!!! with every meal.

Steve Shafley
05-11-2007, 05:33 AM
I wrote this somewhere else.

Here's the context.

We were discussing this blog entry by Tim Ferriss on Lyle McDonald's Bodyrecomposition forum

http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2007/04/29/from-geek-to-freak-how-i-gained-34-lbs-of-muscle-in-4-weeks/

If you don't want to read the blog entry, basically it's Tim Ferriss talking about how he gained 34 pounds of muscle in 4 weeks with only 4 hours worth of training, by attempting to duplicate the (in)famous "Colorado Experiment" that Art Jones, of Nautilus, and Casey Viator performed. I don't think I have to point out here that gaining 1.2 pounds of lean body mass PER DAY is extremely unlikely unless there are both unusual conditions at the start, and assistance from jacking up assorted hormonal levels.

I am commenting about hardgainers and skinny folks in general.

The funny thing is that a middle of the road volume program is, in general, much better for the genuine hardgainer than the low volume HIT workouts.

Taking things to failure, much less every damn set to failure, is a recipe for disaster for the genuine hardgainer.

Most of them need to follow an exercise prescription of moderate volume, moderate load, leave a rep or two in the tank, compound movements coupled with adequate nutrition, for a long time...months, maybe years, to get to a nice level of muscular size.

Why can I say this? Because, in the beginning, the Power and Bulk community was a haven for skinny, skinny-fat, and scared Hardgainer Roundtable refugees. The standard advice given above has helped practically EVERY one of them make gains that the so called Hardgainer and HIT routines couldn't.

HIT style programs are tailor made for those using drugs, really. Viator was jacked, and I really suspect Mister 4 Hours was jacked as well...after all, why train for 4 months naturally when you can get the same results if you train for 4 weeks using drugs, and all that?

You cannot base an entire lifetime of working out on one variable. Even the hardcore HIT guys, like Ken Leistner, do a lot of "fun" shit like flipping tires, pushing cars, log presses, and stuff like that, not just grinding out a quick circuit to failure on a list of exercises.

kevin mckay
05-11-2007, 10:56 AM
They left out the part involving the implanted rhinoceros pituitary gland :)

Justin Chebahtah
11-24-2008, 09:16 AM
Sam,

Same boat here, have always been a skinnier guy. Been doing starting strength for about 3 months and have gone from 160 to 180 @ 6'2". I'm still a novice but my little piece of advice will be that even though you might think you're eating "a ton"...you're probably not. For the first 2 weeks I felt like I was over-eating but after logging all my food intake on fitday...I realized I still had to cram down more food. Once I got to the point...I found a way to stuff more food down. I guess my point is to make sure you are EATING.

....I'll have to put together a simple mass site....it involves a fork and heavy weights....

Almost made me spit on the computer screen....funny stuff.

Mike ODonnell
11-24-2008, 12:05 PM
This thread has been dead for a while....but this gem can never be said enough...

The funny thing is that a middle of the road volume program is, in general, much better for the genuine hardgainer than the low volume HIT workouts.

Taking things to failure, much less every damn set to failure, is a recipe for disaster for the genuine hardgainer.

Most of them need to follow an exercise prescription of moderate volume, moderate load, leave a rep or two in the tank, compound movements coupled with adequate nutrition, for a long time...months, maybe years, to get to a nice level of muscular size.

Gavin Harrison
12-19-2008, 11:25 PM
This thread made me think of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggiC8F7z2Ls (wfs).

Derek Simonds
12-20-2008, 04:39 AM
You want the secret? Milk and Dbol

Well I guess that just about covers it.